Mexico City Tape - Does this sound like LHOs voice?

[Gerry Down]

On the night of Nov 22nd 1963 Hoover was told by his FBI agents in Dallas that the voice on the Mexico city tape they had received did not match Oswalds voice.

But could it be that Oswalds voice just sounds weird on tape compared to hearing him speak on film or in person? Check out the following odd recordings of Oswalds voice taken in Minsk that to me sound nothing like Oswald (especially the first recording):

24 minutes and 28 minutes:

[Martin Weidmann]

On the night of Nov 22nd 1963 Hoover was told by his FBI agents in Dallas that the voice on the Mexico city tape they had received did not match Oswalds voice.

But could it be that Oswalds voice just sounds weird on tape compared to hearing him speak on film or in person? Check out the following odd recordings of Oswalds voice taken in Minsk that to me sound nothing like Oswald (especially the first recording):

24 minutes and 28 minutes:

I have heard that segment before. It is indeed Oswald, but they are playing the recording at the wrong speed. Way too slow.

[Gerry Down]

I have heard that segment before. It is indeed Oswald, but they are playing the recording at the wrong speed. Way too slow.

I know its Oswald but it just doesn't sound like him. I'm not sure about the speed, it might be that Oswald is speaking slow in order to be dramatic (as he is reading Shakespeare). But he might also have been speaking slow on the phone in Mexico as he was trying to communicate in Russian which he might not be used to doing over the phone.

[Steve M. Galbraith]

On the night of Nov 22nd 1963 Hoover was told by his FBI agents in Dallas that the voice on the Mexico city tape they had received did not match Oswalds voice.

But could it be that Oswalds voice just sounds weird on tape compared to hearing him speak on film or in person? Check out the following odd recordings of Oswalds voice taken in Minsk that to me sound nothing like Oswald (especially the first recording):

Hoover was given incorrect information, misinformation that was later corrected in followup messages to him. The FBI agents in Dallas testified that they heard no tapes of any phone calls (see the Lopez Report of the HSCA for details). That's because there were no tapes sent to Dallas only transcripts of two phone calls.

Here's an excerpt from the HSCA report:

"[Dallas Special Agent in Charge Gordon] Shanklin stated in a committee interview that no recording was ever received by FBI officials in Dallas. Moreover, former FBI Special Agents James Hosty, John W. Fain, Burnett Tom Carter, and Arnold J. Brown, each of whom had conversed with Oswald at one time, informed the committee they had never listened to a recording of Oswald's voice.

Finally, on the basis of an extensive file review and detailed testimony by present and former CIA officials and employees, the committee determined that CIA headquarters never received a recording of Oswald's voice. The committee concluded, therefore, that the information in the November 23, 1963, letterhead memorandum was mistaken and did not provide a basis for concluding that there had been an Oswald imposter."

The evidence is that, as was the usual practice of the CIA, that the tapes of the calls were erased and used for future calls. There's been a dispute about this ever since. Some people - including David Slawson who worked for the Warren Commission and who investigated the Mexico City angle - said that the tapes were not erased. Slawson, who is still alive, has said both that he heard a tape (the quality was very poor) and that he didn't listen to any and that he only read transcripts. He's been all over the map on this. His colleague, the late William Coleman went with Slawson. He said that he didn't remember hearing any tapes but that if Slawson said so then he must have (this account is in the Philip Shenon book on the Warren Commission).

In any case, the FBI agents in Dallas, e.g., James Hosty et al. all testified that no tapes were played for them. Were there tapes that the CIA kept? I think not but the evidence is mixed.

BTW, I took out the link to the video to save space.

[Steve M. Galbraith]

Eldon Rudd was the FBI agent who took the material (photographs, transcripts) from the CIA in Mexico City and flew with it to Dallas. He wrote a memo on the morning of November 23 about what he had.

In it he wrote: "With regard to the tapes... the CIA has advised that tapes have been erased and are not available for review."

The entire memo is here:  https://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/fbi/105-3702/124-10230-10430/html/124-10230-10430_0002a.htm

[Gerry Down]

Hoover was given incorrect information, misinformation that was later corrected in followup messages to him. The FBI agents in Dallas testified that they heard no tapes of any phone calls (see the Lopez Report of the HSCA for details). That's because there were no tapes sent to Dallas only transcripts of two phone calls.

Here's an excerpt from the HSCA report:

"[Dallas Special Agent in Charge Gordon] Shanklin stated in a committee interview that no recording was ever received by FBI officials in Dallas. Moreover, former FBI Special Agents James Hosty, John W. Fain, Burnett Tom Carter, and Arnold J. Brown, each of whom had conversed with Oswald at one time, informed the committee they had never listened to a recording of Oswald's voice.

Finally, on the basis of an extensive file review and detailed testimony by present and former CIA officials and employees, the committee determined that CIA headquarters never received a recording of Oswald's voice. The committee concluded, therefore, that the information in the November 23, 1963, letterhead memorandum was mistaken and did not provide a basis for concluding that there had been an Oswald imposter."

The evidence is that, as was the usual practice of the CIA, that the tapes of the calls were erased and used for future calls. There's been a dispute about this ever since. Some people - including David Slawson who worked for the Warren Commission and who investigated the Mexico City angle - said that the tapes were not erased. Slawson, who is still alive, has said both that he heard a tape (the quality was very poor) and that he didn't listen to any and that he only read transcripts. He's been all over the map on this. His colleague, the late William Coleman went with Slawson. He said that he didn't remember hearing any tapes but that if Slawson said so then he must have (this account is in the Philip Shenon book on the Warren Commission).

In any case, the FBI agents in Dallas, e.g., James Hosty et al. all testified that no tapes were played for them. Were there tapes that the CIA kept? I think not but the evidence is mixed.

BTW, I took out the link to the video to save space.

Yes, but no one was claiming a tape with Oswalds voice was sent to Dallas. They were claiming a tape with someone elses voice (other than Oswald) was sent to Dallas.

Therefore any later denials that a tape with Oswalds voice was sent to Dallas in the hours after the assassination were technically correct.

[Jerry Freeman]

But he might also have been speaking slow on the phone in Mexico as he was trying to communicate in Russian which he might not be used to doing over the phone.

Prove that some recording was actually made in Mexico.
Oswald talked in Russian to his wife quite often over the phone didn't he?

[Steve M. Galbraith]

Yes, but no one was claiming a tape with Oswalds voice was sent to Dallas. They were claiming a tape with someone elses voice (other than Oswald) was sent to Dallas.

Therefore any later denials that a tape with Oswalds voice was sent to Dallas in the hours after the assassination were technically correct.

Right, but again as shown above: no tapes - none - were sent to Dallas. Shanklin, who was in charge in Dallas, said that no tapes were played for anyone. None of the agents in Dallas who heard Oswald talk after his arrest heard or were played any tapes of anyone: either a tape with Oswald's voice or a tape with an impostor's voice or a tape of a third/unkown person or a tape of anyone at all. That is because the CIA in Mexico City didn't give any any tapes to the FBI agent assigned to collect the material. Hoover was misinformed.

The CIA told the FBI agent (Rudd), who was sent to Mexico City to gather material and bring it to Dallas, that the tapes of the calls had been erased, as was the usual procedure. He brought with him, as he stated in the memo mentioned above and sent to the FBI, transcripts of calls (and some photos) but no tapes.

From FBI agent James Hosty's book, "Assignment Oswald": "Rudd, who was actually an FBI agent, had flown in on a two-seat Navy fighter to personally either deliver a surveillance photo and a phone intercept transcript...."

Note: A transcript not a tape or tapes.

Did the CIA in Mexico City retain these tapes of the calls? And not erase them? Again, I think not but there's pretty good evidence that they did. I see no reason why they would; which makes me think, along with the counter evidence, that they didn't.