The Bus Stop Farce

[Charles Collins]

Talk about CT's grasping at straws!   

This is a really shallow and silly attempt to tie Lee Oswald to the staged "crime scene".....  I'd bet that you also believe the moon could be made of cheddar cheese.

This hypothesis is just an interesting possibility. That’s all it is.

[Richard Smith]

'Everything else was hearsay'
>>> And McDonald saw/said

Mr. BALL. I mean, were Oswald and McDonald struggling together?
Mr. CARROLL. Yes, sir; and then when I got up close enough, I saw a pistol pointing at me so I reached and grabbed the pistol and jerked the pistol away and stuck it in my belt, and then I grabbed Oswald.

Mr. CARROLL. Like - he said he hadn't done anything except, well, he said, "I had a pistol, and that's all I've done - just carry a pistol."


Mr. HILL. Came down the north stairway, and the commotion would have been to my right or just south of the center of the theatre near the back. Went over, and as I ran to them I saw some officers struggling with a white male.
I reached out and grabbed the left arm of the suspect, and just before I got to him I heard somebody yell, "Look out, he's got a gun."

Mr. BELIN. When you saw Oswald's hand by his belt, which hand did you see then?
Mr. WALKER. He had ahold of the handle of it.
Mr. BELIN. Handle of what?
Mr. WALKER. The revolver.
Mr. BELIN. Was there a revolver there?
Mr. WALKER. Yes; there was.

Mr. BALL - Did you feel the pistol?
Mr. McDONALD - Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL - Which hand was--was his right hand or his left hand on the pistol?
Mr. McDONALD - His right hand was on the pistol.
Mr. BALL - And which of your hands?
Mr. McDONALD - My left hand, at this point.
Mr. BALL - And had he withdrawn the pistol
Mr. McDONALD - He was drawing it as I put my hand.
Mr. BALL - From his waist?
Mr. McDONALD - Yes, sir.

Mr. BALL. What happened then?
Mr. HAWKINS. They had a scuffle and I immediately ran to the location. Officer Hutson had come in the aisle behind Oswald and McDonald and Officer Walker had come in on the left-hand side and I came up in the front. I grabbed his left hand and then immediately took my handcuffs out and put them on his left hand and we brought his right arm around as soon as the gun had been removed and handcuffed his right arm with both hands behind his back.

Mr. HAWKINS. I remember seeing him standing beside Oswald, and when I arrived where they were, both of them were down in the seat--Oswald and McDonald had both fallen down into the seat, and very shortly after I got there, a gun was pulled, came out of Oswald's belt and was pulled across to their right, or toward the south aisle of the theatre.
Officer McDonald grabbed the pistol, and the best I can remember, Sergeant Hill, who had gotten there, said, "I've got the gun," and he took the gun and we handcuffed Oswald.

[Martin Weidmann]

Talk about CT's grasping at straws!   

This is a really shallow and silly attempt to tie Lee Oswald to the staged "crime scene".....  I'd bet that you also believe the moon could be made of cheddar cheese.

Nobody is grasping at straws here, Walt. Least of all CT's because what is being discussed is Oswald wearing a different shirt on Friday morning than the one he was arrested in.

In other words; there is a shirt Oswald had on in the morning for which no matching fibers are ever found at the sniper's nest and there is a shirt Oswald was arrested in, after changing his clothes, for which the FBI claims to have found matching fibers (whatever that exactly means) on the rifle found at the TSBD.

At best there's something very weird here.... at worst, well do the math.

[Richard Smith]

Nobody is grasping at straws here, Walt. Least of all CT's because what is being discussed is Oswald wearing a different shirt on Friday morning than the one he was arrested in.

In other words; there is a shirt Oswald had on in the morning for which no matching fibers are ever found at the sniper's nest and there is a shirt Oswald was arrested in, after changing his clothes, for which the FBI claims to have found matching fibers (whatever that exactly means) on the rifle found at the TSBD.

At best there's something very weird here.... at worst, well do the math.

Bledsoe indicated that the shirt Oswald was wearing on the bus just after the assassination had the hole in it and the bus transfer was found in the pocket of that shirt.  So the arrest shirt is most likely the same one that he had on that morning.  Regardless, if the fibers come from Oswald's shirt - even if you don't think it was he one he wore that morning - it still links him to the rifle.  In that scenario, they just got on his rifle at some earlier time.  The importance is that - like all evidence in this case - it points to Oswald.  But the shirt fibers are just a cherry on top of Oswald's sundae of guilt.  He left his rifle at the murder scene.  He lied about owing the rifle and offered no explanation for it to have been found in the TSBD.  He fled the scene.  Murdered a cop within an hour. That cooks his goose a thousand times over without the fibers.  All the other evidence against him just confirms the obvious.

[John Iacoletti]

Mr. BELIN. Do you know whose hand was on the gun when you saw it pointed in your direction?
Mr. CARROLL. No; I do not.

C.T. Walker report to Curry (12/2/63):
"Officer McDonald started grappling with the suspect and Officer Hutson and I ran toward them.  Officer Hutson reached over from the seat behind the suspect and grabbed him around the neck.  I reached and grabbed the suspect's left arm.  I do not know where Officer Ray Hawkins came from, but he was to my left arm in front of the suspect, also attempting to hold him.  I could see Officer McDonald and the suspect grappling over the gun.  The suspect had his right hand on it and so did Officer McDonald.  The gun was being waved around approximately waist high."

Walker ran towards them after the "grappling" started and saw them both with their hands on a gun.  Nothing about seeing it in his waistband before McDonald started scuffling with him.

[John Iacoletti]

Regardless, if the fibers come from Oswald's shirt - even if you don't think it was he one he wore that morning - it still links him to the rifle.

It's not possible to link the fibers to any specific shirt.

But the shirt fibers are just a cherry on top of Oswald's sundae of guilt.

No, they are yet another example of Nutter special-pleading.

  He left his rifle at the murder scene.

Unproven.

  He lied about owing the rifle and offered no explanation for it to have been found in the TSBD.

Unproven.

  He fled the scene.

Unproven.

  Murdered a cop within an hour.

Unproven.

That cooks his goose a thousand times over without the fibers.  All the other evidence against him just confirms the obvious.

Anyone can make a series of allegations.  Like Donald Trump and his "voter fraud".  That doesn't constitute "evidence" that the allegations are true.

[Martin Weidmann]

Bledsoe indicated that the shirt Oswald was wearing on the bus just after the assassination had the hole in it and the bus transfer was found in the pocket of that shirt.  So the arrest shirt is most likely the same one that he had on that morning.  Regardless, if the fibers come from Oswald's shirt - even if you don't think it was he one he wore that morning - it still links him to the rifle.  In that scenario, they just got on his rifle at some earlier time.  The importance is that - like all evidence in this case - it points to Oswald.  But the shirt fibers are just a cherry on top of Oswald's sundae of guilt.  He left his rifle at the murder scene.  He lied about owing the rifle and offered no explanation for it to have been found in the TSBD.  He fled the scene.  Murdered a cop within an hour. That cooks his goose a thousand times over without the fibers.  All the other evidence against him just confirms the obvious.

Bledsoe indicated that the shirt Oswald was wearing on the bus just after the assassination had the hole in it and the bus transfer was found in the pocket of that shirt.  So the arrest shirt is most likely the same one that he had on that morning.

Trust you to jump to the wrong conclusion based on speculation rather than an examination of the evidence.

Photo's of Oswald's arrest shirt, taken on Friday, prior to the shirt being sent to the FBI, do not show a hole. Bledsoe did not indicate that the shirt Oswald was wearing on the bus was the arrest shirt. She recognized the shirt from when the FBI brought it to her house and showed it to her, prior to her testimony. As for the bus transfer, that wasn't (allegedly) found in the pocket of Oswald's arrest shirt until hours after the arrest, just like the extra bullets were. The problem with that is that Oswald was already searched when he was arrested. It's standard operating procedure! So why were those items not found at that time?

Regardless, if the fibers come from Oswald's shirt - even if you don't think it was he one he wore that morning - it still links him to the rifle.

So what? The Klein's transaction and the BY photos also linked him to the rifle. That doesn't mean he fired it, if the rifle was fired at all on 11/22/63.

In that scenario, they just got on his rifle at some earlier time.  The importance is that - like all evidence in this case - it points to Oswald.  But the shirt fibers are just a cherry on top of Oswald's sundae of guilt.  He left his rifle at the murder scene.

Wrong again. A rifle that can be linked to Oswald (in some highly dubious ways) was left at the TSBD. You have no evidence whatsoever, except of course your usual assumptions and speculations, that Oswald brought it into the building or that it was him who left it there. Appearances can be, and often are, deceiving. Yet you keep falling for them all the time.

He lied about owing the rifle and offered no explanation for it to have been found in the TSBD

Assumes "facts" not in evidence. All the reports of the interrogators show is that, at best, he was only asked if he owned a rifle. He wasn't shown the MC rifle, nor the revolver, and they never asked him if he left a rifle at the TSBD, and thus never gave him an opportunity to explain how the MC rifle could have ended up at the TSBD

He fled the scene. 

A mere assumption and thus a misrepresentation of the available evidence. If you flee a scene of a crime, you do not offer your taxi to an old lady, nor do you go walking in a residential area.

Murdered a cop within an hour.

Another highly questionable assumption. I am well aware that you never let evidence get in the way of your opinions, but you really need to stop jumping to conclusions that are not supported by the evidence.

That cooks his goose a thousand times over without the fibers.  All the other evidence against him just confirms the obvious.


Nope, all your rhetoric shows is that you are obviously biased beyond help, unable to look at the evidence honestly and unwilling to even consider or discuss anything that does not match your predetermined opinion.

[Bill Chapman]

Where do you lot get the idea that the tear/hole was in the left sleeve?

Mrs. BLEDSOE - Hole in his sleeve right here [indicating].
Mr. BALL - Which is the elbow of the sleeve? That is, you pointed to
the elbow?
Mrs. BLEDSOE - Well, it is.
Mr. BALL - And that would be which elbow, right or left elbow?
Mrs. BLEDSOE - Right.



The hole might have increased size during the TT fisticuffs