LHO's shirt

[Walt Cakebread]

William, I contacted the Archives a few years back and asked for its help in determining if the light brown shirt they had in their collection was in fact the "reddish" shirt Oswald claimed he'd been wearing on the day of the shooting. After months of haggling, and working out the financial details (I had to pay them), they sent me some hi-res color photos of the shirt, which turned out to be reddish. One of these is presented above.

As shown on my website, moreover, one of the photos they sent me showed the inner collar of the shirt, and the initials of a multitude of FBI experts. This led me to believe that yessiree the shirt was tested for nitrates among other things and that the results of these tests were kept from the public. (There is no published report discussing any tests performed on this shirt.)

yessiree the shirt was tested for nitrates among other things and that the results of these tests were kept from the public. (There is no published report discussing any tests performed on this shirt.)

Thanks for posting that info , Mr. Speer......  Surely you don't believe that Mr John Edgar Hoover (aka; Mr Dazzling All American Hero  ) would have ordered the results of the tests to be kept hidden from the public?   I'd hasten to remind you that Mr Golden Boy created the memo that he wanted released to the suckers. The memo that would convince the suckers that Lee Harvey Oswald was the arch villain who had shot the president for no reason, and he had no accomplices.   

Don't you know that Mr Golden Boy Hoover had investigated and determined in just 24 hours,  that Lee Harvey Oswald was the assassin, and he wanted LBJ to inform the pissants.   

[Walt Cakebread]

William, I contacted the Archives a few years back and asked for its help in determining if the light brown shirt they had in their collection was in fact the "reddish" shirt Oswald claimed he'd been wearing on the day of the shooting. After months of haggling, and working out the financial details (I had to pay them), they sent me some hi-res color photos of the shirt, which turned out to be reddish. One of these is presented above.

As shown on my website, moreover, one of the photos they sent me showed the inner collar of the shirt, and the initials of a multitude of FBI experts. This led me to believe that yessiree the shirt was tested for nitrates among other things and that the results of these tests were kept from the public. (There is no published report discussing any tests performed on this shirt.)

After months of haggling, and working out the financial details (I had to pay them), they sent me some hi-res color photos of the shirt,

This is interesting, Pat.    Did you get the feeling that they were draggin their feet, and stalling in hope that you'd throw up your hands and quit.   You're not the first who has had trouble getting information from the archives.

Do you think that they at the archives are required to notify some agency and receive permission before they can release information to certain people.

[Pat Speer]

After months of haggling, and working out the financial details (I had to pay them), they sent me some hi-res color photos of the shirt,

This is interesting, Pat.    Did you get the feeling that they were draggin their feet, and stalling in hope that you'd throw up your hands and quit.   You're not the first who has had trouble getting information from the archives.

Do you think that they at the archives are required to notify some agency and receive permission before they can release information to certain people.

I got the feeling they considered me a nuisance. I contacted them and asked them if the original evidence photos were in color or black and white, and if I could buy a copy if they'd been in color. They told me they had copies of the original photos that were black and white, and that the JFK Library had the originals. I then contacted the JFK Library and they said the archives was blowing smoke, and that they--the archives--had all the evidence photos. I then re-contacted the archives and said that if they couldn't find the photos they should take color photos of the items of clothing in which I'd expressed an interest, and put them up on their website, as the only released photos were in black and white. This got bumped up to the top. After about two months of back and forth, I finally got an answer--that they'd agreed to take the photos for me--for a price. It then took another month or so for them to agree on a price, and to work out the method of payment. The man in charge--the top guy on the JFK records, as I recall--then took a vacation, and apparently forgot all about our agreement. After about another month, I finally gave in and emailed him to remind him of our deal. A few weeks later I received a CD-rom in the mail with the photos I'd requested, along with an explanation that they were my property, and I could do with them as I wished. Now, this last part is interesting. I'd initially asked them to put the images up on their website--so that people could see whether or not Oswald was telling the truth about his placing a dirty reddish shirt in a drawer--and instead they sent the images to me. I took from this that the powers that be had no interest in adding any images suggestive of Oswald's innocence to the Archives' website.

[Alan Ford]

I got the feeling they considered me a nuisance. I contacted them and asked them if the original evidence photos were in color or black and white, and if I could buy a copy if they'd been in color. They told me they had copies of the original photos that were black and white, and that the JFK Library had the originals. I then contacted the JFK Library and they said the archives was blowing smoke, and that they--the archives--had all the evidence photos. I then re-contacted the archives and said that if they couldn't find the photos they should take color photos of the items of clothing in which I'd expressed an interest, and put them up on their website, as the only released photos were in black and white. This got bumped up to the top. After about two months of back and forth, I finally got an answer--that they'd agreed to take the photos for me--for a price. It then took another month or so for them to agree on a price, and to work out the method of payment. The man in charge--the top guy on the JFK records, as I recall--then took a vacation, and apparently forgot all about our agreement. After about another month, I finally gave in and emailed him to remind him of our deal. A few weeks later I received a CD-rom in the mail with the photos I'd requested, along with an explanation that they were my property, and I could do with them as I wished. Now, this last part is interesting. I'd initially asked them to put the images up on their website--so that people could see whether or not Oswald was telling the truth about his placing a dirty reddish shirt in a drawer--and instead they sent the images to me. I took from this that the powers that be had no interest in adding any images suggestive of Oswald's innocence to the Archives' website.

You did a very important thing here, Mr Speer 

A simple thought occurs re. the part I've highlighted above: the very last thing a guilty man would do is tell the police exactly where to find the shirt which, being the one he was wearing at the time he fired the rifle, could well contain incriminating forensic evidence.

[Walt Cakebread]

You did a very important thing here, Mr Speer 

A simple thought occurs re. the part I've highlighted above: the very last thing a guilty man would do is tell the police exactly where to find the shirt which, being the one he was wearing at the time he fired the rifle, could well contain incriminating forensic evidence.

the very last thing a guilty man would do is tell the police exactly where to find the shirt which, being the one he was wearing at the time he fired the rifle, could well contain incriminating forensic evidence.

    Excellent reasoning Mr F...  I've never doubted that Lee simply told Fritz the truth about the clothes that he wore at the TSBD that morning.   So I never examined the matter as you have here, but I believe that you're right.

The shirt episode has been brushed aside and distorted by the FBI and the DPD.    Hoover was embarrassed and furious, when he learned that the FBI had been given the wrong shirt and they had been put in the position of verifing that the tuft of fibers from the butt plate had came from the arrest shirt and that shirt had no connection to the murder of JFK because it was not the shirt that Lee wore at the TSBD that morning.   I believe that this discovery was the primary reason that the evidence was returned to the DPD. Hoover told Curry that he'd better get this staightened out or else....     

Consequently the DPD dressed an imposter in the arrest shirt and paraded him before cameras while being held by the elbow by a DPD detective ....   And it also is the reason they took the arrest shirt out to Mrs Bledsoe so she would say it was the shirt she saw Lee Oswald wearing on the bus.

[William Pilgrim]

I got the feeling they considered me a nuisance. I contacted them and asked them if the original evidence photos were in color or black and white, and if I could buy a copy if they'd been in color. They told me they had copies of the original photos that were black and white, and that the JFK Library had the originals. I then contacted the JFK Library and they said the archives was blowing smoke, and that they--the archives--had all the evidence photos. I then re-contacted the archives and said that if they couldn't find the photos they should take color photos of the items of clothing in which I'd expressed an interest, and put them up on their website, as the only released photos were in black and white. This got bumped up to the top. After about two months of back and forth, I finally got an answer--that they'd agreed to take the photos for me--for a price. It then took another month or so for them to agree on a price, and to work out the method of payment. The man in charge--the top guy on the JFK records, as I recall--then took a vacation, and apparently forgot all about our agreement. After about another month, I finally gave in and emailed him to remind him of our deal. A few weeks later I received a CD-rom in the mail with the photos I'd requested, along with an explanation that they were my property, and I could do with them as I wished. Now, this last part is interesting. I'd initially asked them to put the images up on their website--so that people could see whether or not Oswald was telling the truth about his placing a dirty reddish shirt in a drawer--and instead they sent the images to me. I took from this that the powers that be had no interest in adding any images suggestive of Oswald's innocence to the Archives' website.

I think Pat's analysis that the REDDISH BROWN shirt with the BUTTON DOWN COLLAR had been subject to forensic testing (his photograph of the collar with the four initials) is a red flag when considering whether LHO fired a rifle on the morning of the assassination.
Presumably this testing was negative as a positive test would have cemented LHO's guilt and would have been broadcast to the wider public by law enforcement.

Surely this must put doubt in the mind of those who believe in the LN theory?

The only argument that could be used against this is that LHO took off his shirt and fired the rifle while wearing the white T shirt and then put his shirt back on, however, it doesn't seem logical to do this, particularly if you believe that he had to then wipe down the rifle, hide it amongst the boxes and then rush downstairs within 90 seconds (if you believe the LN theory). 

[Alan Ford]

I think Pat's analysis that the REDDISH BROWN shirt with the BUTTON DOWN COLLAR had been subject to forensic testing (his photograph of the collar with the four initials) is a red flag when considering whether LHO fired a rifle on the morning of the assassination.
Presumably this testing was negative as a positive test would have cemented LHO's guilt and would have been broadcast to the wider public by law enforcement.

Had the reddish shirt been found in, say, a trash can near Mr Oswald's rooming house, then that would speak to guilt. Instead we have the very opposite---------a suspect who helpfully points the police to the shirt he was wearing at work that day.

Surely this must put doubt in the mind of those who believe in the LN theory?

The only argument that could be used against this is that LHO took off his shirt and fired the rifle while wearing the white T shirt and then put his shirt back on, however, it doesn't seem logical to do this, particularly if you believe that he had to then wipe down the rifle, hide it amongst the boxes and then rush downstairs within 90 seconds (if you believe the LN theory).

Same logic applies: why would a guilty man not change tshirts at the rooming house-----------and dispose of the tshirt he'd been wearing when he fired the rifle?

[Dan O'meara]

Had the reddish shirt been found in, say, a trash can near Mr Oswald's rooming house, then that would speak to guilt. Instead we have the very opposite---------a suspect who helpfully points the police to the shirt he was wearing at work that day.

Same logic applies: why would a guilty man not change tshirts at the rooming house-----------and dispose of the tshirt he'd been wearing when he fired the rifle?

And none of the witnesses who saw someone on the 6th floor describe a reddish shirt