Then went inside with the curtain rods

[Colin Crow]

Evidence and arguments that support the proposal that Oswald did not carry curtain rods to work ( a shout -out to David Von Pein from whose site I lifted most of the following points):

1) Oswald denied carrying curtain rods to work.

Why would Oswald deny this? If he'd carried curtain rods to work that day he could've told the authorities this and told them where to find them. No curtain rods were ever found in the TSBD. Nobody in the TSBD (other than Frazier) reported seeing Oswald with a long package.

2) Why did Oswald need the curtain rods on Thursday night?

What was the urgency for curtain rods on Thursday? Why not pick them up on Friday night and bring them with him on Monday? Breaking his routine that weekend to go to Irving on the Thursday supports the view he was picking up his rifle because he would need that on Friday. It's doubtful he urgently needed curtain rods on Friday.

3) Why did Oswald leave the curtain rods at work when he left?

If Oswald is just an innocent guy in no rush to get away, why didn't he take the curtain rods with him when he left on Friday? He's made a trip especially to collect them on Thursday then simply walked off without them on Friday. This is easily explained if there were never any curtain rods in the first place.

4) Ruth Paine testifies on more than one occasion that there were just two curtain rods (which she had wrapped and placed on the shelf herself). She testified that this was the case at the WC hearings and the 1986 assassination "docu-trial":

VINCENT BUGLIOSI -- "Now you, in fact, DID have some curtain rods in
the garage, is that correct?"
MRS. PAINE -- "In the garage...yes."
MR. BUGLIOSI -- "After the assassination, they were still there."
MRS. PAINE -- "Yes, that's right."

5) On 3/23/64 Counsel Jenner and Agent Howlett visit Ruth Paine. As part of a lengthy deposition they record taking the curtain rods from the Paine garage:

Mr. JENNER - Now, Mrs. Paine, one of the things we said we might see is a package that was in your garage containing curtain rods.
Mrs. PAINE - Yes--as you recall.
Mr. JENNER - You said you would leave that package in precisely the place wherever it was last week when you were in Washington, D.C., and have you touched it since you came home?
Mrs. PAINE - I have not touched it.
Mr. JENNER - And is it now in the place it was to the best of your recollection on November 21, 1963?
Mrs. PAINE - Yes.

6) There is, of course, Marina Oswald's extensive testimony outlining Oswald's ownership and use of a rifle. Of interest is the discovery of the rifle in the Paine garage:

Mr. RANKIN. Do you know whether or not the rifle was carried in the station wagon?
Mrs. OSWALD. Yes, it was.
Mr. RANKIN. Did you have anything to do with loading it in there?
Mrs. OSWALD. No. Lee was loading everything on because I was pregnant at the time. But I know that Lee loaded the rifle on.
Mr. RANKIN. Was the rifle carried in some kind of a case when you went back with Mrs. Paine?
Mrs. OSWALD. After we arrived, I tried to put the bed, the child's crib together, the metallic parts, and I looked for a certain part, and I came upon something wrapped in a blanket. I thought that was part of the bed, but it turned out to be the rifle.

Marina confirms it was the same blanket discovered during the initial search of the garage on the day of the assassination:

Mr. RANKIN. When was the last time that you had noticed the rifle before that day?
Mrs. OSWALD. I said that I saw--for the first and last time I saw the rifle about a week after I had come to Mrs. Paine.
But, as I said, the rifle was wrapped in a blanket, and I was sure when the police had come that the rifle was still in the blanket, because it was all rolled together. And, therefore, when they took the blanket and the rifle was not in it, I was very much surprised.

The blanket was folded, rolled and tied with twine to form a container for the rifle. When discovered, Guy Rose stated he could still see the outline of the rifle .
So the curtain rods were still in the garage but the rifle was gone.

7) When asked why she thought Oswald showed up on the Thursday, Marina stated it was because he wanted to "make his peace" with her. As with the curtain rod excuse given to Frazier, this could have waited until Friday. Marina reveals that Oswald wanted to reunite with Marina and the children as soon as possible:

"On that day, he suggested that we rent an apartment in Dallas. He said that
he was tired of living alone and perhaps the reason for my being so angry was the fact that we were not living together. That if I want to he would rent an apartment in Dallas tomorrow--that he didn't want me to remain with Ruth any longer, but wanted me to live with him in Dallas."

He would rent a apartment "tomorrow" if she wanted it. He could hardly bring his family back to the cubby-hole he was living in and it seems he wanted to find somewhere for the family to live together "tomorrow". Hardly a man in need of sprucing up his existing room with some curtain rods.

No need for curtain rods



This picture of Oswald's room clearly shows perfectly adequate curtain rods. Not to mention the venetian blinds on the windows:



He mentioned nothing about needing them to Ruth Paine, who he supposedly just took them from, Mrs Roberts, the housekeeper where he lived or the Johnsons, the owners of the house:

Mrs. JOHNSON. Yes, sir; and it had curtains and venetian blinds.
Mr. BALL. What kind of curtains did it have?
Mrs. JOHNSON. Well, it just had side drapes and panels.
Mr. BALL. Were the curtains on curtain rods?
Mrs. JOHNSON. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. They were in the room when he rented it?
Mrs. JOHNSON. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. Did Oswald ever talk to you about redecorating his room?
Mrs. JOHNSON. No sir; never mentioned it.
Mr. BALL. Did he ever talk to you about putting up new curtains in his room?
Mrs. JOHNSON. No, sir.


The only substantial evidence that Oswald had curtain rods with him are the testimonies of Frazier and his sister. That's it.

On one side is a large conspiracy involving Ruth Paine, Marina Oswald, Counsel Jenner, Agent Howlett and probably some of the officers who first searched the garage.
On the other side is a scared 19 year old boy who trusted his "friend".
I know which I find more likely.

To summarise. Just Frazier claiming the trip was to collect curtain rods. Such an unusual event that it was topic of discussion between brother and sister Thursday afternoon. Both forget about them.

As for the rifle, taken to NO wrapped in a blanket and noticed there by Marina. She saw the blanket a week after moving back to Dallas. The blanket looked the same with or without rifle.

[Colin Crow]

In Frazier's first statement he mentions that Oswald told him about the curtain rods.
How did Frazier know there were curtain rods available in the Paine household?
I have to assume it's because Oswald told him about them. Otherwise it's a wildly lucky guess.

What makes you think Oswald was aware of them prior to the 11th of November? Frazier did claim to have wrapped curtain rods in a previous job. If there were no rods in the Paine garage would that have changed events? Was Oswald fearful of Frazier's knowledge of the garage contents?

[Alan Ford]

"proof that two curtain rods were submitted for testing FOR MR OSWALD'S PRINTS eight days BEFORE two curtain rods were extracted on-the-record from Ms Paine's garage"

Proof?

Well, duh

So, by your own logic the document "proves" the rods were released on the 24th and the 26th!

No, Mr O'Meara, do try to keep up. I believe that two rods (those found in the Depository) were released on the 24th and thrown away, and two different rods (those taken from the Paine garage 3/23) were released on the 26th. Only the "3/26/64" version of the form was made public (via the Warren volumes). This was the switcheroo, via the numbers 275 & 276.

What's your explanation? Oh, I forgot, you don't have one---------it's why you're getting so hot and bothered as you scramble to find ways to spin this in a Warren Report-friendly way

[Dan O'meara]

No, Mr O'Meara, do try to keep up. I believe that two rods (those found in the Depository) were released on the 24th and thrown away, and two different rods (those taken from the Paine garage 3/23) were released on the 26th. Only the "3/26/64" version of the form was made public (via the Warren volumes). This was the switcheroo, via the numbers 275 & 276.

"... do try to keep up."

It's impossible to keep up with you Alan as you flit between reality and fantasy constantly. You have the very unfair advantage of not being tied to logic or common sense. But I'll try my best.

So, let me see if I understand what you believe:

Two rods were found in the TSBD and submitted to Day on 3/15/64
Two rods were taken from the Paine residence on 3/23/64
These two rods were submitted to Day on 3/23/64 but this submission is not documented.
The first two rods (TSBD) were released on 3/24/64 and then "thrown away" (??)
The second two rods were then released on 3/26/64

How am I doing so far?

[Dan O'meara]

What makes you think Oswald was aware of them prior to the 11th of November? Frazier did claim to have wrapped curtain rods in a previous job. If there were no rods in the Paine garage would that have changed events? Was Oswald fearful of Frazier's knowledge of the garage contents?

"What makes you think Oswald was aware of them prior to the 11th of November?"

Not sure I follow. The 11th?

There is nothing that documents Oswald's "awareness" of the rods.
Oswald himself denies bringing the rods to work.
It's only Frazier's word that the long package contained curtain rods and this is only because he states that Oswald told him about them.
Frazier never sees what's inside the package.
Either Oswald told him there were curtain rods in the long package or he didn't.


"If there were no rods in the Paine garage would that have changed events?"

It wouldn't have changed anything that happened that day.
Oswald might've come up with a different excuse for why he was carrying a long package with him to work that morning.
If Oswald carried the rifle with him to work that day he would need to have some kind of excuse ready as Frazier would surely ask about it. It could have been anything that was long and thin. Oswald had a lot of his belongings in the garage, including his rifle, and had spent time in there which would have given him the opportunity to come across the curtain rods that had been on the shelf since long before he and Marina arrived at the Paine house.
When coming up with his excuse for Frazier he may have picked the curtain rods simply because they were long and thin and in the garage.

"Was Oswald fearful of Frazier's knowledge of the garage contents?"

Really not sure what you mean by this. How would Frazier have any knowledge of the garage contents?

[Colin Crow]

"What makes you think Oswald was aware of them prior to the 11th of November?"

Not sure I follow. The 11th?

When was Oswald at the Paine's previously? Ie. His last opportunity to notice the wrapped curtain rods?

My point is in all this is Frazier is the key witness linking Oswald to a package that day. Cops were linking CE 142 to carrying the rifle before 3pm. Is it possible that that information transferred to Frazier's mother or LMR that afternoon?

[Dan O'meara]

When was Oswald at the Paine's previously? Ie. His last opportunity to notice the wrapped curtain rods?

My point is in all this is Frazier is the key witness linking Oswald to a package that day. Cops were linking CE 142 to carrying the rifle before 3pm. Is it possible that that information transferred to Frazier's mother or LMR that afternoon?

As I understand it Oswald left the Paine house on the morning of the 12th Nov. and didn't return until the evening of the 22nd.
So the last real opportunity for Oswald to have seen the rods would've been, as you say, the 11th Nov.

Without BWF and LMR there is no long package/curtain rod story.
As I understand it, the police were linking Oswald to the rifle and the rifle to the long bag before BWF and LMR say anything about it.
The first recorded mention of the long bag is when LMR goes up to Adamcik and tells him about it (I'm assuming that she also tells him about Frazier visiting his step-dad in the hospital at this time.)

Detective Montgomery is photographed leaving the TSBD with the bag around 3:00pm. I don't know if he was also filmed or if these images were broadcast.

Frazier insists he was in the hospital only a short time before being arrested which indicates he could have been at home as late as 4:45pm.

[Alan Ford]

So, let me see if I understand what you believe:

Two rods were found in the TSBD and submitted to Day on 3/15/64

 

Two rods were taken from the Paine residence on 3/23/64

 

These two rods were submitted to Day on 3/23/64 but this submission is not documented.

Not necessarily on 3/23/64

The first two rods (TSBD) were released on 3/24/64 and then "thrown away" (??)

= shorthand for 'Agent Howlett made sure they were never seen again'

The second two rods were then released on 3/26/64

 

How am I doing so far?

Surprisingly well, Mr O'Meara!