Oswald's shot-1 ricochet was at Z113 or Z105.

[Andrew Mason]

At 1:00 Tina says that the first shot was at about when she stopped filming.
But i still have not been able to find the footage where she says that she wasn’t sure whether the first shot was before or after she stopped filming.
Anyhow, i say that the first shot was at Z111, slug ricocheted at Z112, sound hit JFK at Z113.
Holland said that the first shot was at i think Z103.

Tina Towner has always been consistent in saying that the first shot occurred seconds after she stopped filming. 

• In the earliest interview for a teen magazine in 1968 she said that she started walking back to the corner to get ready to leave when the first shot sounded. (Towner, Tina. "View From the Corner." Teen June 1968: 46-49, 90).
  
• In her written statement filed with the Sixth Floor Museum she said that the first shot sounded 4-6 seconds after she stopped filming. In an email to me from Gary Mack of March 1, 2007, Gary stated:
  "I've known Tina Towner since 1978 and my memory has been that she said the first shot came just a second or two after she stopped filming. However, in a March 30, 1996 oral history, Tina said it was four to six seconds.  So either I have misremembered, which is possible, or her memory has changed.
• In a 2013 report of a presentation Tina made in Greenville, TX it is stated:
  “I heard the first gunshot right after I quit taking the film,” Towner said, as she appeared last week before the Greenville Kiwanis Club.
  ...
  She said she heard the first shots “about two seconds” after she stopped filming."
  

So Max Holland is twisting her words to fit his nice theory that does not fit with any facts.

[Marjan Rynkiewicz]

Tina Towner has always been consistent in saying that the first shot occurred seconds after she stopped filming. 

• In the earliest interview for a teen magazine in 1968 she said that she started walking back to the corner to get ready to leave when the first shot sounded. (Towner, Tina. "View From the Corner." Teen June 1968: 46-49, 90).
  
• In her written statement filed with the Sixth Floor Museum she said that the first shot sounded 4-6 seconds after she stopped filming. In an email to me from Gary Mack of March 1, 2007, Gary stated:
  "I've known Tina Towner since 1978 and my memory has been that she said the first shot came just a second or two after she stopped filming. However, in a March 30, 1996 oral history, Tina said it was four to six seconds.  So either I have misremembered, which is possible, or her memory has changed.
• In a 2013 report of a presentation Tina made in Greenville, TX it is stated:
  “I heard the first gunshot right after I quit taking the film,” Towner said, as she appeared last week before the Greenville Kiwanis Club.
  ...
  She said she heard the first shots “about two seconds” after she stopped filming."
  

So Max Holland is twisting her words to fit his nice theory that does not fit with any facts.

Yes i think that her statement that shot-1 was just before or just after she stopped filming was to Holland & might have been a soft version to not overly offend his theory that shot-1 was at Z103 (my Z113), or at least when JFK was in line with the Oswald's view in line with the overhead signal arm.
However, Holland was not twisting her words, her words are her words, unless the footage was cleverly edited.
However, Holland might have pressured her in the usual ways.

However, Holland was correct (place wize)(if not time wize). The "solid-facts" tell us that. Witness statements are all quasi-facts, pseudo-facts & faux-facts.
So, either Tina miss-remembered, or, she miss-heard.
If what she says was shot-1 was shot-2 then Tina's 4 sec makes sense, koz most of us agree that (Oswald's) shot-2 was 5 or 6 sec after (Oswald's) shot-1.
Shot-1 was at T137 (possibly Z113 say i)(Z103 says Holland i think), & Tina stopped filming at T142 (possibly Z118)(Z108).

[Andrew Mason]

Yes i think that her statement that shot-1 was just before or just after she stopped filming was to Holland & might have been a soft version to not overly offend his theory that shot-1 was at Z103 (my Z113), or at least when JFK was in line with the Oswald's view in line with the overhead signal arm.
However, Holland was not twisting her words, her words are her words, unless the footage was cleverly edited.
However, Holland might have pressured her in the usual ways.

However, Holland was correct (place wize)(if not time wize). The "solid-facts" tell us that. Witness statements are all quasi-facts, pseudo-facts & faux-facts.
So, either Tina miss-remembered, or, she miss-heard.

But it is not just Tina Towner.  Hugh Betzner said the first shot followed his z186 photo. Phillip Willis said the first shot was an instant before his z202 photo - that he clicked the shutter as a reflex to hearing the sound. Croft said he took his z161 photo and then hurried to wind his camera and pressed the shutter at the moment that he heard a shot - the Argus camera malfunctioned and the film was not exposed.*

And that is not all.  There are at least 20 witnesses who said that JFK reacted immediately to the first shot.  Not a single witness said he smiled or waved after the first shot.  You have him smiling and waving for about 5 seconds after it.

And, again, that is not all:  at least a dozen witnesses put the first shot when the President was just passing or almost passing or had just passed where they were standing. This puts the first shot between z190 and z220.  Linda Willis said the first shot occurred when the President was between her and the Stemmons sign (between z195 and z205). 

And that is not all.  For Tina Towner to have been wrong, there had to have been at least 5 seconds between the last two shots.  Yet over 45 witnesses provided statements and/or testimony that the last two shots were in rapid succession and noticeably closer together than the first two.  Shots at z120, z225 and z313 do not fit that pattern.

All of these witnesses, not just Tina Towner, would have to not only be wrong in their observations, but to have recalled it incorrectly the same way. And it is just this one fact that witnesses would have been wrong on.  The witness evidence is generally accurate with respect to the other observations they made.

Holland's theory is clever, but ugly facts make it untenable.
----------------------------------------------

* Here is what Gary Mack wrote to me in that email from 2007 about Croft's camera:

"As for Croft's blank photo, I can explain that, for my father had the exact same camera model, an Argus C-3.  Dad used to get blank pictures all the time and he always got so made when it happened! 

To advance the film in that camera, one had to depress a button on the top right and turn a knob on the top left.  If you held the button down too long, which Dad often did, you'd roll past the next position on the roll of film.  The skipped area would be blank - and that's what Croft received when his pictures were processed."

[Marjan Rynkiewicz]

But it is not just Tina Towner.  Hugh Betzner said the first shot followed his z186 photo. Phillip Willis said the first shot was an instant before his z202 photo - that he clicked the shutter as a reflex to hearing the sound. Croft said he took his z161 photo and then hurried to wind his camera and pressed the shutter at the moment that he heard a shot - the Argus camera malfunctioned and the film was not exposed.*

And that is not all.  There are at least 20 witnesses who said that JFK reacted immediately to the first shot.  Not a single witness said he smiled or waved after the first shot.  You have him smiling and waving for about 5 seconds after it.

And, again, that is not all:  at least a dozen witnesses put the first shot when the President was just passing or almost passing or had just passed where they were standing. This puts the first shot between z190 and z220.  Linda Willis said the first shot occurred when the President was between her and the Stemmons sign (between z195 and z205). 

And that is not all.  For Tina Towner to have been wrong, there had to have been at least 5 seconds between the last two shots.  Yet over 45 witnesses provided statements and/or testimony that the last two shots were in rapid succession and noticeably closer together than the first two.  Shots at z120, z225 and z313 do not fit that pattern.

All of these witnesses, not just Tina Towner, would have to not only be wrong in their observations, but to have recalled it incorrectly the same way. And it is just this one fact that witnesses would have been wrong on.  The witness evidence is generally accurate with respect to the other observations they made.

Holland's theory is clever, but ugly facts make it untenable.
----------------------------------------------

* Here is what Gary Mack wrote to me in that email from 2007 about Croft's camera:

"As for Croft's blank photo, I can explain that, for my father had the exact same camera model, an Argus C-3.  Dad used to get blank pictures all the time and he always got so made when it happened! 

To advance the film in that camera, one had to depress a button on the top right and turn a knob on the top left.  If you held the button down too long, which Dad often did, you'd roll past the next position on the roll of film.  The skipped area would be blank - and that's what Croft received when his pictures were processed."

There has been a lot written about witnesses for 1 or 2 or 3 or 4 or 5 or 6 or 7 or 8 shots & more (eg a flurry of shots).
Many standing near Houston said that shot-1 was when the jfklimo was close to Houston, & as the jfklimo got straight, & when the jfklimo was near the signals.  I myself found a new witness……
Howard Whately that said 3 years ago (edited)
…………… i was there sir and heard 4 to 6 shots i was  about 25 ft. east of tsbd. you could tell the difference 1 shot was low kinda muffled came just as the limo got straight on elm i'm sure it missed……….
Howard Whatley 3 years ago
…………….that's right,and the two were different sounds the first of the two wasn't quite as loud the second sounded lower in tone but louder.iv'e filled many deer and hogs ,and the sound of a bullet hitting a skull or anything else does not make a sound similar to the actual discharge of a rifle,sometimes a popping sound is conman………..
Dallas Brubaker 3 years ago (edited)
………….Howard Whatley, You were in Dealey Plaza on 11-22-1963 at 12"30 pm cst?.........
Howard Whatley 3 years ago
……………..right strictly by chance,i didn't even know he was coming until the told us at the courthouse.went there to get manage licence.never spoke much about it.went back to camp Pendleton sunday came back home in jan. 1964. my  wife and i made a vow not to tell anyone and i kept it until she passed away in 2005.there's a couple things i never heard anyone mention what i saw and heard some of the witness' have said and some the complete opposite.will say without any doubt there were more than three shots and the last came so close together no way did they come from a bolt action rifle……………………

Here is my own idea of the shot sequence, if Hickey fired 6 shots (he fired at least 4).
Shot-1 (which ricocheted offa the signal arm) was at about Z103 (Holland) or about Z113 (me). Anyhow it was when JFK was in line with the signal arm (from Oswald's carcano).
Shot-2 was at Z218 (me)(the magic bullet).
Shot-3 (Hickey's AR15) was at Z298 (bloodied Tague)(modern AR15s can fire at 1200 rpm, but Hickey's AR15-601 probly fired at 400 rpm).
Shot-4-5-6 hit tarmac & kerb & grass at Z301-304-307.
Shot-7 at Z310 hit the chrome trim of the jfklimo windshield above the mirror.
Shot-8 hit JFK in the head at Z313, & the remnant slug cracked the windshield glass left of the mirror.

Holland's theory is good & bad & ugly.
Good—Shot-1 ricocheted offa the signal arm he said. Yes.
Bad – Shot-1 hit the tarmac he said (& he said remnants bounced up into the jfklimo). No, the 2 copper jacket remnants went directly into the jfklimo. No, we know that the slug put a hole in the floor of the jfklimo.
Ugly – Shot-1 bloodied Tague he said. No.

JFK was hit in the back of the head by lead splatter from the ricochet of shot-1 (as can be seen in Xrays).
JFK said …. 'my god i have been hit'…. (according to Kellerman).
But as u say JFK went back to smiling & waving (thinking that it was a firecracker or backfire).
Connally initially said that shot-1 was near Houston.

There is only one person in the world that is correct, me. Read my 400 postings (the early ones aint so good)(but i was learning fast).

[Marjan Rynkiewicz]

The Oswald Diet looks to me to be ok for a young guy using lots of energy & on his feet at work all day.
However a good or bad diet depends mainly on the quantity of food rather than quality (within reason).
For guys who are not very active the Oswald Diet would be ok if quantity was kept minimal.
But if u tend to be overwt i would not follow the Oswald Diet, ie i would make changes to the quality, mainly reducing sugar (especially fructose) & flour (carbohydrate).
I see that the diet ideas of Dr Eric Berg (youtube) do not contradict my own general ideas (that i came up with in 1974)(mostly from one book).
Here are my comments re the Oswald Diet.

Breakfast -- For guys who are less active i would agree with Oswald that breakfast is not needed. A cup of coffee is ok (don’t use sugar).

Lunch – Peanut butter is ok if u are not overwt (9% sugar). Cheese is ok. Lettuce is ok. Avoid fruit (fructose is bad)(carb is bad if overwt). Avoid apple (fructose is bad)(carb). If overwt i would avoid bread (carb)(possible seed reaction). I would avoid Coke&Pepsi (fructose)(carb)(nowadays diet coke might be ok). Bananas are marginal (fructose).
I think that Oswald sometimes bort a hamburger for lunch (but i suspect that Marina was mistaken)(it was for dinner). Anyhow the occasional hamburger is ok (carb)(sugar).
But best to not have any lunch if not very active, just have one meal a day (Dinner).
Exercise -- Lunchtime is good -- eg shoot a president out of season without a permit -- & a brisk walk down several flights of stairs to a bus-stop.

Dinner – Meat & veggies are good. I would avoid fruit (fructose) & desert (if sugar)(& if pastry).
I would add fish (daily)(eg sardines).
Me myself i eat raw veggies (ie that dont need cooking)(daily), except that i have fries (potato)(daily)(my favorit food).
Dont overdo the salt (especially if u have hi blood pressure).
Alcohol – Oswald didn’t drink grog, & didn’t smoke.

If Oswald bort lunch near TSBD it would be a hamburger i think.
[edit 4june2022][A caterer sold lunches outside the TSBD at 10 am each workday, & probly sold hamburgers][why would Oswald buy the same old cheese sandwich & apple that he usually got from Marina?]

[Marjan Rynkiewicz]

This is nutty. Just nutty. Even the WC admitted that any shot fired from the sixth-floor window before Z166 would have required a sharply downward angle. What's more, at that point, a sixth-floor gunman would have had only a partial view of the back of JFK's head, since part of his head would have been somewhat parallel to the window. Therefore, how would a bullet that hit the guy rod with JFK at this location on the street have been able to send fragments streaking toward him that could have landed near the upper midline of the back of his skull? How?

Incidentally, any shot from the sixth-floor window that could have hit the traffic signal's guy rod would have had to be fired well after Z113, closer to Z140. The traffic light was only about 10 feet from the tree. The sixth-floor window's view of the limo would have been obstructed by the oak tree from Z166 to Z207, so a sixth-floor shot that hit the traffic signal's guy rod would have occurred at around Z140, give or take 5-10 frames.

Finally, you seem to be forgetting about the Tague curb shot. It boggles the mind to try to fathom how a bullet that struck the traffic light's guy rod could have produced a large fragment that could have traveled over 400 feet and struck the Main Street curb near Tague and struck it with enough force to send metal or concrete streaking rapidly enough toward Tague to cut his face.

If u have a look at my thread/link u will see that Holland reckoned that JFK was obstructed by the signal arm at (pseudo) Z103. I reckoned it woz at (psueudo) Z113.  The diff being a half limo length (10 ft @ 1 Z frame per ft). I am happy to split the diff, in which case Oswald shot-1 woz at say (pseudo) Z108.

The Roselle & Scearce investigation of reactions seen after Z133 concludes that the first shot was at about (pseudo) Z120 i think (i karnt remember), based on typical startle reaction times.
https://www.acsr.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/2020-Estimating-Occult-Timing-of-Surprise-Gunshot-Sounds-in-Silent-Film-via-Observed-Start-of-Human-Voluntary-Reactions-of-Concern-Roselle.pdf
http://jfkforensics.net/secretsofthezapruderfilm.html


My thread/link includes a reconstructed view from the sniper's nest – this shows that the downwards vertical angle was no problem – something less than 40 deg off horizontal.

The ricochet offa the signal arm is a bit of a problem.  There are 10 possibilities.
A simple ricochet offa the western or eastern side of the eastern guyrod (1)(2), or offa the main pipe (3)(4), or offa the western guyrod (5)(6).
Or a double ricochet offa the eastern guyrod & the pipe (7) – or offa the pipe & the eastern guyrod ( 8 ) – or offa the pipe & the western guyrod (9) – or offa the western guyrod & the pipe (10).

The more i think about it the more i favor a double ricochet – say two slightly glancing kontakts – enuff to break the brass jacket into two (found in the limo), plus give a large remnant lead slug (which makes a hole in the floor of the limo), plus some lead splatter (Xray of head).

There is a possibility that the two brass bits of jacket separated when the slug went through the floor (unlikely i think).
I would have a better idea of the exact possible nature of the ricochet if i could find the youtube footage of i think it was Haag's ricochet tests offa pipe -- or at least find the full report of the ricochet tests -- i think that the youtube requires a $$$ fee.

Holland's (& i think Donahue's) theory that the first shot caused the wound to Tague's left cheek is of course silly.
I have explained that Tague's wound was due to Hickey's first or say second shot of his accidental auto burst of his AR15 at say Z300 to Z313. The last shot being the headshot – the remnant slug cracking the windshield glass. The second last shot denting the chrome trim above the mirror.

[Marjan Rynkiewicz]

Two more pix of the signals.
The slug probly ricocheted off the westernmost side of the westernmost guy rod, the rod might be 3/4" or 1", probly steel pipe but might be solid steel. The slug must have hit very near the collar, hence it could not have hit the large pipe koz then it would have been stopped by the westernmost guy rod.  And the slug could not have hit the easternmost guy rod koz then it would have been stopped by the big pipe.  Drawings or photos of the view from Oswald's window must if they are correct show the collar on a line to the left of the centerline of jfk's neck/head/body, however most films photos drawings show the collar too far right, or they show the collar in the correct location but show jfk too far left.  No, the collar was inches left of jfk. The slug hit a few inches down from the collar.  The slug hit the westernmost guy rod at about where the guy has his hand.

Landis, in his book, says that the 2 (brass) fragments were on the back seat in blood (between Jackie & JFK or ?). This might confirm that Oswald's shot-1 (at say pseudo Z103 or later) ricocheted offa the near (eastern)  side of the western guy-rod, near the collar on the 2" pipe. We know that the lead splatter hit jfk on the back right of his head (xray shows bits stuck in galea). We know that the remnant lead slug made a hole in the floor between Mr & Mrs Connally. We know from ricochet tests that the splatter & the remnant slug & the 2 brass halves (there are always 2) take different angles after ricochet, but i karnt today find the test results. So, somehow, the 2 brass halves finished close together, on the seat.

My thoughts were cut short. I looked at Governor Connally. Seated directly in front of the president, he was slumped to the side.He must have turned at some point. His white shirt had bright red bloodstains. Good God, had he had been hit too, or was he just splattered with the president’s blood? I then realized that he had also been shot, probably by the second bullet, and his body was blocking the right rear door of the limo.

SA Lawson arrived with his gurney, and other agents quickly started to move Governor Connally onto it. Once that task was completed, Mrs. Connally stood up and exited the limo, following the governor’s gurney as they raced toward the emergency entrance.With Governor Connally out of the way, the pathway was clear enough for agents to get to the president. While all of this was happening, Mrs. Kennedy continued to cradle her husband’s head. The president’s body wasn’t going anywhere until Mrs. Kennedy released him. Clint kept urging her to let go, while I scanned the inside of the car and the surrounding
outside area.

The entire scene was crazy and awful. Pieces of pink flesh, gray brain matter, and blood were splattered everywhere. They clung to the backseats and all over the right rear door panel. It was a mess, an ugly, bloody mess. Continuing my surveillance, I looked back toward the follow-up car. It was now empty, and there were no agents in sight.

I returned my attention to the presidential limo. Looking down at the seat beside Mrs. Kennedy, I saw two brass bullet fragments sitting in a pool of bright red blood. I could hardly believe it. They glistened like two gold nuggets in their blood-red surroundings. I bent over, picked up the largest of the two pieces, and examined it. It was about the size of the end of my little finger. It looked like a small mushroom that had been squashed. I quickly replaced it exactly where I had found it.

About then, even though only seconds had passed, Clint finally convinced Mrs. Kennedy to let go of the president’s head. When she released it, someone said, “Cover up his head.” Thinking quickly and without hesitating, Clint removed his suit coat and covered the president’s head and upper torso. None of us wanted anyone to see the president in this condition. Then Clint, ASAIC Kellerman, and SA Lawson were finally able to remove the president’s lifeless body from the backseat area of the limo and place it onto a gurney.

[Marjan Rynkiewicz]

The Oswald Diet looks to me to be ok for a young guy using lots of energy & on his feet at work all day.
However a good or bad diet depends mainly on the quantity of food rather than quality (within reason).
For guys who are not very active the Oswald Diet would be ok if quantity was kept minimal.
But if u tend to be overwt i would not follow the Oswald Diet, ie i would make changes to the quality, mainly reducing sugar (especially fructose) & flour (carbohydrate).
I see that the diet ideas of Dr Eric Berg (youtube) do not contradict my own general ideas (that i came up with in 1974)(mostly from one book).
Here are my comments re the Oswald Diet.

Breakfast -- For guys who are less active i would agree with Oswald that breakfast is not needed. A cup of coffee is ok (don’t use sugar).

Lunch – Peanut butter is ok if u are not overwt (9% sugar). Cheese is ok. Lettuce is ok. Avoid fruit (fructose is bad)(carb is bad if overwt). Avoid apple (fructose is bad)(carb). If overwt i would avoid bread (carb)(possible seed reaction). I would avoid Coke&Pepsi (fructose)(carb)(nowadays diet coke might be ok). Bananas are marginal (fructose).
I think that Oswald sometimes bort a hamburger for lunch (but i suspect that Marina was mistaken)(it was for dinner). Anyhow the occasional hamburger is ok (carb)(sugar).
But best to not have any lunch if not very active, just have one meal a day (Dinner).
Exercise -- Lunchtime is good -- eg shoot a president out of season without a permit -- & a brisk walk down several flights of stairs to a bus-stop.

Dinner – Meat & veggies are good. I would avoid fruit (fructose) & desert (if sugar)(& if pastry).
I would add fish (daily)(eg sardines).
Me myself i eat raw veggies (ie that dont need cooking)(daily), except that i have fries (potato)(daily)(my favorit food).
Dont overdo the salt (especially if u have hi blood pressure).
Alcohol – Oswald didn’t drink grog, & didn’t smoke.

If Oswald bort lunch near TSBD it would be a hamburger i think.
[edit 4june2022][A caterer sold lunches outside the TSBD at 10 am each workday, & probly sold hamburgers][why would Oswald buy the same old cheese sandwich & apple that he usually got from Marina?]

I have changed my mind re what is a good diet.
Today 22Nov2023 i am going to start on the carnivore diet.
No fruit (i already did that), & no bread or biscuits etc (i already did that), & no sugar (already did that).
And today i start with no veggies.
So, no more potato fries (my favorite)(i have fries almost every day).
No more carrot peas cabbage onion silverbeet.
Lots of bacon smoked ham chicken (free range) fish (wild caught) smoked cod mussel (farm) corned beef steak sausages (all grass fed)(no grain fed), kangaroo, wallaby, eggs (free range), cheese, olive oil (no seed oils)(lard is ok).
I will have salami & cheese every day (evening really, ie dinner)(i never have breakfast)(& i almost never hav lunch).
Cant wait. Starts today, koz my fridge is finally empty. So i am going in to town to do my carnivore shopping.
There is sometimes some roadkill.