Users Currently Browsing This Topic:
0 Members

Author Topic: On The Trail Of Delusion  (Read 88483 times)

Offline Tom Scully

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1216
Re: Kerry Thornley writes Sylvia Meagher - and her reply!
« Reply #64 on: December 07, 2020, 12:36:00 AM »
Advertisement
Fred, this is the opinion that inspired my search to confirm or debunk Garrison. The late Tom Purvis also described the importance in New Orleans society of the two leading secret societies, Rex and Comus.

"Rex" by Thomas H. Purvis :
https://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/4471-rex/

Quote
https://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/5238-jim-garrison-and-oliver-stone/page/13/?tab=comments#comment-44704
Thomas H. Purvis, Posted 10 November 2005
Well, one can rest assured that I am not an "assassination buff", and being considerably more familiar with New Orleans than most others who are posting here, I can assure you that Garrison was a shrewd as well as politically knowledgeable individual.

Therefore, for him to sacrifice his own personal integrity with the Clay Shaw "Circus & Sideshow", was not an act of ignorance on his part.

Therefore, if it were not an act of ignorance, then it was obviously a deliberate "act".

In addition to this, one must also consider that Garrison was formerly one of "Hoover's" boys, and for him to give a performance which was as inept as was the Clay Shaw trial, also meant that it would bring some discredit to the "Hoover" family.

Therefore, whatever political entity Garrison was dancing to the tune of, he obviously considered it to be far more critical to his long term livelihood than was the risk of offending JEH, or of even bring completely false charges against Clay Shaw.

Certainly brings to mind such items as the "Spruce Goose" and the "Glomar Explorer".

Fred, Weissberg was charmed by Jesse Core, who seemed to be everywhere, from Core's wife being close to Edwin Walker's future landlord, and to Mac Wallace through the student protest group he led, to being Clay Shaw's confidant and the PR promoter of Garrison's campaign for NOLA D.A., as well as making sure Oswald was receiving media and FBI attention for distributing "Fair Play" pamphlets. Core and David Baldwin, Garrison's wife's godfather and first cousin, were both CIA serving together in India and former WWII fighter pilots, as well as postwar "cover" as journalists, before working back to back for Clay Shaw, Jesse Core taking the Trade Mart PR job after Baldwin accepted a position as AMA spokesman.

Weissberg:


Weissberg claimed the NOLA print shop owner and his assistant agreed after seeing a photo of Thornley, that it was Thornley who had picked up an order of "Fair Play" pamphlets, and not Oswald.

Thornley :


Thornley :


Clint Bolton, briefly at Princeton, had worked for AP in India. Dulles interrupted his Princeton stodies to spend a year in India. Dulles entered Princeton in the same year as Frank Churchward, the man responsible for sending Willard Robertson from CT to LA. Robertson was a 39 year old father of two with no clear career path, mens clothing retail sales in 1940, restaurant and bar manager near Yale campus, in early 1940s, when Churchward hired Robertson first as a factory worker and then promoted him as superintendent of manufacturing, under the eye of Naval procurement and ONI. Frank Churchward offered the Navy proprietary welding tech. Postwar, Churchward shifted production to Steel Kraft boats, a mix of foreign defense models and civilian boating lines, sending Robertson to NOLA to establish a southern sales branch. Robertson soon divorced and remarried to his 20+ years younger secretary, Marie Gossum, daughter of Ernest, manager of NOLA CC since 1925. Ernest Gossum served on Country Club committees with, and in golf tournaments with William P Burke. Both Burke and Lloyd Ray's obits include their membership at New Orleans Country Club, and Ray chose that club for a 1967 meeting with CIA's counsel, in reaction to Garrison's "inquiry".



Willard Robertson leased a Trade Mart office in the mid 1950s to promote a line of imported compact cars.

Nicholas B Lemann bashed Garrison in thecrimson at Harvard, as early as in 1973, and wrote the late 1990 GQ article that Stone and Zachary Sklar spent part of their book rebutting, and Perry Russo sued GQ publisher Conde Nast, in response to.

Lemann's first job, post Harvard, was at the desk next to Tom Bethel's at Washington Monthly.
Lemann's father, Thomas, brother of accused Garrison "CIA paymaster" Stephen B Lemann, step-brothers of David Baldwin's wife, Mildred Lyons Lemann.
Quote
https://www.aei.org/articles/new-orleans-mon-amour/
Tom Bethell
March 23, 2007
....Later, I would go uptown to see Brown, who is a part-owner of the Maple Leaf Bar, a prominent venue for live music. But as a preliminary step I paid a call on an old acquaintance, Thomas B. Lemann , a lawyer well known to the city’s establishment. He lives not far from Audubon Park in an area that was not flooded. Although he recently turned 80, he still practices law and nowadays has an office on the 50th floor of One Shell Square on Poydras Street.

Tommy Lemann, as he is called by nearly everyone, is a colorful figure with the air of a mandarin. He is married to the New Orleans novelist Sheila Bosworth, and he’s a great collector of facts on obscure topics—Scottish glens, these days.....

No disclaimer about working for Garrison and with Garrison basher and Thomas Lemann's son, Nicholas, or that Garrison had, in a letter to the FCC chairman, accused WDSU outside counsel of distributing funds for the CIA to pay lawyers to shield witnesses from Garrison's "inquiry". Both WDSU outside counsel, Stephen B Lemann, and his brother, Thomas were :




The best man in the 1927 of William P Burke was the close friend of USMC general Philip G Strong.
Both were well acquainted at Hill School in Pottstown with





Smartest two "in the room."



William P Burke's daughter, Constance Ivy, was "Queen of Comus" it is included on her findagrave page.:




Quote
Princeton Alumni Weekly - Volume 55
WALKER B. SPENCER JR . '22 It was absolutely ... B. He roomed with Phil Strong his first two years , was on the crew squad and a member of Charter . Associated with the law firm ...

Not only did Philip G Strong attend Hill School with CD Jackson and Jackson's best friend, Parker-Lloyd Smith,
during a seemingly ill timed. 1936 "walking tour" of Europe and Russia, then USMC captain Strong toured Berlin
with the 1963 managing editor of Time magazine.:

Quote
https://www.tor.com/2013/08/09/toby-barlow-cia-agent-babayaga/
I Never Knew My Grandfather, Only What He Pretended to Be ...
Aug 9, 2013 — His name is Philip Strong and he has boarded here in the Hamburg ... Although I possess a volume of his letters from this trip, letters I have ...
....What is Philip Strong doing here? Maybe it is a bit of self-motivated opportunism. Perhaps he senses history coming and is cleverly placing himself squarely in its path.

Once they arrive in Berlin, Leko will strike up an acquaintance with a fellow name Otto Fuerbringer. This Otto fellow knows Berlin well so they all start travelling around town together. Otto is a Kansas City reporter, tall and handsome, my grandfather reports, a Harvard man. One day he will become the managing editor of Time Magazine. These are the sorts of people idly wandering around Hitler’s Germany in 1937, visiting all the various art museums, gardens and zoos (“the keeper who did the animal feeding was a born comedian.”)...



General Philip G Strong, CIA Science Officer in 1954, has been nicknamed, "father of the U2"!
https://www.archives.gov/files/declassification/iscap/pdf/2014-004-doc01.pdf
Afterward Kelly Johnson noted that the civilian officials were very ... cupied when Philip Strong approached him in mid-May 1954 with the concept of tl1e proposed ... offer on behalf of General Chim1g's father, Generalissimo Chiang. Kai-shek.
« Last Edit: December 07, 2020, 01:00:35 AM by Tom Scully »

JFK Assassination Forum

Re: Kerry Thornley writes Sylvia Meagher - and her reply!
« Reply #64 on: December 07, 2020, 12:36:00 AM »


Offline Mark A. Oblazney

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 455
Re: Kerry Thornley writes Sylvia Meagher - and her reply!
« Reply #65 on: December 07, 2020, 12:18:44 PM »
Fred, this is the opinion that inspired my search to confirm or debunk Garrison. The late Tom Purvis also described the importance in New Orleans society of the two leading secret societies, Rex and Comus.

"Rex" by Thomas H. Purvis :
https://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/4471-rex/

Fred, Weissberg was charmed by Jesse Core, who seemed to be everywhere, from Core's wife being close to Edwin Walker's future landlord, and to Mac Wallace through the student protest group he led, to being Clay Shaw's confidant and the PR promoter of Garrison's campaign for NOLA D.A., as well as making sure Oswald was receiving media and FBI attention for distributing "Fair Play" pamphlets. Core and David Baldwin, Garrison's wife's godfather and first cousin, were both CIA serving together in India and former WWII fighter pilots, as well as postwar "cover" as journalists, before working back to back for Clay Shaw, Jesse Core taking the Trade Mart PR job after Baldwin accepted a position as AMA spokesman.

Weissberg:


Weissberg claimed the NOLA print shop owner and his assistant agreed after seeing a photo of Thornley, that it was Thornley who had picked up an order of "Fair Play" pamphlets, and not Oswald.

Thornley :


Thornley :


Clint Bolton, briefly at Princeton, had worked for AP in India. Dulles interrupted his Princeton stodies to spend a year in India. Dulles entered Princeton in the same year as Frank Churchward, the man responsible for sending Willard Robertson from CT to LA. Robertson was a 39 year old father of two with no clear career path, mens clothing retail sales in 1940, restaurant and bar manager near Yale campus, in early 1940s, when Churchward hired Robertson first as a factory worker and then promoted him as superintendent of manufacturing, under the eye of Naval procurement and ONI. Frank Churchward offered the Navy proprietary welding tech. Postwar, Churchward shifted production to Steel Kraft boats, a mix of foreign defense models and civilian boating lines, sending Robertson to NOLA to establish a southern sales branch. Robertson soon divorced and remarried to his 20+ years younger secretary, Marie Gossum, daughter of Ernest, manager of NOLA CC since 1925. Ernest Gossum served on Country Club committees with, and in golf tournaments with William P Burke. Both Burke and Lloyd Ray's obits include their membership at New Orleans Country Club, and Ray chose that club for a 1967 meeting with CIA's counsel, in reaction to Garrison's "inquiry".



Willard Robertson leased a Trade Mart office in the mid 1950s to promote a line of imported compact cars.

Nicholas B Lemann bashed Garrison in thecrimson at Harvard, as early as in 1973, and wrote the late 1990 GQ article that Stone and Zachary Sklar spent part of their book rebutting, and Perry Russo sued GQ publisher Conde Nast, in response to.

Lemann's first job, post Harvard, was at the desk next to Tom Bethel's at Washington Monthly.
Lemann's father, Thomas, brother of accused Garrison "CIA paymaster" Stephen B Lemann, step-brothers of David Baldwin's wife, Mildred Lyons Lemann.
No disclaimer about working for Garrison and with Garrison basher and Thomas Lemann's son, Nicholas, or that Garrison had, in a letter to the FCC chairman, accused WDSU outside counsel of distributing funds for the CIA to pay lawyers to shield witnesses from Garrison's "inquiry". Both WDSU outside counsel, Stephen B Lemann, and his brother, Thomas were :




The best man in the 1927 of William P Burke was the close friend of USMC general Philip G Strong.
Both were well acquainted at Hill School in Pottstown with





Smartest two "in the room."



William P Burke's daughter, Constance Ivy, was "Queen of Comus" it is included on her findagrave page.:




Not only did Philip G Strong attend Hill School with CD Jackson and Jackson's best friend, Parker-Lloyd Smith,
during a seemingly ill timed. 1936 "walking tour" of Europe and Russia, then USMC captain Strong toured Berlin
with the 1963 managing editor of Time magazine.:



General Philip G Strong, CIA Science Officer in 1954, has been nicknamed, "father of the U2"!
https://www.archives.gov/files/declassification/iscap/pdf/2014-004-doc01.pdf
Afterward Kelly Johnson noted that the civilian officials were very ... cupied when Philip Strong approached him in mid-May 1954 with the concept of tl1e proposed ... offer on behalf of General Chim1g's father, Generalissimo Chiang. Kai-shek.

Tom Purvis was the sh*t, and so are you, Tom.  The anomaly that delivers facts.  Thank you, sir+

Offline Walt Cakebread

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7322
Re: Kerry Thornley writes Sylvia Meagher - and her reply!
« Reply #66 on: December 07, 2020, 03:45:16 PM »
Meagher thought the Dallas Police was largely behind the assassination and cover-up. Folks in the Northeast (Meagher was a New Yorker) had a low regard for Texas officials. Meagher was a Liberal who would readily assume Oswald was targeted because he had been in Russia, and that part of him being presented as the assassin was to discredit the left.

The Yankee and Cowboy War: Conspiracies from Dallas to Watergate by Carl Oglesby was a pretty good book. He basically split the powerful into two camps: Yankee (Northeast) and Cowboys (Texas and surroundings). Culturally, it's like today's Blue and Red States.


Meagher thought the Dallas Police was largely behind the assassination and cover-up.

I would agree with that ....  I think it's obvious.  However.... they wouldn't even have attempted the murder if they weren't certain that Hoover had their back.

JFK Assassination Forum

Re: Kerry Thornley writes Sylvia Meagher - and her reply!
« Reply #66 on: December 07, 2020, 03:45:16 PM »


Offline Fred Litwin

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 356
Was Oswald's Alias a Code for a Jack Ruby Stripper?
« Reply #67 on: December 11, 2020, 02:52:44 PM »
Was Oswald's Alias a Code for a Ruby Stripper?

OK, this story is just too ridiculous to believe. It demonstrates the gullibility of Jim Garrison. Sylvia Meagher was not impressed.

https://www.onthetrailofdelusion.com/blog

Online John Iacoletti

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10895
Re: Was Oswald's Alias a Code for a Jack Ruby Stripper?
« Reply #68 on: December 11, 2020, 06:49:01 PM »
“Oswald’s alias”. LOL.

JFK Assassination Forum

Re: Was Oswald's Alias a Code for a Jack Ruby Stripper?
« Reply #68 on: December 11, 2020, 06:49:01 PM »


Offline Michael T. Griffith

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 929
Re: Two New Unpublished Sylvia Meagher Articles
« Reply #69 on: December 31, 2020, 05:38:00 PM »
This observation by Meagher needs to be underscored: "I find it hard to believe that three would-be assassins discussed the logistics of an assassination in the presence of a casual acquaintance and non-participant in their plot." Even worse, according to Garrison's allegations it wasn't just one "casual acquaintance", i.e., Perry Russo, it was several, e.g., Charles Speisel and according to Spiesel, "ten or eleven" men.

I can totally see that happening under the circumstances. Sometimes criminals get cocky and arrogant and run their mouths when you would not expect them to utter a word.

To repeat: according to Garrison, Oswald, Ferrie and Shaw plotted the assassination of JFK at a party while others listened in. Then, somehow (Garrison claimed later), they got the FBI, Dallas Police Department, CIA, Secret Service and assorted others to join in with this plot.

That is a rather severe distortion of what Garrison claimed.


Online Steve M. Galbraith

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1537
Re: Two New Unpublished Sylvia Meagher Articles
« Reply #70 on: December 31, 2020, 06:07:34 PM »
I can totally see that happening under the circumstances. Sometimes criminals get cocky and arrogant and run their mouths when you would not expect them to utter a word.

That is a rather severe distortion of what Garrison claimed.

Read Garrison's books "Heritage of Stone" or his earlier work "On the Trail of the Assassins" for his fuller description of who he said was behind the assassination. Briefly, Garrison claimed in both works that major elements and figures of and inside the government, e.g., CIA, Pentagon, LBJ, Hoover along with the Dallas Police Department murdered JFK (Ruby shot Oswald to hide his (Ruby's) role in the assassination). And that the plot (somehow) originated or had its origins in the Shaw/Oswald/Ferrie meeting; although this meeting essentially disappears as he gets deeper and deeper into explaining who carried out the assassination. It's a bewildering story.

Why did they kill Kennedy? Garrison said that JFK was, inter alia, going to end the Vietnam War and dismantle the "warfare state" that secretly ran and runs the country. And it was essentially for those reasons that he was murdered, indeed had to be murdered. Garrison also claimed that RFK (!!) was covering up for the murder of the president. It's nearly impossible to caricature his claims.

Just read the final chapter in "Heritage of Stone" titled "War Machine." Here are just two quotes that aptly summarize his worldview:

"The assassination [of JFK] reduced the President of the United States to a transient official, a servant of the warfare conglomerate. His assignment is to speak as often as possible about the nation’s desire for peace, while he serves as a business agent in Congress for the military and their hardware manufacturers…

And this: [T]he military and intelligence power elite, which sponsored the assassination and which then initiated the Vietnam escalation, continues to retain covert control of the nation. It is all too apparent that this force in our government believes that violence is the ultimate solution to any problem. This is why the present period is a most dangerous one for America and for the world…."

An online version of "Heritage" can be read here: https://www.ratical.org/ratville/JFK/HeritageOfStone/index.html

Oliver Stone's movie JFK greatly misrepresents what Garrison claimed in the Shaw trial. In the trial Garrison didn't make the above claims. But later in the above two mentioned books he made this grand conspiracy argument.

As to the first point: No, I can't see people seriously plotting to murder the president - and then doing so (according to Garrison) - while a group of strangers were around and able to listen to their discussion of their plan. If they were just "spit balling" things, yes; but if they were serious, as again Garrison claimed, then I can't.
« Last Edit: December 31, 2020, 11:03:20 PM by Steve M. Galbraith »

Offline Fred Litwin

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 356
On The Trail Of Delusion
« Reply #71 on: January 07, 2021, 02:24:09 PM »
Jim Garrison Takes the Stand...

In January of 1971, Judge Herbert Christenberry held three days of hearings regarding Garrison's perjury charges against Clay Shaw. Jim Garrison was called to the stand and was examined by Clay Shaw's attorneys.

Today, I post excerpts from his testimony.

https://www.onthetrailofdelusion.com/blog

JFK Assassination Forum

On The Trail Of Delusion
« Reply #71 on: January 07, 2021, 02:24:09 PM »