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Author Topic: Oswald's shot-1 ricochet was at Z113 or Z105.  (Read 44683 times)

Online Marjan Rynkiewicz

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Re: Oswald's shot-1 was at Z113.
« Reply #24 on: April 06, 2021, 01:12:27 AM »
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Here is the highway marker in a printscreen from the 1963 Secret Service Reconstruction.

« Last Edit: April 06, 2021, 01:13:34 AM by Marjan Rynkiewicz »

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Re: Oswald's shot-1 was at Z113.
« Reply #24 on: April 06, 2021, 01:12:27 AM »


Online Marjan Rynkiewicz

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Re: Oswald's shot-1 was at Z113.
« Reply #25 on: April 06, 2021, 01:31:40 AM »
The highway marker signs as seen by Oswald from 6th floor.


Online Marjan Rynkiewicz

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Re: Oswald's shot-1 was at Z113.
« Reply #26 on: April 06, 2021, 01:49:09 AM »
FEDERAL BUREAU OF INVESTIGATION  Date January 10, 1964
T.E. MOORE, Deputy District Court Clerk, Records Building, advised that on November 22, 1963, he took his lunch hour to observe the Presidential Motorcade. He was standing at the southeast corner of Elm and Houston and observed the motorcade going by, turning west from Houston to Elm Street. By the time President KENNEDY had reached the Thornton Freeway sign, a shot was fired and Mr. MOORE observed the President slumping forward in the Presidential car. Mr. MOORE heard two more shots fired, however, the President was out of Mr. MOORE's sight at the time the last two were fired. Mr. MOORE noticed some of the bystanders on the north side of Elm Street below the concrete pavillion, rushing away from the street across the grass toward the concrete pavilion. Mr. MOORE stated that at the sound of the first shot, he looked up toward the Texas School Book Depository because the shot sounded like it had come from a high area, however, he did not observe anything noteworthy at the Texas School Book Depository.
He stated that approximately ten minutes later, the Texas School Book Depository was surrounded by police officers.
___________________________________________________________________________________________
on 1-8-64 at Dallas, Texas File # DL 100-10461  By Special Agent GEORGE T. BINNEY Date Dictated 1-9-64


This FBI report is rubbish. 
Moore was standing i think on the south east corner, not the south west.
Moore did not say that the first shot was when JFK was near the large Thornton Freeway sign (at Z200 approx)(shot-2 was at Z218), he would have said that it was when JFK was near the small highway marker signs just past the signals (at Z113).  Agent Binney made an honest mistake, or more likely it was dishonest, an early shot would magnify the perception that the Secret Service Agents responded much too slowly.
« Last Edit: August 28, 2021, 01:56:03 AM by Marjan Rynkiewicz »

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Re: Oswald's shot-1 was at Z113.
« Reply #26 on: April 06, 2021, 01:49:09 AM »


Online Marjan Rynkiewicz

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Re: Oswald's shot-1 was at Z113.
« Reply #27 on: April 11, 2021, 10:19:30 AM »
I found a new witness, HOWARD WHATLEY, who said that shot-1 came just as the limo got straight on Elm St, ie near the signals, ie near my Z113 (ie not at Z160 or Z180 or whatever). Howard posted the following wordage on another forum.

Howard Whatley  (3 years ago)(edited).
………………..I was there sir and heard 4 to 6 shots.  I was  about 25 ft. east of TSBD.  You could tell the difference, 1 shot was low kinda muffled, came just as the limo got straight on Elm,  i'm sure it missed.
………………. That's right, and the two were different sounds, the first of the two wasn't quite as loud the second, sounded lower in tone but louder.  Iv'e killed many deer and hogs, and the sound of a bullet hitting a skull or anything else does not make a sound similar to the actual discharge of a rifle.  Sometimes a popping sound is conman.
…………… Right, strictly by chance, i didn't even know he was coming until they told us at the courthouse.  Went there to get manage licence.  Never spoke much about it.  Went back to camp Pendleton Sunday, came back home in jan 1964.  My  wife and i made a vow not to tell anyone and i kept it until she passed away in 2005.   There's a couple things i never heard anyone mention, what i saw and heard some of the witness' have said and some the complete opposite.   Will say without any doubt there were more than three shots, and the last came so close together no way did they come from a bolt action rifle.

« Last Edit: April 11, 2021, 10:22:14 AM by Marjan Rynkiewicz »

Online Marjan Rynkiewicz

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Re: Oswald's shot-1 was at Z113.
« Reply #28 on: April 14, 2021, 05:58:29 AM »
Barbara Rowland was standing on the east side of Houston St about 150ft from the TSBD.  She said that the first shot was as they turned the corner.  Her husband said that the first shot was as they started down Elm St.


https://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh6/html/WC_Vol6_0097b.htm

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Re: Oswald's shot-1 was at Z113.
« Reply #28 on: April 14, 2021, 05:58:29 AM »


Online Marjan Rynkiewicz

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Re: Oswald's shot-1 was at Z113.
« Reply #29 on: April 14, 2021, 06:41:31 AM »
At 1:20 Connally says …… "we had just turned the corner, we heard a shot…."
Notice that Connally is confused, he thinks that JFK had been badly wounded by the first shot, but in fact JFK & Connally had been both hit by the magic bullet ie the 2nd shot at Z218.
« Last Edit: April 14, 2021, 06:46:57 AM by Marjan Rynkiewicz »

Online Marjan Rynkiewicz

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Re: Oswald's shot-1 was at Z113.
« Reply #30 on: May 05, 2021, 01:18:58 PM »
I found a new witness, Christopher, who reckons that Oswald's shot-1 didn't touch the signals/backboard.
11 March 2007 -- 11 Seconds in Dallas, Not Six -- By Max Holland and Johann W. Rush.
https://www.washingtondecoded.com/site/2007/03/11-seconds-in-d.html

Christopher
I was an electrician's apprentice charged with changing out the traffic signals in 2004, when Dallas went from 8" light bulb to 12" LED.
The one signal I never Ebay'd or sold for scrap is the one from the mast arm over Elm.
By most accounts, it looks similar to the ones depicted in the pictures I see; and from what I can tell, it's a roughly 1947 model signal.
I'm looking at it right now, and while I don't see any dents that appear bullet-like,
I can tell you that the rectangular tin frame around the signal was installed slightly crooked,
which allows more light to come through on the bottom-right corner (closest to the depository).
This might explain why some thought there was bullet-damage on the light itself, as opposed to the mast arm.
Had I read this a decade ago, I'd have checked that arm for ya ;^).
Posted by: Christopher | 12 September 2013 at 02:25 AM


In that article Holland says that Oswald's shot-1 was 1.4 sec before Z133, which makes it at Z107-108, timewise.
I reckon it was at Z113, timewise. So, we differ timewise, & i bet that Holland is less wrong than me.
But pozzy-wize we agree to the inch, shot-1 was when JFK was in line with the signal arm.



Actually we can see a hole near the lower right corner in this here Oswald's view too, but it aint a bullet hole.


The camera in the limo must have been nearly into the left lane. But if the limo & the camera were properly positioned then its line of sight to Oswald would be some inches left of the collar or coupling, ie the slug would have ricocheted off the guy rod not the 2" arm.
 
« Last Edit: May 06, 2021, 01:26:56 PM by Marjan Rynkiewicz »

Online Marjan Rynkiewicz

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Re: Oswald's shot-1 was at Z113.
« Reply #31 on: May 06, 2021, 08:33:57 AM »


Moore apparently was referring to the Thornton Freeway sign, which has highway numbers on it.



It could be Moore in the 1960s was familiar with the sign being called Thornton, but by the 1980s wasn't able to recall the term Thornton.

Moore wasn't side-to to the limousine, so his estimation that the President "had reached the Thronton Freeway sign" at the moment of the first shot would have been from an oblique view. It seems to work well with a first shot in the Z150s, being heard by some about Z161. A first shot in the Z200s would probably mean the President was blocked from Moore's view by the Queen Mary and the agents stood on the car's running boards.

The cluster sign stand you refer to could not be characterized as a "highway marker sign". The "RL Thornton Freeway" sign refers to a highway.
My Reply#23 says that Moore said a small highway marker sign, in front of the TSBD.
The twin cluster sign stand a half car length past the signals has nothing but highway markers, about 14 of them.
The Thornton sign is not a small highway marker, but as u say it has 6 little highway markers below.
Strange, the last time i looked at the FBI report it had two errors, it nominated the Thornton sign, &, it had Moore standing near the wrong corner, someone has doctored the wording.
Moore said he was standing 6 or 8 paces out into the intersection from the southeast corner.
And, he said he could see all of the action down Elm St, subject of course as u say to being blocked by Queen Mary & Co.
And, if the JFK limo had just then straightened on Elm, then the question of judging distance doesnt rear its ugly head.

Is Thornton a Freeway or is it a turnpike?  Or is Stemmons a turnpike, praps a long way further north.
The furtherest sign says that there is some kind of turnpike before Fort Worth.

Oswald shot-1. JFK at distance one limo length past the signals. Ricochets off western side of western signal arm guy rod. Hull found at SN.
Oswald shot-1. Oswald fired at T137 which is say Z112, slug lands at T138 ie Z113, noise arrives at T139 ie Z114.
Max Holland says shot-1 was at time Z107-8.
Dale Myers says that shot-1 was at i think T150 or some silly such late number. No it was at T138.
Oswald shot-1. A spray of fine lead hits the back of JFK's head (XRays).
Remnant slug makes non-round hole in limo floor (photo), & probly hits driveshaft & road (& aint found).
The FMJ broke in 2 as is usual (CE567 CE569 found in limo).

Oswald shot-2. JFK at time & distance Z218 (the magic bullet)(found). Hull found at SN.

Hickey shot-1. JFK at time & distance Z313, blows some of JFK's head off (small lead fragments found in head)'
Hickey shot-1. Remnant slug veered 6 deg & cracked glass (& aint found).
Hickey shot-2. JFK at time Z316 (slug makes dent in chrome trim)(& aint found).
Hickey shot-3. JFK at time Z319 (slug hits tarmac Elm St)(possibly wounded Tague)(& aint found).
Hickey shot-4. JFK at time Z321 (slug hits curb Elm St)(possibly wounded Tague)(& aint found).
Hickey shot-5. JFK at time Z324 (slug hits grass)(& aint found).
Hickey shot-6. JFK at time Z327 (if Hickey fired 6 shots)(slug hits curb Main St)(possibly wounded Tague).
[edit][i have now established that it was shot-6 or at least the last shot that was the JFK headshot, ie shot-5 dented the chrome trim, shot-1 possibly wounded Tague etc.][see my thread Bronson Saw Hickey Shoot JFK.]
None of the 5 or 6 hulls are found. They must have somehow stayed in Queen Mary, & were picked up by Agents on the way to Parklands, & secreted.
The AR15 01 fired at 400 rps (but zero footages on youtube) & would have ejected the hulls say half the distance of modern AR15's which fired at 1200 rps (when autos were still legal)(lots of footages of ejections & ejaculations on youtube).
« Last Edit: May 12, 2021, 11:15:23 PM by Marjan Rynkiewicz »

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Re: Oswald's shot-1 was at Z113.
« Reply #31 on: May 06, 2021, 08:33:57 AM »