SURPLUS CARCANO MODEL 91 TS RIFLE 6.5X52MM - USED SURPLUS CONDITION

[Walt Cakebread]

Too bad there isn’t any evidence that Oswald (or anyone else) ever picked up any rifle at any P.O.

Cool story, bro!

John, If we could go back in time....I'd bet you a steak dinner that PO Inspector Holmes DID have a record ( probably a photo record) of the person who picked up the Carcano at the PO.    There are two people high on my list of the person who picked up the Carcano at the PO.   Georgie, or his wife Jeannie......  But that info was dumped when  they were working on framing Lee Oswald.  It's unrealistic to believe that Hoover wasn't keeping tabs on the Oswald's and when a commie receives a rifle through the mail you can bet that Hoover would have been notified.

I realize that this is speculation...but it's not without evidence ( the fact that Lee couldn't have been at the PO to buy the MO or mail it from a couple of miles away ...Nor did he have the funds to buy that MO.....And there is a small mountain of evidence that Lee and George were talkin about General Walker.... and in a derisive manner....

[Walt Cakebread]

Just because the FPCC card had "AJ Hidell" on it doesn't mean that Lee was using that as a name for himself and it didn't refer to somebody else.

John, You know in your heart that Lee wouldn't have had that Hidell if he wasn't using it....  I'd hasten to remind you that intel agents routinely use an alias , ...And Lee was an intel agent.   ( Who was he working for....?)

I believe that Lee thought he was working for RFK....and he saw no problem in working for the FBI at the same time.

I also have no problem believing that Lee ordered the Carcano From Kleins......   And he definitely had a carcano in his possession in April of 1963.   All of this is negated by the FACT that the Carcano was NOT the murder weapon....and In fact it was not even fired that day.   That Carcano was buried beneath boxes of books at the time of the murder.

[John Iacoletti]

John, You know in your heart that Lee wouldn't have had that Hidell if he wasn't using it....  I'd hasten to remind you that intel agents routinely use an alias , ...And Lee was an intel agent.   ( Who was he working for....?)

There's no good reason to assume that Hidell on the FPCC leaflets referred to Oswald and not somebody else. Why would he use his real name on some of them if Hidell was his own alias?

I also have no problem believing that Lee ordered the Carcano From Kleins......

That's fine, but handwriting "analysis" is unscientific and biased, even on original documents with large samples.

   And he definitely had a carcano in his possession in April of 1963.

You can't determine that merely from the photograph.  Besides, there's this:

Mr. RANKIN. Do you recall the day that you took the picture of him with the rifle and the pistol?
Mrs. OSWALD. I think that that was towards the end of February, possibly the beginning of March. I can't say exactly. Because I didn't attach any significance to it at the time. That was the only time I took any pictures.

[Jerry Freeman]

Too bad there isn’t any evidence that Oswald (or anyone else) ever picked up any rifle at any P.O. Cool story, bro!

Entire threads devoted to that and still there is no evidence of such.
 

You know in your heart that Lee wouldn't have had that Hidell [card] if he wasn't using it

No one ever reported that he had used this card as ID or anything else.
As far as ID goes... how acceptable would it have been?
Most of the card isn't even filled out and what is.... is all but obliterated.
I have read that the photo is Oswald in the USSR. No proof of that either.
 
 

Note how "Hidell" is mis-spelled here----
 

I believe that the Hidell identity was invented in New Orleans and Guy Banister may have been involved.

[Jerry Freeman]

I also have no problem believing that Lee ordered the Carcano From Kleins......   And he definitely had a carcano in his possession in April of 1963.

No one has ever explained how that rifle got to New Orleans and then how it got back to Irving with no one ever seeing it [according to testimony] If Mrs Paine had stated that she had loaded it up on the bus to New Orleans and had brought it back in a blanket...it would have clinched it with me. However..............

All of this is negated by the FACT that the Carcano was NOT the murder weapon....and In fact it was not even fired that day.   That Carcano was buried beneath boxes of books at the time of the murder.

I concur .....Raises a question...Why would Oswald buy a rifle or pistol anyway? It was never conclusively shown that he had ever fired any gun after coming back to Texas with Marina and child.

It has been stated on this forum many times that the  De Mohrenschildts saw Oswald's rifle...That Mr De M asked Oswald about shooting Walker.

Mr. JENNER. Was there ever an occasion after this time, when you and Mrs. De Mohrenschildt came to see the Oswalds, that as soon as you opened the door, you said, "Lee, how is it possible that you missed?"
Mr. De MOHRENSCHILDT. Never. I don't recall that incident.
Mr. JENNER. Mr. De Mohrenschildt, up to that moment, is it your testimony that you never knew and had no inkling whatsoever, that the Oswalds had a rifle or other weapon in their home?
Mr. De MOHRENSCHILDT. Absolutely positive that personally I didn't know a damn thing about it, positive, neither did my wife.
Mr. JENNER. And as far as you know your wife didn't either?
Mr. De MOHRENSCHILDT. No.
Mr. JENNER. Did you see the weapon?
Mr. De MOHRENSCHILDT. I did not see the weapon.

Now...OK Jeanne DeM told counsel about a rifle that she said she saw in the closet.... but her story stunk.
Why would Marina be showing Jeanne the house and then show her the closet [with a rifle in sight yet]?
Women don't do that. They show the kitchen, the dining room, the bedroom, the baby crib, but the closet? Nah closets stink.
And this supposed rifle isn't concealed in any way what-so-ever no blanket or anything?
And I have asked many times...where was the ammo and gun cleaning supplies?

[Jerry Freeman]

To address the topic...Should someone happen to buy a case of these Carcano rifles? I would gladly like to purchase one.

[Walt Cakebread]

No one has ever explained how that rifle got to New Orleans and then how it got back to Irving with no one ever seeing it [according to testimony] If Mrs Paine had stated that she had loaded it up on the bus to New Orleans and had brought it back in a blanket...it would have clinched it with me. However.............. I concur .....Raises a question...Why would Oswald buy a rifle or pistol anyway? It was never conclusively shown that he had ever fired any gun after coming back to Texas with Marina and child.

It has been stated on this forum many times that the  De Mohrenschildts saw Oswald's rifle...That Mr De M asked Oswald about shooting Walker.
Now...OK Jeanne DeM told counsel about a rifle that she said she saw in the closet.... but her story stunk.
Why would Marina be showing Jeanne the house and then show her the closet [with a rifle in sight yet]?
Women don't do that. They show the kitchen, the dining room, the bedroom, the baby crib, but the closet? Nah closets stink.
And this supposed rifle isn't concealed in any way what-so-ever no blanket or anything?
And I have asked many times...where was the ammo and gun cleaning supplies?

No one has ever explained how that rifle got to New Orleans and then how it got back to Irving with no one ever seeing


There's not a iota of doubt in my mind that the carcano did not go to New Orleans on the bus with Lee.....A sea bag is NOT long enough to hold a carcano.   And you're right Jerry,    Nobody ever saw a rifle in Lee Oswald's possession after the Walker hoax and the murder of JFK,  except Marina.   And Marina couldn't identify the carcano as the rifle that she saw in the closet.

The BY photo  (CE 133A ) does in fact show a model 91/38 carcano in Lee Oswald's hands....and it possible that it is the same rifle that was buried beneath boxes of books in the TSBD at the time of the shooting.....but all that indicates is that the carcano was not the murder weapon and it indicates that Lee was being set up as the patsy.   

I suspect that De M actually owned the carcano because he had provided the money to purchase it ....   And after the flop of the Walker hoax and the police failed to find the throw down gun that Lee had left near the scene De M was desperate to get that rifle back...and he told Lee to get his butt out to the site where he had left the carcano and bring it back to him.  I believe that Lee did in fact return the carcano to George De M.  ( in the middle of the night on April 13)  I believe that De M took the carcano that night and put it in storage along with other personal property before he hightailed it out of Dallas and went back to Langley Va. to be debriefed before his next assignment.

[Walt Cakebread]

There's no good reason to assume that Hidell on the FPCC leaflets referred to Oswald and not somebody else. Why would he use his real name on some of them if Hidell was his own alias?

That's fine, but handwriting "analysis" is unscientific and biased, even on original documents with large samples.

You can't determine that merely from the photograph.  Besides, there's this:

Mr. RANKIN. Do you recall the day that you took the picture of him with the rifle and the pistol?
Mrs. OSWALD. I think that that was towards the end of February, possibly the beginning of March. I can't say exactly. Because I didn't attach any significance to it at the time. That was the only time I took any pictures.

Are you aware of the reason that Lee wanted to talk to the FBI after his arrest in New Orleans?.

Guy Bannister had gave Lee some some booklets that he had in his office..... Lee's mission when he went to NO was to find out who was supplying the arms and training for the Cuban exiles who were attacking Cuba.  Lee had gathered enough information so he could report what he had found.   Lee knew that Bannister was the leader of the New Orleans band of renegades.   Something that Bannister had stamped inside the back cover of the booklet revealed that the operation was being run out of 544 Camp street ( Bannister's office)   Lee kept one of the booklets that Bannister had gave him and he showed that booklet with Bannister's address stamped inside to the FBI agent who showed up at the NO jail.    BIG MISTAKE!....  FBI agent Warren De Brueys and Guy Bannister were close friends so Bannister learned immediately that Lee Oswald was a spy and a snitch.