The Bus Stop Farce

[Martin Weidmann]

Waiting for evidence of me being dishonest..

Easy. Look at your posting history. You even lie about not being dishonest.

[Charles Collins]

It should be stressed that the recording contains no exact record of “real time.”

This alone makes everything that follows questionable.

What it does contain is a sequence of events whose relationship to one another can be measured. For example, a time check of 1:19 p.m. and a check of 1:22 p.m. do not necessarily relate to “real time,” yet a stop watch review of the tapes show that the two instances did occur three minutes apart.

I understand the logic of what he is saying, but it is meaningless if he is still using the times called out by the dispatcher, because that ignores completely what Bowles told the HSCA about the time stamps not being reliable to determine "real time".

And, even worse, the transcripts show that no times were called between 12.55 and 1.04. After that the next time call is 1.07 and then between 1.12 and 1.15 there were no time calls. Those are gaps of 9 minutes, 3 minutes and 3 minutes respectively. And then there is the problem that the actual audio recordings demonstrate clearly that there was no continuous recording between 12.55 and 1.15 and there also is no event during that period that could pin point an exact time, so there is now way of knowing where to start the stopwatch Myers claimed to have used.

Myers concluded that Tippit was killed at 1.14. If the starting time of the dictabelt recording was off by three minutes, which IMO opinion, given what Bowles told the HSCA is not beyond being impossible, the real time could have easily be 1.11 and the DPD recordings would still match up.

By applying a stop watch and some mathematics to the channel one recordings, and comparing the resulting sequence of events with the eyewitness accounts, a reasonably accurate reconstruction of the Tippit murder and its aftermath was possible. 


There is absolutely no way that Myers could have compared the DPD recordings with the eyewitness accounts, simply because those eyewitness account do not match with the transcripts.

But, and I am going out on a limb here, if you are prepared to look at the factual information honestly, I am willing to walk you through the "comparision" of the DPD transcripts with the eyewitness accounts.

But, and I am going out on a limb here, if you are prepared to look at the factual information honestly, I am willing to walk you through the "comparision" of the DPD transcripts with the eyewitness accounts.


I suggest that you contact Dale Myers with your proposal. You could even do a live in-person debate with him and charge for the privilege to view it online to pay for the expenses and might even make a profit. Who knows? I know who my bet would be on for the winner!

[Martin Weidmann]

But, and I am going out on a limb here, if you are prepared to look at the factual information honestly, I am willing to walk you through the "comparision" of the DPD transcripts with the eyewitness accounts.

I actually had some hope that Charles Collins would accept my offer, but it seems that was in vain. So much for him wanting to know the truth. Oh well, maybe some other LN wants to play.....

Let's start with three witnesses at the Tippit scene by looking at how they relate to eachother.

I don't think it will be problem for anybody to accept that Markham was at 10th/Patton shortly before Tippit was killed. When she got to 10th street she stopped to let traffic pass and saw a man walking on the sidewalk on 10th street, walking east. She then saw a police car pull up and the killer talking to Tippit through the car window. She witnesses Tippit being shot and started to scream.

Obviously, Benavides was also there, sitting in his truck a little further down 10th street, watching the same event from the opposite site from Markham.

Next on the scene, at least as far as the time line is concerned, is Bowley who is probably coming from Marsalis and pulling up behind Benavides' truck,  When he arrives, Tippit has already been shot. Bowley gets out of his car, runs to Tippit to check and then uses the radio of Tippit's patrol car, after Benavides failed to get the radio to work. In his affidavit Bowley confirms these events.

"When I got there the first thing I did was try to help the officer. He appeared beyond help to me. A man was trying to use the radio in the squad car but stated he didn't know how to operate it. I know how and took the radio from him. I said, "Hello, operator. A police officer has been shot here."

and Benavides confirms it in his testimony;

Mr. BELIN - Where was the Policeman as he fell, as you saw him?
Mr. BENAVIDES - I saw him as he was falling. The door was about half way open, and he was right in front of the door, and just about in front of the fender. I would say he was between the door and the front headlight, about middleway when he started to fall.
Mr. BELIN - Did you notice where the gun of the policeman was?
Mr. BENAVIDES - The gun was in his hand and he was partially lying on his gun in his right hand. He was partially lying on his gun and on his hand, too.
Mr. BELIN - Then what did you do?
Mr. BENAVIDES - Then I don't know if I opened the car door back further than what it was or not, but anyway, I went in and pulled the radio and I mashed the button and told them that an officer had been shot, and I didn't get an answer, so I said it again, and this guy asked me whereabouts all of a sudden, and I said, on 10th Street. I couldn't remember where it was at at the time. So I looked up and I seen this number and I said 410 East 10th Street.
Mr. BELIN - You saw a number on the house then?
Mr. BENAVIDES - Yes.
Mr. BELIN - All right.
Mr. BENAVIDES - Then he started to--then I don't know what he said; but I put the radio back. I mean, the microphone back up, and this other guy was standing there, so I got up out of the car, and I don't know, I wasn't sure if he heard me, and the other guy sat down in the car.
Mr. BELIN - There was another passerby that stopped?
Mr. BENAVIDES - Yes, sir.

Next up is Callaway. He heard the shots, while standing on the porche of his office, and ran to Patton, where he saw a man with a revolver coming towards him. They meet up halfway down the block between Jefferson and 10th Street. Callaway then ran to 10th Street (in his testimony he estimated the distance at around 300 feet, but it's actually only about 200 feet) and saw what had happened. In his testimony, Callaway explained what happened next;

Mr. CALLAWAY. I saw a squad car, and by that time there was four or five people that had gathered, a couple of cars had stopped. Then I saw--I went on up to the squad car and saw the police officer lying in the street. I see he had been shot in the head. So the first thing I did, I ran over to the squad car. I didn't know whether anybody reported it or not. So I got on the police radio and called them, and told them a man had been shot, told them the location, I thought the officer was dead. They said we know about it, stay off the air, so I went back. This (the second) call is confirmed on the DPD radio transcripts.

So here's is the first question;

Does anybody dispute the sequence of events (i.e. the arrival of witnesses at the scene) provided above? If so, why?


The next thing we have to do is to determine is a time frame for all these events to take place. In other words, were the events minutes apart or did it happen in very quick succession? My point of view is that the best way to determine the most likely duration for these events is to look at Callaway's actions.

Bowley arrived on the scene about a minute (and probably less) after Tippit was shot. To make that determination, we have to go back to Benavides' testimony. He tells the WC that he waited in the truck until the killer was gone. He then got out of his truck, walked to Tippit and then tried in vain to get the radio to work. The distance from Tippit's car to the corner of 10th and Patton takes less than 20 seconds to walk, so if we double that to 40 seconds, we get Benavides trying to work the radio within a minute of the shooting and Bowley already being there to take over the radio from him. It is true that Benavides said in his testimony that he waited for "a few minutes" before he got out of his truck, and it may very well it felt like minutes to him, but a preponderance of evidence, and in particular Callaway's testimony, makes that highly unlikely.

In his testimony Callaway said he was standing on the front porch of his office at 501 East Jefferson when he heard the shots.
Balls shows him a photo of a reconstruction and asks;

Mr. BALL. Did you attempt to stand in the same place you were at the time?
Mr. CALLAWAY. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. Where you were standing November 22d around 1 o'clock or so?
Mr. CALLAWAY. Yes, sir.

Callaway then explains that he heard 5 pistol shots and then ran to the sidewalk on Patton. He clearly sees a cab parked down Patton and the driver next to it. Then he sees a man cutting from one side of the street to the other and running towards him. WC exhibits CE 537 and CE 539 show were Callway was when he hollered at the man; "Hey, man, what the hell is going on?" After the encounter Callaway ran "a good hard run, from here down around the corner." The distance was roughly half a block or approximently 200 feet. As the average walking distance per foot is roughly 325 feet per minute, it would have taken Callaway, who said he was running, substantially less than a minute to cover the distance.

IMO the best way to determine the time between the shots and Callaway's arrival at the scene is by looking at the interaction between Tippit's killer and Callaway. After shooting Tippit, the killer - according to Markham - did not run, but instead slowed down a moment before cutting through the garden of the Davis sisters and cutting Patton Ave to the sidewalk on the opposite side. From there, he only had to cover some 200 feet to get to the encounter Callaway. So, the total time between the shots and the arrival of Callaway can reasonabbly correctly be calculated by adding up the various times. So, let's say 20 seconds after the shots for the killer to get from Tippit's car to Patton and another 20 seconds for him to cover the 200 feet to get to Callaway. Add on another 10 or 15 seconds for the exchange between Callaway and the killer and another 20, maybe 30 seconds for Callaway to cover the distance to get to the scene. That makes a total of 20 + 20 + 15 + 30 = 85 seconds.

So, question number 2 is;

I would argue that the entire sequence of events between Callaway hearing the shots and his arrival at the scene would have taken no more than 90 seconds to maximum 2 minutes. Does anybody disagree and why?

We'll continue the game after an LN has shown himself to be honest enough to actually simply answer the two questions.

[Martin Weidmann]

But, and I am going out on a limb here, if you are prepared to look at the factual information honestly, I am willing to walk you through the "comparision" of the DPD transcripts with the eyewitness accounts.

I suggest that you contact Dale Myers with your proposal. You could even do a live in-person debate with him and charge for the privilege to view it online to pay for the expenses and might even make a profit. Who knows? I know who my bet would be on for the winner!

Yeah, that's what I thought. When it comes right down to it you chicken out and run to mommy (or in this case Dale Myers). It just shows how little confidence you actually have in the strenght of your case.

I have no reason to contact Dale Myers or (unlike him) make money of this murder. Instead, what you could have done is answer my questions with quotes from your bible... oh I'm sorry, I meant his book. But perhaps you don't trust that book enough to rely on it either..... could that be?

[John Iacoletti]

Memory is fallible.

Exactly.

[John Iacoletti]

He could not have just as easily used 12:28 or 12:31. The time he used appears to be derived as a close approximation of a time that is based on the first shot occurring at approximately 12:30:55

Where did you get that idea? Bowles clearly states that his zero-base time was arbitrary. He says nothing about when the shots occurred with regard to the accuracy of the clocks, and the shots (at least in his opinion) are not audible on the recording.

There are a lot of things that LN-ers claim “general consensus” on that are not demonstrable.

[John Iacoletti]

Let me catch you up: Oswald was seen wearing a jacket @Tippit. An if-guilty Oswald would not want to be wearing, in the line-up, the same clothing he was seen wearing @Tippit.

Thus, no request (unless you can prove otherwise) by Oswald for his jacket.

Well?

Well what? Your speculation about what Oswald would want is relevant how?

As if you could catch anybody up on anything. You can’t even keep people’s names straight.

[John Iacoletti]

Yeah, that's what I thought. When it comes right down to it you chicken out and run to mommy (or in this case Dale Myers).

I’ve engaged with Myers on Facebook. It’s a waste of time. He doesn’t ever admit to being wrong, even when he clearly is, and insults people who dare to disagree with him. Much like most of the LNers here.