Then went inside with the curtain rods

[Colin Crow]

Indeed. The point that I have been trying to make is that we can only speculate about what actually happened based on the assumption that the curtain rods story is either true or a lie.

To "Richard" all sorts of things are "obvious" when in fact they are pure speculation to support his main and highly speculative argument that Frazier tried to downplay his involvement by concocting a story about a small size bag with Randle. It is a desperate attempt to get a 34.8" broken down rifle into the bag Oswald was carrying.

Martin, as a research scientist my approach is to look at all the available documents and try and include possibilities until they can be excluded. Corroboration ranks highly in the process along with consistency over time.

Usually I attempt to construct a timeline (or sequence) of events and see how the individual reports fit. For this timeline you need to look at the statements of Ruth Paine, Michael Paine, Rose, Stovall and others to get an idea of the sequence.

Frazier's story that he drove to the Irving hospital directly from the TSBD, was there just a few minutes before his arrest by Rose and Stovall is unsupportable. It makes no sense to go there first. It is inconsistent with his HSCA interview and the time loss amounts to hours.

[Bill Chapman]

Wrong. Frazier did not have "ample time to get his story straight with his sister". Right after he was let out of work Frazier headed directly to the hospital and phoned his sister. Not long after that the detectives arrived to take him in. That is not "ample time".         

A lot of spin here with no facts. This is Richard creating his own events of what he wants you to believe happened. 
 

Wrong again. Frazier was taken to the station in the afternoon when he was at the hospital for a short amount of time. Frazier was already being interrogated for hours before 9 PM.         

More spin of what Richard wants you to believe.

Frazier was interrogated by different sets of detectives and was thoroughly grilled. They all knew Frazier knew nothing and they let him go. Otherwise they would have booked him as a suspect and co-conspirator.   

Right after he was let out of work Frazier headed directly to the hospital and phoned his sister. Not long after that the detectives arrived to take him in. That is not "ample time". 

Quantify, in minutes:
A) 'Right after'
B) 'Not long after that'
C) 'Not ample time'
D) 'A short amount of time'

How long would it take Linnie to say, for example, 'shrink the bag size, 'bro, or we're screwed. Go with two feet'
   

[Rick Plant]

Please read my posts Rick. Frazier did not go immediately to the hospital. That story is bogus.

Mr. BALL. You brought Ruth Paine and Marina down to the police department, did you?
Mr. ROSE. Yes; we took Ruth Paine and Marina and Marina's two children in our car and also the blanket--I carried it.
Mr. BALL. And the rest of that day you spent in inquiring for and looking around for Wesley Frazier?
Mr. ROSE. Well, we came on back to the city hall and we took Ruth Paine and Michael Paine and Marina Oswald to the homicide office, but it was so crowded that we transferred them to the forgery bureau office next door, and then someone came over and I believe it was the Detective Senkel, to take affidavits from them and I immediately started trying to locate Wesley Frazier. We were told that he would be at Parkland Hospital, but we checked through Parkland and there was no Fraziers there and I started a heck of the clinics and the doctors' offices in Irving, and I located through one of the nurses, I believe, or talked to someone on the phone there that Mr. Frazier was in the hospital there at Irving Clinic, so I called Detective McCabe in Irving and that Wesley was the one that had brought Lee Oswald to work that morning.

Why didn’t Rose simply call LMR to determine the hospital once Parland wasn’t the one?

Frazier on several occasions stated he directly went to the hospital after he was let out of work. He stated he wasn't there very long before the detectives took him in for questioning. That questioning lasted several hours. It couldn't be later in the evening because he was released after midnight and it wouldn't have been several hours if he was taken in  later.

Frazier and the rest of the employees at the school book depository were sent home early from work. Frazier went to Irving to visit his stepfather, who was in the hospital.

By then, Dallas police detectives had figured out that Frazier had driven Oswald to work that morning. They tracked him down at the hospital and arrested him.

After hours of interrogation, Frazier said, an angry police captain came into the room, demanding that he sign a confession.
https://www.dallasnews.com/news/2013/04/01/co-worker-who-drove-oswald-to-school-book-depository-recounts-dallas-darkest-day/

[Dan O'meara]

You guys really think he heard Oswald's name on the car radio? How long do you think it took to get to the Irving hospital even if the drove there directly......which he didnt?

Would like to run this scenario by you as it's the one I believe covers most (but not all) the inconsistencies concerning the curtain rods.

Oswald asks Frazier to take him to Paine's Thursday explaining he wants to collect curtain rods.
Oswald has been in the Paine garage and is well aware of the curtain rods.
Ruth Paine testifies that two curtain rods were in the garage before and after the assassination (rods measured at 27.5 inches)
The next morning Oswald shows up with a long package that, in retrospect, is really obviously a rifle but Oswald palms it off as curtain rods and Frazier swallows it (not the sharpest tool in the shed.)
After leaving work Frazier returns home and realises Oswald is involved.
It dawns on him that the long, rifle-looking package Oswald showed up with was indeed the rifle that killed JFK.
How can anyone believe Frazier wasn't aware Oswald was carrying a rifle?
When he looks back on it he can't believe he accepted it was curtain rods, it looked nothing like curtain rods, it was clearly a rifle.
He is definitely going down as an accessory - the man who drove the assassin and his poorly disguised rifle to the scene of the crime.
So he gets together with Linnie to concoct the curtain rod story - Oswald did indeed have a long package but no way was it long enough to be a rifle. It was definitely curtain rod length just like Oswald said.
Linnie heads home and sees the activity outside the Paine's (maybe the mother has seen the activity and let them know).
Linnie tells Adamcik about Oswald and his definitely curtain rod length package.

[Colin Crow]

Frazier on several occasions stated he directly went to the hospital after he was let out of work. He stated he wasn't there very long before the detectives took him in for questioning. That questioning lasted several hours. It couldn't be later in the evening because he was released after midnight and it wouldn't have been several hours if he was taken in  later.

Frazier and the rest of the employees at the school book depository were sent home early from work. Frazier went to Irving to visit his stepfather, who was in the hospital.

By then, Dallas police detectives had figured out that Frazier had driven Oswald to work that morning. They tracked him down at the hospital and arrested him.

After hours of interrogation, Frazier said, an angry police captain came into the room, demanding that he sign a confession.
https://www.dallasnews.com/news/2013/04/01/co-worker-who-drove-oswald-to-school-book-depository-recounts-dallas-darkest-day/

I am well aware of Frazier's various statements about his movements after leaving the TSBD.

Can you find any earlier statements from Frazier than his HSCA interview?

Timestamps provided for reference.

14:51 He went to his sister's house and his Mother was there – then went to hospital – Irving Professional Center – was giving  step father oxygen
“Sister said, she was there” she had to go somewhere. I can give him oxygen.
Phone call – after the oxygen – two detectives tried to grab him  - he ran to the exit  – they said stop or they will shoot – frisked and shake down occurred – Rose and Stovall – they thought it was strange he ran - took to Irving PS – took to Dallas

27:20 He got home and it was on TV – sister knew what had happened (TSBD) – "we both said it was bad thing" there is a significant------8 sec pause ----- “she said”…then the story changes back….."I went to house and mother was there. Asked where sister was and she was at hospital. She had been there a while, he went to relieve her.

31.10 Has an interesting exchange about the curtain rod story.

32.00 when he got home he backed his car up by the car port.

32:30 Cops went to my sisters house first – asked my mother  -  she told them he was up at hospital with sister.

[Colin Crow]

Would like to run this scenario by you as it's the one I believe covers most (but not all) the inconsistencies concerning the curtain rods.

Oswald asks Frazier to take him to Paine's Thursday explaining he wants to collect curtain rods.
Oswald has been in the Paine garage and is well aware of the curtain rods.
Ruth Paine testifies that two curtain rods were in the garage before and after the assassination (rods measured at 27.5 inches)
The next morning Oswald shows up with a long package that, in retrospect, is really obviously a rifle but Oswald palms it off as curtain rods and Frazier swallows it (not the sharpest tool in the shed.)
After leaving work Frazier returns home and realises Oswald is involved.
It dawns on him that the long, rifle-looking package Oswald showed up with was indeed the rifle that killed JFK.
How can anyone believe Frazier wasn't aware Oswald was carrying a rifle?
When he looks back on it he can't believe he accepted it was curtain rods, it looked nothing like curtain rods, it was clearly a rifle.
He is definitely going down as an accessory - the man who drove the assassin and his poorly disguised rifle to the scene of the crime.
So he gets together with Linnie to concoct the curtain rod story - Oswald did indeed have a long package but no way was it long enough to be a rifle. It was definitely curtain rod length just like Oswald said.
Linnie heads home and sees the activity outside the Paine's (maybe the mother has seen the activity and let them know).
Linnie tells Adamcik about Oswald and his definitely curtain rod length package.

I could go with most of what you propose Dan. I think the curtain rod idea originated with Frazier and LMR only got the message by the next day.

Perhaps someone could answer my previous question about the bag.

From Frazier’s first day statement....

"Before I got in the car, I glanced in the back seat, and saw a big sack. It must have been about 2' long, and the top of the sack was sort of folded up, and the rest of the sack had been kind of folded under."

Anyone want to show how the CE139 stock fits into CE142 with both evidence of both ends folded over?

In any event why the need for a bag? The rifle was not obvious to anyone in the blanket. Why not just tell Frazier he was picking up some camping equipment to sell?

[Martin Weidmann]

I could go with most of what you propose Dan. I think the curtain rod idea originated with Frazier and LMR only got the message by the next day.

Perhaps someone could answer my previous question about the bag.

From Frazier’s first day statement....

"Before I got in the car, I glanced in the back seat, and saw a big sack. It must have been about 2' long, and the top of the sack was sort of folded up, and the rest of the sack had been kind of folded under."

Anyone want to show how the CE139 stock fits into CE142 with both evidence of both ends folded over?

In any event why the need for a bag? The rifle was not obvious to anyone in the blanket. Why not just tell Frazier he was picking up some camping equipment to sell?

In any event why the need for a bag? The rifle was not obvious to anyone in the blanket. Why not just tell Frazier he was picking up some camping equipment to sell?

Or why construct the bag at all when he could have carried the rifle in the same way that he allegedly succesfully did on public transport on his way to New Orleans?

[Martin Weidmann]

Would like to run this scenario by you as it's the one I believe covers most (but not all) the inconsistencies concerning the curtain rods.

Oswald asks Frazier to take him to Paine's Thursday explaining he wants to collect curtain rods.
Oswald has been in the Paine garage and is well aware of the curtain rods.
Ruth Paine testifies that two curtain rods were in the garage before and after the assassination (rods measured at 27.5 inches)
The next morning Oswald shows up with a long package that, in retrospect, is really obviously a rifle but Oswald palms it off as curtain rods and Frazier swallows it (not the sharpest tool in the shed.)
After leaving work Frazier returns home and realises Oswald is involved.
It dawns on him that the long, rifle-looking package Oswald showed up with was indeed the rifle that killed JFK.
How can anyone believe Frazier wasn't aware Oswald was carrying a rifle?
When he looks back on it he can't believe he accepted it was curtain rods, it looked nothing like curtain rods, it was clearly a rifle.
He is definitely going down as an accessory - the man who drove the assassin and his poorly disguised rifle to the scene of the crime.
So he gets together with Linnie to concoct the curtain rod story - Oswald did indeed have a long package but no way was it long enough to be a rifle. It was definitely curtain rod length just like Oswald said.
Linnie heads home and sees the activity outside the Paine's (maybe the mother has seen the activity and let them know).
Linnie tells Adamcik about Oswald and his definitely curtain rod length package.

The next morning Oswald shows up with a long package that, in retrospect, is really obviously a rifle but Oswald palms it off as curtain rods and Frazier swallows it (not the sharpest tool in the shed.)

At this point you've lost me. There is nothing "really obvious" about it. A 34.8" long bag would not have fitted between the palm of Oswald's hand and underneath his shoulder nor would Oswald been able to carry the package, as described by Randle, without hitting the ground.

From this point onwards most of what you have written is pure speculation and conjecture.

I have met Frazier and he is absolutely 100% convinced that the bag he saw wasn't big enough to conceal a 34.8" broken down rifle. I have no reason to assume that he has been lying about this all his life.