Then went inside with the curtain rods

[Martin Weidmann]

Good grief.  Again, it's not hindsight.  You seem incapable of understanding.  I'm not suggesting that Frazier should have known that Oswald was a nut job who was carrying a rifle to assassinate JFK that morning.  Can you understand that?  What I am suggesting is that AFTER Frazier knew he had driven a nut job who was carrying a rifle to assassinate JFK that all his interests lay in making it appear that he had no cause to be suspicious.  So it's difficult to say how much of his testimony was influenced by a desire to downplay the events.  This is an obvious point.  It requires no hindsight whatsoever.  It's all the more rich coming from kooks who have suggested that Frazier and his sister were in on the conspiracy and made up the long bag story to implicate Oswald.   

What I am suggesting is that AFTER Frazier knew he had driven a nut job who was carrying a rifle to assassinate JFK that all his interests lay in making it appear that he had no cause to be suspicious.

That all depends on when exactly Frazier (and Randle also) learned that Oswald was the main suspect. I seriously doubt that he (they) knew this when he drove back to his sister in Irving and subsequently to the hospital. Frazier left the TSBD, at around 1:30 PM, before Oswald was even arrested! It is entirely possible that he did not find out about Oswald's arrest until after he was arrested at the hospital, which of course means that he couldn't have synchronized his story with his sister.

So it's difficult to say how much of his testimony was influenced by a desire to downplay the events. This is an obvious point.

Hardly obvious, as he couldn't have known, in those early hours, that the size of the paper bag Oswald had carried and the implications of that, would be such an issue, until the DPD officers asked him about it. That didn't happen until around midnight, when he was being polygraphed. It was at that time that he rejected the bag found at the TSBD as the bag he had seen Oswald carry.

It requires no hindsight whatsoever.

Oh yes it does. And revisionism as well.

[Richard Smith]

What I am suggesting is that AFTER Frazier knew he had driven a nut job who was carrying a rifle to assassinate JFK that all his interests lay in making it appear that he had no cause to be suspicious.

That all depends on when exactly Frazier learned that Oswald was the main suspect. I seriously doubt that he knew this when he drove back to his sister in Irving and subsequently to the hospital. Frazier left the TSBD before Oswald was even arrested! It is entirely possible that he did not find out about Oswald's arrest until after he was arrested at the hospital.

That's a bizarre response.  Frazier's DPD interrogation and WC testimony obviously took place AFTER he realized that Oswald was a suspect.   Once they haul him into the DPD he obviously knows that he is caught up in the assassination investigation via his connection to Oswald.  What difference does it make what he thought before he knew Oswald was a suspect?  It is obvious that Frazier would want to distance himself from any conclusion that he had a basis to suspect that Oswald was up to something that morning.   So if his story is slanted then it is in the direction of downplaying anything suspicious about Oswald's behavior.  It doesn't seem unreasonable, for example, that he might have discussed the top news story of the day with Oswald (i.e. JFK's visit to Dallas).  Particularly since JFK's motorcade route went right by their building.  Frazier seemed afire about JFK's visit later that morning since he mentioned in an interview that he approached Truly and asked for permission to go outside to watch it pass.  But two good ole boys drove to work in silence.

[John Iacoletti]

That's right.  There are no "facts" in the contrarian world.  Only endless possibilities.  Maybe all the evidence was planted.  Maybe everyone lied.  Maybe Oswald was just a good ole boy shuffling from one disaster to another like Mr. Magoo.  Maybe.  It's possible.

 

Like you have anything more than "maybe" and "possibly".

[John Iacoletti]

Good grief.  Again, it's not hindsight.  You seem incapable of understanding.  I'm not suggesting that Frazier should have known that Oswald was a nut job who was carrying a rifle to assassinate JFK that morning.  Can you understand that?  What I am suggesting is that AFTER Frazier knew he had driven a nut job who was carrying a rifle to assassinate JFK that all his interests lay in making it appear that he had no cause to be suspicious.

Suggest away, but don't pretend like your fanciful speculation means anything.

[Colin Crow]

BWF says he leaves TSBD sometime after the roll call.
Drives to hospital and hears about JFK death on the way.
Arrives at hospital and is there about 15 mins before Rose and Stovall show up. 2:45pm at the latest.
He is adamant about these details as he is questioned quite thoroughly about them.

The problem is that the first anyone hears about BWF being at a hospital is about 5pm when Linnie Mae tells Adamcik.
After everyone returns to City Hall, Rose and Stovall testify that BWF located at a clinic in Irving and get in touch with detective McCabe (about 6pm) who collects BWF and takes him to Irving PD which is where Rose and Stovall collect him from.

BWF is not a very good witness. There's more holes in his story than there is story.

Whatever the case, there is no way BWF and LMR can cook up the long bag story as BWF has left TSBD before the long bag is discovered.

Dan, he also claimed in that interview with Gary Mack that he heard of Lee Oswald over the radio on the way to the hospital. The earliest Oswald's name was mentioned in the media was 2.42.

The cops (not sure who) obviously went to the Randle’s after Frazier and LMR left and spoke to the mother. I suspect Buell returned home around 2pm and LMR, mother and he watched TV (HSCA interview) and the moment Oswald's name was mentioned, brother and sister made a run for the hospital to work on a story.

Is it possible that the cops that visited the Randle home conveyed information about a package to the mother?

Something like did you see him that morning? Was he carrying a paper package?

There is also the possibility of the bag information being conveyed to the Paine's as there was two way communication between HQ and the house during the afternoon. Eg ask the wife and RP if he left with a package.....now cops at the scene are aware of the importance of a paper bag before LMR wanders over.

Mother then rings brother and sister at the hospital and tells them the police believe he had a package that morning.

Just something to consider why Frazier might have conveniently lost some hours and why LMR happened to stroll over to chat to Adamcik rather than cops not even bothering the Randle’s for 3 hours.

[Martin Weidmann]

That's a bizarre response.  Frazier's DPD interrogation and WC testimony obviously took place AFTER he realized that Oswald was a suspect.   Once they haul him into the DPD he obviously knows that he is caught up in the assassination investigation via his connection to Oswald.  What difference does it make what he thought before he knew Oswald was a suspect?  It is obvious that Frazier would want to distance himself from any conclusion that he had a basis to suspect that Oswald was up to something that morning.   So if his story is slanted then it is in the direction of downplaying anything suspicious about Oswald's behavior.  It doesn't seem unreasonable, for example, that he might have discussed the top news story of the day with Oswald (i.e. JFK's visit to Dallas).  Particularly since JFK's motorcade route went right by their building.  Frazier seemed afire about JFK's visit later that morning since he mentioned in an interview that he approached Truly and asked for permission to go outside to watch it pass.  But two good ole boys drove to work in silence.

Frazier's DPD interrogation and WC testimony obviously took place AFTER he realized that Oswald was a suspect. 

Really? What's so obvious about it as far as his DPD interrogation goes?

Once they haul him into the DPD he obviously knows that he is caught up in the assassination investigation via his connection to Oswald.  What difference does it make what he thought before he knew Oswald was a suspect?

Again, what's so obvious about it? When he was arrested, it could well have been for him not being present when they wanted to talk to all the people who had been on the 6th floor. Do you really think the investigators would just tell him it had something to do with Oswald? Are you that naive? In his HSCA interview, Frazier confirmed that the officers who arrested him did not tell him anything about Oswald and that he only found out Oswald had been arrested after they brought him back to DPD headquarters in Dallas.

It is obvious that Frazier would want to distance himself from any conclusion that he had a basis to suspect that Oswald was up to something that morning.

That's the third time you've used the word "obvious" when there is nothing obvious about it. Frazier did nothing wrong and wasn't aware of any potential legal problems until he was arrested at the hospital. As an innocent man all he needed to do was tell the investigators what happened, which basically is that he gave a co-worker a ride to work. There was no reason for him to concoct any kind of story and there was no opportunity or need for him to synchronize his story with his sister.

So if his story is slanted then it is in the direction of downplaying anything suspicious about Oswald's behavior.

If?

This is complete biased selfserving BS. You first assume that Frazier must have been suspicious about Oswald's trip to Irving, he then must have been suspicious about the package and finally he must have instantly understood that his involvement with Oswald could be a problem for the investigators. Then, and only then, would this so described "dumb ass" get to the point that he needed to make up some story, synchronize it with his sister, rather than just telling the truth. It is so far fetched that it is completely idiotic.

But two good ole boys drove to work in silence.

Oswald was known as the silent type. Not very talkative and keeping very much to himself. So what if they drove to work in silence? The fact that you can not imagine a drive by two people who do not talk is your problem.

[Walt Cakebread]

What I am suggesting is that AFTER Frazier knew he had driven a nut job who was carrying a rifle to assassinate JFK that all his interests lay in making it appear that he had no cause to be suspicious.

That all depends on when exactly Frazier (and Randle also) learned that Oswald was the main suspect. I seriously doubt that he (they) knew this when he drove back to his sister in Irving and subsequently to the hospital. Frazier left the TSBD, at around 1:30 PM, before Oswald was even arrested! It is entirely possible that he did not find out about Oswald's arrest until after he was arrested at the hospital, which of course means that he couldn't have synchronized his story with his sister.

So it's difficult to say how much of his testimony was influenced by a desire to downplay the events. This is an obvious point.

Hardly obvious, as he couldn't have known, in those early hours, that the size of the paper bag Oswald had carried and the implications of that, would be such an issue, until the DPD officers asked him about it. That didn't happen until around midnight, when he was being polygraphed. It was at that time that he rejected the bag found at the TSBD as the bag he had seen Oswald carry.

It requires no hindsight whatsoever.

Oh yes it does. And revisionism as well.

That didn't happen until around midnight, when he was being polygraphed.

Anybody who knows anything about polygraphs knows that a polygraph cannot be conducted with the subject under duress.....

Polygraphed ??.....  Those bastards merely went through the motions and tricked an ignorant kid into believing that he was on record ( The polygraph chart ) that he had seen the arch villain  Lee Harrrrvey  Ossssswald (BOOOOO HISSSSS)  carrying a long brown paper bag that morning.   Since the "polygraph" had recorded his admission, and the officers, had suggested that he couldn't be held as an accomplice because he didn't know the sack held a broken down rifle.

[Martin Weidmann]

That didn't happen until around midnight, when he was being polygraphed.

Anybody who knows anything about polygraphs knows that a polygraph cannot be conducted with the subject under duress.....

Polygraphed ??.....  Those bastards merely went through the motions and tricked an ignorant kid into believing that he was on record ( The polygraph chart ) that he had seen the arch villain  Lee Harrrrvey  Ossssswald (BOOOOO HISSSSS)  carrying a long brown paper bag that morning.   Since the "polygraph" had recorded his admission, and the officers, had suggested that he couldn't be held as an accomplice because he didn't know the sack held a broken down rifle.

I'm not exactly sure what you are trying to say here, Walt, but Frazier was indeed polygraphed on Friday evening and they did show him the bag that was found at the TSBD. His denial that this was not the bag Oswald had carried caused a panic by Lt Day who instantly started to look for an explanation and even went so far as to suggest that Oswald had carried the TSBD bag inside a flimsy groceries bag.