Users Currently Browsing This Topic:
0 Members

Author Topic: Did Captain Fritz show Mr Oswald a Mauser?  (Read 67802 times)

Offline Alan Ford

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4820
Re: Did Captain Fritz show Mr Oswald a Mauser?
« Reply #80 on: February 13, 2021, 03:38:19 AM »
Advertisement
300 feet comes from Google Maps. The Rowlands are very specific as to their location. Google maps says that their position is about 280 feet from the column of windows in the SW corner of the TSBD; while the 6th floor window sill is about 65' above ground. Not sure how that Pythagoruses out, but the result should round to about 300 feet.
"Deer rifle" is pretty generic. Most deer hunters I know seem to prefer lever guns for the task, but 'deer rifle' is a pretty generic term for a bolt action rifle. ".30-06" is a cartridge, rather than a type of rifle.
He signed the affidavit as being "true and correct to the best of my knowledge and belief."

A few days later, he executed another statement to the FBI wherein he said that the man with the rifle was 12-15 feet inside the window.
Sometimes, highly detailed memories are red flags, and ought to be treated with some skepticism.

As I said, read his testimony --and his wife's-- as to his background, and you'll come up with a different impression of the guy. If nothing else, count up how many jobs he's held in the year leading up to Mrs Rowland's WC deposition. I get:

West Foods (Salem Oregon)
Exchange Lumber (Salem)
Myron Frank (Salem)
Pizza Inn (Dallas)
Sanger Harris (Dallas)
Civic Reading Club (Dallas)
P.F. Collier (Dallas)
Life Circulation (Dallas)
 
The Rowlands were married May 16,1963. The next day they moved to Oregon, where they stayed until September.  In their Nov 22, 1963  DCSD affidavits, the list 3026 Hammerly in Dallas. In their Mar 10, 1964  WC depositions, they  said that they lived at 1131 Phinney, also in Dallas. Then there's the Feb 19, 1964  DCSD Det. Rose report regarding trying to find the Rowlands' whereabouts. Rose finds out that that the Rowlands no longer live at the Hammerly address (which belonged to Barbara's mother). Rowland's in-laws don't know where the young couple moved to. He checks with Adamson high school, where the Rowlands attended high school in the fall of '63. School records indicate that the Arnold and Barbara live at 809 S Marsalis, which turns out to be  a "fictitious address,'" as Detective Rose notes. He's able to get a PO box from the Rowland in-laws, and finds that Rowland lists an address at 4114 Lakehurst Ct. However, the Rowlands only lived on Lakehurst from September 11, 1963 to November 14, 1963. Interestingly, that particular PO box was rented to the Rowlands on November 21, 1963, a week after the Rowlands vacated the Lakehurst address used to rent the box. 

These aren't people with particularly stable lives. There's usually a reason  for that. It's often not a good one.

Or, you can figure out if he's actually graduated from high school --there seems to be some question about that.

Mr. SPECTER - When did you graduate from high school?
Mr. ROWLAND - June 1963.

However....

Mr. BELIN. Is your husband a high school graduate or not?
Mrs. ROWLAND. No.
[...]
Mr. BELIN. Do you know how far your husband got through school?
Mrs. ROWLAND. Well, his credits are all mixed up. I think he lacks one or two semesters.
Mr. BELIN. Of completing high school?
Mrs. ROWLAND. Yes.

And there's some differences about grades:

Mr. SPECTER - Mr. Rowland, what was the quality of your grades in high school?
Mr. ROWLAND - Well, up until my senior year they were 4.0 straight A's, in my senior year I got a couple of B's.

Mr. BELIN. Do you know about what his grades were?
Mrs. ROWLAND. Varied.
Mr. BELIN. What do you mean by that?
Mrs. ROWLAND. He made A's and B's in some subjects, and he made C's and D's, I think, in other subjects.
Mr. BELIN. Was this before .you were married?
Mrs. ROWLAND. Yes. He says he has an A average, but I don't believe him.
Mr. BELIN. Why? Did he tell you that?
Mrs. ROWLAND. Yes. He told me that, because I saw a few of his report cards.
Mr. BELIN. Pardon?
Mrs. ROWLAND. I saw a few of his report cards and they weren't all A's.


Not to beat on him too hard, we have this exchange:

Mr. SPECTER - Was the sound of the fire different from the first and second sounds you described?
Mr. ROWLAND - No, that is just it. It did not sound as though there was any return fire in that sense.
Mr. SPECTER - What do you mean by return fire?
Mr. ROWLAND - That anyone fired back. You know, anyone in the procession such as our detectives or Secret Service men fired back at anything else. It gave the report of a rifle which most of the Secret Service men don't carry in a holster although I am sure they had some in the cars but the following two shots were the same report being of the same intensity, I state, because from a different position I know that the same rifle is not going to make the same sound in two different positions especially in a position such as it was, because of the ricocheting of sound and echo effects.
Mr. SPECTER - What is your basis for saying that, Mr. Rowland, that the rifle would not make the same sound in two different positions?
Mr. ROWLAND - This is due to a long study of sound and study of echo effects.
Mr. SPECTER - When had you conducted that study?
Mr. ROWLAND - In physics in the past 3 years.
Mr. SPECTER - Have you read any special books on that subject?
Mr. ROWLAND - Quite a few.
Mr. SPECTER - Do you recollect any of the titles and authors?
Mr. ROWLAND - No; I do not.
Mr. SPECTER - Did you take any special courses which would give you insight into that subject matter?
Mr. ROWLAND - This was more or less on my own initiative. The instructor gave me help and aided me when I requested this during my off periods of class.
Mr. SPECTER - What instructor was that?
Mr. ROWLAND - His name was Foster.
Mr. SPECTER - Do you recall his first name?
Mr. ROWLAND - Sam.

[...]

Senator COOPER - You said earlier that you had been much interested in and pursued studies in sounds, I believe?
Mr. ROWLAND - I have studied quite a bit of electronics, sound. Math and science is what I like.
Senator COOPER - You said you had read books on this subject. Did you ever conduct any experiments yourself?
Mr. ROWLAND - Yes; in the form of--there is a theory that sound is a basis of a transmitter and a receiver, that you have to have a receiver to have sound. There is a theory that if a tree falls down in the middle of a forest and there is nobody around where they can hear it, there is no sound.
Well, I have conducted experiments on this, and I--it is very interesting, very fascinating, but you can't prove it or you can't disprove it because if you have got a microphone there you have got a receiver.
Senator COOPER - Did you ever conduct any experiments with rifles, firing a rifle in relation to sound?
Mr. ROWLAND - Yes; in a firing range.
Senator COOPER - Beg pardon?
Mr. ROWLAND - Firing range.
Senator COOPER - Yes.
Mr. ROWLAND - I did conduct a few experiments. One of them was firing a bullet over water; you know, we were using a set of wood blocks to fire into, so we had a big vat of water that we were firing over, and we had several different articles and composition floating on the water, trying to measure the effect of the sound wave upon that. Such as this we did conduct.
Senator COOPER - I think you did say that when you heard the first report that you considered it to be a rifle shot?

And, finally, this:

Mrs. ROWLAND. At times my husband is prone to exaggerate. Does that answer it?
Mr. BELIN. I think it does.
Is there anything else you want to add to that, or not?
Mrs. ROWLAND. Usually his exaggerations are not concerned with anything other than himself. They are usually to boast his ego. They usually say that he is really smarter than he is, or he is a better salesman than he is, something like that.

Mr Rowland was an unusually gifted young man.

JFK Assassination Forum

Re: Did Captain Fritz show Mr Oswald a Mauser?
« Reply #80 on: February 13, 2021, 03:38:19 AM »


Offline Walt Cakebread

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7322
Re: Did Captain Fritz show Mr Oswald a Mauser?
« Reply #81 on: February 13, 2021, 04:49:27 AM »
Mr Rowland was an unusually gifted young man.

Hmmmm...Why are you so desperate to discredit Arnold Rowland?    I suspect it could be the same reason that LBJ'c Special Select blue ribbon committee were desperate to discredit Mr Rowland....

Offline Alan Ford

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4820
Re: Did Captain Fritz show Mr Oswald a Mauser?
« Reply #82 on: February 13, 2021, 04:52:26 AM »
Hmmmm...Why are you so desperate to discredit Arnold Rowland?    I suspect it could be the same reason that LBJ'c Special Select blue ribbon committee were desperate to discredit Mr Rowland....

Are you trying to be stupid, Mr Cakebread? I am pointing out a simple fact: Mr Rowland was an unusually gifted young man. People like him often have more difficulty getting settled in life. Thankfully, he found his metier in the end and has done brilliantly.

His testimony was/is devastating to the official story.

JFK Assassination Forum

Re: Did Captain Fritz show Mr Oswald a Mauser?
« Reply #82 on: February 13, 2021, 04:52:26 AM »


Offline Walt Cakebread

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7322
Re: Did Captain Fritz show Mr Oswald a Mauser?
« Reply #83 on: February 13, 2021, 05:14:58 AM »
Are you trying to be stupid, Mr Cakebread? I am pointing out a simple fact: Mr Rowland was an unusually gifted young man. People like him often have more difficulty getting settled in life. Thankfully, he found his metier in the end and has done brilliantly.

His testimony was/is devastating to the official story.

Are you trying to be stupid, Mr Cakebread?

Do I owe you an apology ?...I thought you were being sarcastic ....When you said..."Mr Rowland was an unusually gifted young man."

Offline Mitch Todd

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 923
Re: Did Captain Fritz show Mr Oswald a Mauser?
« Reply #84 on: February 13, 2021, 05:42:23 AM »
Mr Rowland was an unusually gifted young man.
I didn't realize how gifted until I read the background investigation that the WC did on him. Three dozen or so pages, all here:

https://catalog.archives.gov/id/7461052

At least, it's entertaining reading.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2021, 06:03:14 AM by Mitch Todd »

JFK Assassination Forum

Re: Did Captain Fritz show Mr Oswald a Mauser?
« Reply #84 on: February 13, 2021, 05:42:23 AM »


Offline Walt Cakebread

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7322
Re: Did Captain Fritz show Mr Oswald a Mauser?
« Reply #85 on: February 13, 2021, 03:14:13 PM »
I didn't realize how gifted until I read the background investigation that the WC did on him. Three dozen or so pages, all here:

https://catalog.archives.gov/id/7461052

At least, it's entertaining reading.

I didn't realize how gifted until I read the background investigation that the WC did on him.

Would you care to guess WHY....the WC dug into Arnold Rowland's background?

Offline Jack Nessan

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 993
Re: Did Captain Fritz show Mr Oswald a Mauser?
« Reply #86 on: February 13, 2021, 04:31:40 PM »
300 feet comes from Google Maps. The Rowlands are very specific as to their location. Google maps says that their position is about 280 feet from the column of windows in the SW corner of the TSBD; while the 6th floor window sill is about 65' above ground. Not sure how that Pythagoruses out, but the result should round to about 300 feet.
"Deer rifle" is pretty generic. Most deer hunters I know seem to prefer lever guns for the task, but 'deer rifle' is a pretty generic term for a bolt action rifle. ".30-06" is a cartridge, rather than a type of rifle.
He signed the affidavit as being "true and correct to the best of my knowledge and belief."

A few days later, he executed another statement to the FBI wherein he said that the man with the rifle was 12-15 feet inside the window.
Sometimes, highly detailed memories are red flags, and ought to be treated with some skepticism.

As I said, read his testimony --and his wife's-- as to his background, and you'll come up with a different impression of the guy. If nothing else, count up how many jobs he's held in the year leading up to Mrs Rowland's WC deposition. I get:

West Foods (Salem Oregon)
Exchange Lumber (Salem)
Myron Frank (Salem)
Pizza Inn (Dallas)
Sanger Harris (Dallas)
Civic Reading Club (Dallas)
P.F. Collier (Dallas)
Life Circulation (Dallas)
 
The Rowlands were married May 16,1963. The next day they moved to Oregon, where they stayed until September.  In their Nov 22, 1963  DCSD affidavits, the list 3026 Hammerly in Dallas. In their Mar 10, 1964  WC depositions, they  said that they lived at 1131 Phinney, also in Dallas. Then there's the Feb 19, 1964  DCSD Det. Rose report regarding trying to find the Rowlands' whereabouts. Rose finds out that that the Rowlands no longer live at the Hammerly address (which belonged to Barbara's mother). Rowland's in-laws don't know where the young couple moved to. He checks with Adamson high school, where the Rowlands attended high school in the fall of '63. School records indicate that the Arnold and Barbara live at 809 S Marsalis, which turns out to be  a "fictitious address,'" as Detective Rose notes. He's able to get a PO box from the Rowland in-laws, and finds that Rowland lists an address at 4114 Lakehurst Ct. However, the Rowlands only lived on Lakehurst from September 11, 1963 to November 14, 1963. Interestingly, that particular PO box was rented to the Rowlands on November 21, 1963, a week after the Rowlands vacated the Lakehurst address used to rent the box. 

These aren't people with particularly stable lives. There's usually a reason  for that. It's often not a good one.

Or, you can figure out if he's actually graduated from high school --there seems to be some question about that.

Mr. SPECTER - When did you graduate from high school?
Mr. ROWLAND - June 1963.

However....

Mr. BELIN. Is your husband a high school graduate or not?
Mrs. ROWLAND. No.
[...]
Mr. BELIN. Do you know how far your husband got through school?
Mrs. ROWLAND. Well, his credits are all mixed up. I think he lacks one or two semesters.
Mr. BELIN. Of completing high school?
Mrs. ROWLAND. Yes.

And there's some differences about grades:

Mr. SPECTER - Mr. Rowland, what was the quality of your grades in high school?
Mr. ROWLAND - Well, up until my senior year they were 4.0 straight A's, in my senior year I got a couple of B's.

Mr. BELIN. Do you know about what his grades were?
Mrs. ROWLAND. Varied.
Mr. BELIN. What do you mean by that?
Mrs. ROWLAND. He made A's and B's in some subjects, and he made C's and D's, I think, in other subjects.
Mr. BELIN. Was this before .you were married?
Mrs. ROWLAND. Yes. He says he has an A average, but I don't believe him.
Mr. BELIN. Why? Did he tell you that?
Mrs. ROWLAND. Yes. He told me that, because I saw a few of his report cards.
Mr. BELIN. Pardon?
Mrs. ROWLAND. I saw a few of his report cards and they weren't all A's.


Not to beat on him too hard, we have this exchange:

Mr. SPECTER - Was the sound of the fire different from the first and second sounds you described?
Mr. ROWLAND - No, that is just it. It did not sound as though there was any return fire in that sense.
Mr. SPECTER - What do you mean by return fire?
Mr. ROWLAND - That anyone fired back. You know, anyone in the procession such as our detectives or Secret Service men fired back at anything else. It gave the report of a rifle which most of the Secret Service men don't carry in a holster although I am sure they had some in the cars but the following two shots were the same report being of the same intensity, I state, because from a different position I know that the same rifle is not going to make the same sound in two different positions especially in a position such as it was, because of the ricocheting of sound and echo effects.
Mr. SPECTER - What is your basis for saying that, Mr. Rowland, that the rifle would not make the same sound in two different positions?
Mr. ROWLAND - This is due to a long study of sound and study of echo effects.
Mr. SPECTER - When had you conducted that study?
Mr. ROWLAND - In physics in the past 3 years.
Mr. SPECTER - Have you read any special books on that subject?
Mr. ROWLAND - Quite a few.
Mr. SPECTER - Do you recollect any of the titles and authors?
Mr. ROWLAND - No; I do not.
Mr. SPECTER - Did you take any special courses which would give you insight into that subject matter?
Mr. ROWLAND - This was more or less on my own initiative. The instructor gave me help and aided me when I requested this during my off periods of class.
Mr. SPECTER - What instructor was that?
Mr. ROWLAND - His name was Foster.
Mr. SPECTER - Do you recall his first name?
Mr. ROWLAND - Sam.

[...]

Senator COOPER - You said earlier that you had been much interested in and pursued studies in sounds, I believe?
Mr. ROWLAND - I have studied quite a bit of electronics, sound. Math and science is what I like.
Senator COOPER - You said you had read books on this subject. Did you ever conduct any experiments yourself?
Mr. ROWLAND - Yes; in the form of--there is a theory that sound is a basis of a transmitter and a receiver, that you have to have a receiver to have sound. There is a theory that if a tree falls down in the middle of a forest and there is nobody around where they can hear it, there is no sound.
Well, I have conducted experiments on this, and I--it is very interesting, very fascinating, but you can't prove it or you can't disprove it because if you have got a microphone there you have got a receiver.
Senator COOPER - Did you ever conduct any experiments with rifles, firing a rifle in relation to sound?
Mr. ROWLAND - Yes; in a firing range.
Senator COOPER - Beg pardon?
Mr. ROWLAND - Firing range.
Senator COOPER - Yes.
Mr. ROWLAND - I did conduct a few experiments. One of them was firing a bullet over water; you know, we were using a set of wood blocks to fire into, so we had a big vat of water that we were firing over, and we had several different articles and composition floating on the water, trying to measure the effect of the sound wave upon that. Such as this we did conduct.
Senator COOPER - I think you did say that when you heard the first report that you considered it to be a rifle shot?

And, finally, this:

Mrs. ROWLAND. At times my husband is prone to exaggerate. Does that answer it?
Mr. BELIN. I think it does.
Is there anything else you want to add to that, or not?
Mrs. ROWLAND. Usually his exaggerations are not concerned with anything other than himself. They are usually to boast his ego. They usually say that he is really smarter than he is, or he is a better salesman than he is, something like that.

This is just the tip of the iceberg with Rowland's statement. Little wonder he ends up bawling at the end.

Everything stated by Arnold could not withstand close scrutiny. Not only only did he reference a thirty odd size six rifle that doesn't exist.  He represents himself as being knowledgeable about guns, but then makes up his own caliber and makes the statement it is an import and he knows the caliber "30 odd size 6" from 200 feet away. There is no such rifle as a “30 odd size 6”.  A 30-06 is not an import rifle it was the standard cartridge of the US Military through two world wars and the Korean conflict. Everything about Rowlands statement indicates he was making it up as he went.


 He gave three different answers to the question of did he look at the window after h heard the shots. He replied yes, no and maybe.

..-------------

 Representative FORD - You never again, after the motorcade once came into your view, looked back at the School Depository Building?

Mr. ROWLAND - I did after the shots were fired.

.------------------

MAYBE ANSWER:

Mr. SPECTER - Did you have any impression or reaction as to the point of origin when you heard the first noise?

Mr. ROWLAND - Well, I began looking, I didn't look at the building mainly, and as practically any of' the police officers that were there then will tell you, the echo effect was such that it sounded like it came from the railroad yards. That is where I looked, that is where all the policemen, everyone, converged on the railroads.

--------

NO ANSWER:

Mr. SPECTER - After the shots occurred, did you ever look back at the Texas School Book Depository Building?

Mr. ROWLAND - No; I did not. In fact, I went over toward the scene of the railroad yards myself.


He also could not properly describe how a person would look framed in the window. Arnold did not know the window was installed 14 inches off the floor and ended up describing some person who at the most would have been 3.5 to 4 feet tall. Every time Specter would catch him in these obvious fairy tales he would repeatedly ask him question him about it, just to make the point Arnold was making the story up.

Offline Jack Nessan

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 993
Re: Did Captain Fritz show Mr Oswald a Mauser?
« Reply #87 on: February 13, 2021, 04:43:36 PM »
A :thirty odd size six"rifle does not exist.

What a dumb and weak attempt at a rebuttal!....

30.06 refers to the CARTRIDGE.....  Not a rifle.... It is the CALIBER of a rifle.   However it is very common to use thirty aught six to identify a rifle, when referring to a rifle that is designed to fire the 30.06 CARTRIDGE

A 30.06 rifle ( aka: thirty aught six ) does exist....In fact there are thousand's of them....  And most folks refer to the rifles that are chambered to fire the 30.06 CARTRIDGE as a thirty aught six   ...HOWEVER ...Some ignorant neophytes erroneously call any big game hunting rifle.... a "thirty aught six".  Even though the rifle they are referring to might actually be designed to fire the 7.65 Belgian Mauser cartridge....( I believe that young Arnold Rowland fell into this category)

Some southerners, in their southern drawl, pronounce 30.06 as  thurty odd six ....

More to the point.....Arnold Rowland, was about 150 feet away from the man with the HUNTING rifle with a large scope, so he  nor any mortal man, could know the CALIBER of the rifle that the khaki clad man was holding.....   

Nice and entertaining too, before the end of this post you completely contradicted yourself. The only part you get right was what I posted years ago. The only takeaway from this post is you obviously know very little about firearms. Maybe only post on subjects you know a little about.

JFK Assassination Forum

Re: Did Captain Fritz show Mr Oswald a Mauser?
« Reply #87 on: February 13, 2021, 04:43:36 PM »