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Author Topic: LHO's shirt  (Read 40742 times)

Offline Dan O'meara

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Re: LHO's shirt
« Reply #64 on: February 06, 2021, 12:54:13 AM »
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Your logic eludes me here, Mr O'Meara.

How can he be set-up as the gun supplier without the Hidell ID?

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But again--------I do not rule out the possibility that Mr Oswald had some knowing role in the assassination. Heck, I don't even know for sure what the guy's true political views were.

That he wasn't the shooter or set up as the shooter is all I can state with conviction.

We have very similar views but I still don't get why you're so convinced he definitely wasn't set-up as the shooter even though it appears that is exactly what happened.

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Re: LHO's shirt
« Reply #64 on: February 06, 2021, 12:54:13 AM »


Offline Alan Ford

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Re: LHO's shirt
« Reply #65 on: February 06, 2021, 01:24:58 AM »
How can he be set-up as the gun supplier without the Hidell ID?

OK, let's think this through. Suppose no Hidell ID were found on Mr Oswald's person (and there are some serious researchers who believe just that). How might this have played out differently? (I'm not trying to play gotcha here, Mr O'Meara, I'm genuinely interested by your question.)

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We have very similar views but I still don't get why you're so convinced he definitely wasn't set-up as the shooter even though it appears that is exactly what happened.

Because he was let roam free, and because no serious attempt was made to impersonate him up at that window (or to plant a single witness who could do what Mr Brennan & co. signally failed to do: offer a decisive, emphatic identification of the man up there as Mr Oswald).

Re. the first point: we agree that Mr Oswald was on the first floor to see Messrs Jarman and Norman come in, right? Ask yourself: would people trying to set Mr Oswald up as the sixth-floor shooter really allow him to be downstairs so close to the assassination? He could have been seen by any number of people. If setting him up as the sixth-floor shooter was integral to the big plan, this makes no sense.
« Last Edit: February 06, 2021, 01:37:28 AM by Alan Ford »

Offline Walt Cakebread

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Re: LHO's shirt
« Reply #66 on: February 06, 2021, 11:40:32 AM »
OK, let's think this through. Suppose no Hidell ID were found on Mr Oswald's person (and there are some serious researchers who believe just that). How might this have played out differently? (I'm not trying to play gotcha here, Mr O'Meara, I'm genuinely interested by your question.)

Because he was let roam free, and because no serious attempt was made to impersonate him up at that window (or to plant a single witness who could do what Mr Brennan & co. signally failed to do: offer a decisive, emphatic identification of the man up there as Mr Oswald).

Re. the first point: we agree that Mr Oswald was on the first floor to see Messrs Jarman and Norman come in, right? Ask yourself: would people trying to set Mr Oswald up as the sixth-floor shooter really allow him to be downstairs so close to the assassination? He could have been seen by any number of people. If setting him up as the sixth-floor shooter was integral to the big plan, this makes no sense.

we agree that Mr Oswald was on the first floor to see Messrs Jarman and Norman come in, right? Ask yourself: would people trying to set Mr Oswald up as the sixth-floor shooter really allow him to be downstairs so close to the assassination? He could have been seen by any number of people. If setting him up as the sixth-floor shooter was integral to the big plan, this makes no sense.

May I offer an idea?....  I've long thought that Lee was playing the same game that he played at Walker's on April 10.

He thought that he was laying the foundation for an infiltration of Castro's Cuba.  ( Just as he had slipped into the USSR back in 1959)  He thought that the stage play called for a scenario in which it would appear that he had taken a couple of shots at JFK ( though the playwright had told him that the "shots" that the witnesses heard would actually be nothing more than a couple of fire crackers.) 

Ask yourself: would people trying to set Mr Oswald up as the sixth-floor shooter really allow him to be downstairs so close to the assassination?   

Yes, If they were certain that he wouldn't allow himself to be seen for a few minutes prior to the appearance of the president or for a few minutes after the passing of the president.

And all that was necessary to assure themselves that Lee wouldn't be accounted for during that period was the warning to Lee that if he valued his life he would stay out of sight during the time the president passed by, because if anybody were to step forward and say the had seen Lee Oswald at the time the shots were being fired, ( or a photo surfaced showing him applauding as JFK passed by) and he was in Cuba ( fleeing from the attempted murder of JFK) That information would be his invitation to attend a gathering of Castro's firing squad,

I believe that Lee was in fact in the 1st floor lunchroom while being very careful so that nobody would see him.  There was shower right off the Domino room that he was prepared to slip into if anybody approached the area. Thus he could remain out of sight.    ( He may have slipped into that shower when Jarmen and Norman passed by)
 


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Re: LHO's shirt
« Reply #66 on: February 06, 2021, 11:40:32 AM »


Offline Dan O'meara

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Re: LHO's shirt
« Reply #67 on: February 06, 2021, 03:24:45 PM »
OK, let's think this through. Suppose no Hidell ID were found on Mr Oswald's person (and there are some serious researchers who believe just that). How might this have played out differently? (I'm not trying to play gotcha here, Mr O'Meara, I'm genuinely interested by your question.)

Because he was let roam free, and because no serious attempt was made to impersonate him up at that window (or to plant a single witness who could do what Mr Brennan & co. signally failed to do: offer a decisive, emphatic identification of the man up there as Mr Oswald).

Re. the first point: we agree that Mr Oswald was on the first floor to see Messrs Jarman and Norman come in, right? Ask yourself: would people trying to set Mr Oswald up as the sixth-floor shooter really allow him to be downstairs so close to the assassination? He could have been seen by any number of people. If setting him up as the sixth-floor shooter was integral to the big plan, this makes no sense.

You're imagining him as a free man, free to wander where he pleases, oblivious to what's going on.
The thing with the Patsy scenario is that he's under orders. He's being told what to do. He's not free like you imagine him to be.

Offline Walt Cakebread

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Re: LHO's shirt
« Reply #68 on: February 06, 2021, 06:13:21 PM »
You're imagining him as a free man, free to wander where he pleases, oblivious to what's going on.
The thing with the Patsy scenario is that he's under orders. He's being told what to do. He's not free like you imagine him to be.

The thing with the Patsy scenario is that he's under orders. He's being told what to do.

Under orders.....Definitely not!.....  That might cause the sucker to balk or rebel and refuse to perform as desired.  The sucker must be duped into believing that it's his idea.....And Lee definitely was a sucker for several schemes that he thought was his idea.....example.... hijacking an airliner,  and applying to the Cuban embassy for entry ....

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Re: LHO's shirt
« Reply #68 on: February 06, 2021, 06:13:21 PM »


Offline Alan Ford

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Re: LHO's shirt
« Reply #69 on: February 06, 2021, 07:14:54 PM »
we agree that Mr Oswald was on the first floor to see Messrs Jarman and Norman come in, right? Ask yourself: would people trying to set Mr Oswald up as the sixth-floor shooter really allow him to be downstairs so close to the assassination? He could have been seen by any number of people. If setting him up as the sixth-floor shooter was integral to the big plan, this makes no sense.

May I offer an idea?....  I've long thought that Lee was playing the same game that he played at Walker's on April 10.

He thought that he was laying the foundation for an infiltration of Castro's Cuba.  ( Just as he had slipped into the USSR back in 1959)  He thought that the stage play called for a scenario in which it would appear that he had taken a couple of shots at JFK ( though the playwright had told him that the "shots" that the witnesses heard would actually be nothing more than a couple of fire crackers.) 

Ask yourself: would people trying to set Mr Oswald up as the sixth-floor shooter really allow him to be downstairs so close to the assassination?   

Yes, If they were certain that he wouldn't allow himself to be seen for a few minutes prior to the appearance of the president or for a few minutes after the passing of the president.

And all that was necessary to assure themselves that Lee wouldn't be accounted for during that period was the warning to Lee that if he valued his life he would stay out of sight during the time the president passed by, because if anybody were to step forward and say the had seen Lee Oswald at the time the shots were being fired, ( or a photo surfaced showing him applauding as JFK passed by) and he was in Cuba ( fleeing from the attempted murder of JFK) That information would be his invitation to attend a gathering of Castro's firing squad,

I believe that Lee was in fact in the 1st floor lunchroom while being very careful so that nobody would see him.  There was shower right off the Domino room that he was prepared to slip into if anybody approached the area. Thus he could remain out of sight.    ( He may have slipped into that shower when Jarmen and Norman passed by)

Why not just get Mr Oswald himself to go up to the sixth floor and pretend to shoot at JFK?

Offline Alan Ford

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Re: LHO's shirt
« Reply #70 on: February 06, 2021, 07:17:46 PM »
You're imagining him as a free man, free to wander where he pleases, oblivious to what's going on.

Kindly desist from putting words in my mouth, Mr O'Meara.

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The thing with the Patsy scenario is that he's under orders. He's being told what to do.

Not necessarily.

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He's not free like you imagine him to be.

Are we in agreement that Mr Oswald was on the first floor to see Messrs Jarman and Norman come in a few short minutes before the shooting?

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Re: LHO's shirt
« Reply #70 on: February 06, 2021, 07:17:46 PM »


Offline Bill Chapman

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Re: LHO's shirt
« Reply #71 on: February 06, 2021, 08:07:21 PM »
The little prick killed Tippit, so deconstructing from that point suggests that Oswald remained downstairs as long as possible and made sure someone saw him, in an attempt to cast at least some doubt re making it back upstairs in time to create the ensuing commotion.