LHO's shirt

[Walt Cakebread]

---OK Lee, so we're gonna to do a fake assassination attempt to get you into Castro's good graces.
---Sounds good.
---Fake shots.
---Sounds good.
---You up at the sixth-floor window.
---Sounds good.
---Your Carcano.
---Sounds good.
---Shells left by the window.
---Sounds good.
---Lots of folks down below in the crowd to see you up there.
---Sounds good.
---Might even be some photographs taken.
---Sounds good.
---So it's real important there's no doubt in anyone's mind that it was you done it, otherwise Castro will have you killed.
---Sounds good.
---We gotta get this right.
---Sounds good.
---So we're gonna get someone else to be up at that window pretending to be you.
---Huh?

---Also, seeing as we need to get you out of the building alive and all, we're gonna make sure the guy impersonating you up there doesn't look a whole lot like you.

---OK Lee, so you think that you could pull off a fake assassination attempt to get you into Castro's good graces.
---Sounds good.
---Fake shots.
---Sounds good.
---Set up a stage using spent shells at a sixth-floor window.
---Sounds good.
---Your Carcano.
---Sounds good.

---Lots of folks down below in the crowd to see you up there.
---NOT good, Lee.... Too risky, you could be shot by a Secret Service guard
---Might even be some photographs taken.
--- NOT GOOD , Lee If a photographer could take your photo, He's be taking the photo of a dead man because the Secret Service are trained to respond instantly...far faster than a photographer. 

it's real important there's no doubt in anyone's mind that it was you done it, otherwise Castro will have you killed.
---Sounds good.
---We gotta get this right.
---Sounds good.

[Walt Cakebread]

Are you saying you believe that Oswald was duped into believing it was his idea to assassinate JFK?

Thanks for asking, Dan....

I'm saying that Lee thought he was playing the same game "HOAX"  that he played at Walker's in April....At Walker's there was a bang heard...There was a bullet hole through Walker's window and a bullet recovered....NOBODY was hurt but the evidence seemed to indicate that someone had tried to kill Walker.  Which was utter nonsense....Because it the shooter had tried to kill Walker he could easily have succeeded. Walker simply sat there ( if he actually was in the room) for a minute or so before he got up and STOOD IN FRONT OF THE WINDOW.  The Walker incident was a HOAX calculated to get Lee Oswald welcomed into Cuba as an attempted assassin of Castro's enemy...General Walker.

Lee had heard that a militant group would attempt to shhot JFK in Dallas.....And he went to notify FBI agent James Hosty, and Hosty reassured him that the FBI was on top of it and he ( Lee ) could proceed with the HOAX attempt that would make it appear that he and an associate had tried to shoot JFK.    Mr Ford laid it all out in simplistic fashion a few days ago, but Alan thinks that a man could be ORDERED to comply with a hoax scheme.....Whereas If the scheme is to work, The PATSY must be allowed to believe that it's his idea....

"he went to notify FBI agent James Hosty, and Hosty reassured him that the FBI was on top of it and he ( Lee ) could proceed with the HOAX attempt that would make it appear that he and an associate had tried to shoot JFK."

Lee was desperately trying to thwart the plot...He wrote a note to Mr. Hunt  ( HL Hunt ) on November 8th, and he wrote a Note to FBI agent James Hosty on November 12th...   The goofy Telex that was a warning to Warren De Brueys was sent to the FBI in NO ( intended for Lee's handler Warren De Brueys) on November 17th......

[William Pilgrim]

Are you saying you believe that Oswald was duped into believing it was his idea to assassinate JFK?

Thanks for asking, Dan....

I'm saying that Lee thought he was playing the same game "HOAX"  that he played at Walker's in April....At Walker's there was a bang heard...There was a bullet hole through Walker's window and a bullet recovered....NOBODY was hurt but the evidence seemed to indicate that someone had tried to kill Walker.  Which was utter nonsense....Because it the shooter had tried to kill Walker he could easily have succeeded. Walker simply sat there ( if he actually was in the room) for a minute or so before he got up and STOOD IN FRONT OF THE WINDOW.  The Walker incident was a HOAX calculated to get Lee Oswald welcomed into Cuba as an attempted assassin of Castro's enemy...General Walker.

Lee had heard that a militant group would attempt to shhot JFK in Dallas.....And he went to notify FBI agent James Hosty, and Hosty reassured him that the FBI was on top of it and he ( Lee ) could proceed with the HOAX attempt that would make it appear that he and an associate had tried to shoot JFK.    Mr Ford laid it all out in simplistic fashion a few days ago, but Alan thinks that a man could be ORDERED to comply with a hoax scheme.....Whereas If the scheme is to work, The PATSY must be allowed to believe that it's his idea....

So are you saying that LHO could not be the Prayer Man due to his handlers advising him to keep out of sight at the time of the assassination, so he would not have been standing in the TSBD doorway?

[Walt Cakebread]

So are you saying that LHO could not be the Prayer Man due to his handlers advising him to keep out of sight at the time of the assassination, so he would not have been standing in the TSBD doorway?

Yes, that would be correct.   AND since this is a thread about "LHO's SHIRT" ....  Lee was wearing a reddish brown NON PLAID shirt with a button down collar that morning and he man who many believe is Lee Oswald was wearing a PLAID shirt .....The man can't be Lee.

[John Iacoletti]

Yes, you point out a major problem for these "non-Oswald involved" conspirators: in order to frame Oswald for the assassination he has to be "frameable." That is, he can't have an alibi. If he has an alibi, if others can vouch that he was with them, or he can show he was outside of the building at the time then he can't be framed.

As you also point out, the framers have to know that he has no alibi. That he was alone. They had to know where he was at the time of the shooting - in order to frame him for it - and they had to know where his co-workers were - so they couldn't say he didn't shoot JFK. If either of those happened then their entire plan collapses.

So how did they - indeed, how could they - know this? How did they know he was even in the building at the time of the shooting? And that he wasn't elsewhere? And how did they know his co-workers couldn't give him an alibi? They planted the rifle (allegedly) BEFORE his co-workers were interviewed. What happens to this act if they say to the media, to others, that he was with them and couldn't have shot JFK? They planted the rifle (and other evidence, e.g., the bag) and now it all falls apart.

These are matters they simply cannot control. And obstacles that I simply cannot see being overcome. There are limits to the ability of these conspirators - whoever you think they were; even powerful groups - to do these things.

The reason why this argument always fails is because it assumes that a plan to frame Oswald necessarily had to be in place prior to the assassination.

[John Iacoletti]

I get it. Someone must've slipped in the Hidell ID into his wallet when he wasn't looking.

What makes you think the Hidell ID was ever in his wallet?

[John Iacoletti]

The little prick killed Tippit, so deconstructing from that point suggests that Oswald remained downstairs as long as possible and made sure someone saw him, in an attempt to cast at least some doubt re making it back upstairs in time to create the ensuing commotion.

"your opinions ain't facts".

[John Iacoletti]

Sure would help if these brainiacs could name someone, other than [name your shooter here] who knew there was an attempt on Kennedy scheduled that day.

How exactly would that "help"?