Oswald's shot-1 ricochet was at Z113 or Z105.

[Marjan Rynkiewicz]

That's just silly.  The location of fragments tells you nothing about where somebody was aiming or who it was.  And there is ZERO evidence of this alleged ricochet off the traffic light.

There is a youtube of tests done on (i think Oswald kind of) bullets ricocheting off (signal arm kind of) steel tube.
The fragments hit a plywood target.
There were 3 kinds of groups of holes (ie groups of fragments).
The smallest ricochet fragments (small bits of lead) ricocheted at the shallowest angle (eg the right-back of JFK's head).
The full copper jacket always broke into 2 pieces (eg CE567 CE569)(koz the jacket was made in 2 pieces, welded together), both ricocheting at a larger angle.
The remnant lead slug ricocheted at the largest angle (this made the hole in the limo floor, found Dec 1963)(see the pix in reply#14).

If anyone knows the youtube showing the ricochet tests off steel tube then i would appreciate it if u could advise of the link.

See also #23 & #27 regarding Whatley (hearing a shot that missed)(near the signals) & Moore hearing a shot near the signals.
See also #14.

[Marjan Rynkiewicz]

FORENSIC SCIENCE AND PRESIDENT KENNEDY'S HEAD WOUNDS
Michael T. Griffith 2002 @All Rights Reserved Second Edition
https://miketgriffith.com/files/forensic.htm

Another Bullet Fragment in the Back of the Head
When the HSCA had outside experts examine the autopsy skull x-rays, the experts discovered a bullet fragment that had not been noted before. Dr. G. M. McDonnel discovered the fragment. He noted it was embedded in the galea, which is a layer located between the scalp and the skull, and that it was slightly to the left of the 6.5 mm object. This fragment is further evidence that Kennedy's head was struck by ricochet material from a bullet that struck the pavement. As absurd as the shearing explanation is for the 6.5 mm object, it's even more absurd for this second fragment, since this fragment is located to the left of the 6.5 mm object and is embedded in a different layer. Donahue argued this fragment must have come from the bullet that several witnesses saw strike the pavement. He concluded there was no other credible explanation for the fragment's presence and location:
. . . details surfaced in the committee's own documents that indicated Kennedy very likely was hit by not one, but rather a barrage of ricochet fragments.
The medical evidence appendix published in early 1979 contained reports from two radiologists who'd independently examined the President's skull X rays. One of these physicians, Dr. G. M. McDonnel of Los Angeles, wrote that in addition to the Fisher fragment [the 6.5 mm object], he'd identified a second bullet piece on the exterior of Kennedy's skull. McDonnel's fragment was smaller than Fisher's and located slightly to its left. Unlike the Fisher fragment, this new shard was not attached to the bone but was embedded in the galea, the tough, rubbery membrane between the scalp and the skull.
The presence of this second bullet piece obviously strengthened Donahue's conclusions about the first-shot ricochet. So too did information provided by the second outside expert, Dr. David O. Davis, chairman of the radiology department at George Washington University Hospital. Davis wrote that his examination of the X rays revealed a number of skull fragments that appeared to be dispersed across the right side of Kennedy's head in such a way as to suggest they were located not inside the skull, but outside it, embedded in the scalp.
Davis said he was at a loss to explain where these fragments might have come from and his startling suggestion that the right side of Kennedy's scalp may have been peppered with lead did not make it into the medical panel's final report. As for the fragment discovered by McDonnel, the panel asserted this fragment, like Fisher's, had probably sheared off the fatal bullet on impact.
McDonnel, however, apparently was not totally in accord with this explanation. Instead, he proposed the two fragments may have somehow worked their way back out through the entrance wound and attached themselves to the outside of the skull and galea during the transport and handling of the President's body.
To Donahue, this explanation was even more absurd than Baden's shear interpretation, since it would have been virtually impossible for the pieces to migrate from the point of the bullet's disintegration through the shredded, semisolid brain mass all the way back to the entrance wound, then pass through the small hole to affix themselves finally outside the skull. . . .
Donahue . . . believed that the location of the fragments on both the rear and now the side of Kennedy's head precluded any possibility except a ricochet. (Menninger, Mortal Error, pp. 160-161)
There is no way to explain the presence of this additional fragment in the back of the head in the context of the Warren Commission's lone-gunman scenario. Donahue was almost certainly correct: The fragment must have come from the bullet that several witnesses saw strike the pavement near the limousine when the limousine was passing beneath the oak tree or from another additional bullet that was fired during the assassination. It most certainly did not come from an FMJ bullet that struck Kennedy in the back of the head.

[Marjan Rynkiewicz]

Here is a still from i think Dale Myer's footage.
Dale's footage is slightly wrong. The guy rods are shown too thin, they were thicker.
Also the guy rods coupling collar is shown too far left, it was much closer to JFK.
Oswald's shot-1 actually ricocheted off a guy rod, not the main support arm.
But i have ignored that & i have shown a star showing a ricochet on/off the arm.
The main thing is that some small lead fragments hit JFK in the right rear of his head (Xrays), as per the second star.
And then the remnant lead slug put a hole in the floor (third star).
And the 2 bits of copper jacket ricocheted somewhere in between the second and third stars.

[Andrew Mason]

You mentioned a witness named "Whatley", but I'm not familiar with this person.  Could you link the source for who this witness was and what they said?

In his statement from January 1964, TE Moore said that JFK had reached the Thornton freeway sign when the first shot was fired.  The general timing of this would have been around Z180-Z200 and can be referenced by the Betzner photo which shows the limo position at Z186 relative to the Thornton freeway sign:



Moore is one of many witnesses connecting the first shot with the Z180-Z200 timeframe, which directly challenges all theories which have a shot fired before Z170 and confirms that the Zapruder film jiggle Z190-Z210 is a result of Zapruder being startled by the first shot.

One very important point about John Connally's statement is that he said he heard a shot fired 2 second before he was hit, but he never heard the shot that hit him.  In other words the only shots he heard were the shots fired around Z185, and Z310.  This may mean that the 2 second delay was a body shock of some kind and there wasn't a shot fired at Z218 (as the HSCA suggested), or it means there were shots at Z185 and Z218 but he failed to hear the Z218 shot as he was distracted by the pain of the injury.

Sadly this dilemma cannot be resolved by Connally's statement alone, and the other witnesses are split somewhat: most say there was only one shot before JFK raised his arms, but enough mentioned two shots in quick succession so it should be seriously considered as a possibility.

Your points are well taken.  The evidence does not support an first shot before Betzner's z186 photo.

However, while many witnesses recalled a shot pattern with two shots in rapid succession, the vast majority (over 40) specifically recalled the last two shots in rapid succession.  See my compilation of these witnesses.

What this evidence tells us is that there was only one shot before the midpoint between shots 1 and 3 with the first shot not being before z186 and the last shot at z312-3

[Marjan Rynkiewicz]

I found the DeRonja article re the Oswald Shot-1 ricochet off the signal arm.
But it doesn't have the info about the copper jacket breaking into 2 pieces.
I think that there is a Haag article or Haag youtube footage that shows the 2 pieces.
If anyone knows of this, or finds it, please let me know. Thanx.

https://www.acsr.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/DeRonja-Holland-2.pdf
A Technical Investigation Pertaining to the First Shot Fired in the JFK Assassination
Article Frank S. DeRonja1 , MS Engr & Max Holland2 1 Forensic Metallurgy Associates, Springfield, VA, USA

21. Haag LC. The Missing Bullet in the JFK Assassination. AFTE J. 2015;47(2):75.
23. Haag MG, Haag LC. Shooting Incident Reconstruction. San Diego (CA): Academic Press; 2011, 238.

[Marjan Rynkiewicz]

Moore saw that shot-1 was when JFK was just past the signals, not when near the Thornton sign (the FBI wrongly mentioned the Thornton sign).
Hence in fact Moore confirms that Oswald's shot-1 was at say Z113 (or even earlier as per Holland).
Anyhow, JFK duznt slump here, but he raises his right hand/arm, koz small lead fragments ricochet into the right-back of his head (seen in xrays).

Hence, if the FBI were wrong re the Thornton sign, then we might add that it was the FBI that wrongly mentioned that Moore couldnt see JFK for the next 2 shots.
Or, Moore was wrong (if the FBI report aint wrong).

I doubt that Moore could see throo the 10 agents -- 5 sitting low, 1 sitting hi (Hickey), and 4 standing -- in Queen Mary!
Plus could he see throo the raised sun shades on the windshield.
Plus there is a serious crest, where Elm St starts to fall (5.8%), and hence Moore (standing say 60 ft east of the crest) has an effective eye height of only say 3 ft 0 in instead of 5 ft 6 in.
Hence Moore probly couldnt see JFK at Oswald's shot-2, at Z218, nor when JFK very slightly slumps after Z218.

Just before Z313 the gawkers standing on the south west corner of Elm & Houston run out onto Elm St (& Tina Towner runs out too), and hence they block Moore's view of JFK at the last shot(s) at Z313 & just before Z313, ie Hickey's shots-1234 & probly a shot-5, & possibly a shot-6.
And re JFK slumping, this would have been well after Z313, eg Z333.

No, Moore never saw JFK slump.

[Marjan Rynkiewicz]

The 3 stars show approx JFK at Z113 (shot-1) & Z218 (shot-2) & Z313 (Hickey shot-4 or 5 or 6).
There is a 5.8% grade in Elm St, with crest near Houston St.

[Marjan Rynkiewicz]

Here is view from eye-level (say 5 ft 6 in) standing on the footpath on the north-east corner of Elm & Houston.
Note that the eye/camera here is in effect below the level of the road when JFK is at Z218 and Z313, ie a level of minus say 1 ft 0 in.
Which suggests that Moore's eye-level when standing near the south-east corner was say 3 ft 0 in.
I dont know how/why Google took this at 5 ft 6 in, they usually have their car/camera at about 7 ft 0 in (just guessing).
I think Ethan Ferguson took this 360 deg panorama.

The young lady is crossing exactly where Oswald crossed, after he had gone a little way up Houston, before he did a U-turn & crossed Houston (on a slight angle), & then crossed Elm, except that he was holding a bottle of Coca Cola.