Et tu, Bonnie?

[Alan Ford]

Gerry Hill.

Mr. HILL. We hadn't been there but a minute until someone yelled, "Here it is," or words to that effect.
I moved over and found they had found an area where the boxes had been stacked in sort of a triangle shape with three sides over near the window.

What time approximately was this great discovery of the SN made?

[Dan O'meara]

Gerry Hill.

Mr. HILL. We hadn't been there but a minute until someone yelled, "Here it is," or words to that effect.
I moved over and found they had found an area where the boxes had been stacked in sort of a triangle shape with three sides over near the window.
Mr. BELIN. What did you see over there?
Mr. HILL. There was the boxes. The boxes were stacked in sort of a three-sided shield.
That would have concealed from general view, unless somebody specifically walked up and looked over them, anyone who was in a sitting or crouched position between them and the window. In front of this window and to the left or east corner of the window, there were two boxes, cardboard boxes that had the words "Roller books," on them.
On top of the larger stack of boxes that would have been used for concealment, there was a chicken leg bone and a paper sack which appeared to have been about the size normally used for a lunch sack. I wouldn't know what the sizes were. It was a sack, I would say extended, it would probably be 12 inches high, 10 inches long, and about 4 inches thick.

At this point, I asked the deputy sheriff to guard the scene, not to let anybody touch anything, and I went over still further west to another window about the middle of the building on the south side and yelled down to the street for them to send us the crime lab.

Not knowing or not getting any indication from the street that they heard me, I asked the deputies again to guard the scene and I would go down and make sure that the crime lab was en route.
When I got toward the back, at this time I heard the freight elevator moving, and I went back to the back of the building to either catch the freight elevator or the stairs, and Captain Fritz and his men were coming up on the elevator.
I told him what we found and pointed out the general area, pointed out the deputies to them, and told him also that I was going to make sure the crime lab was en route.
About the time I got to the street, Lieutenant Day from the crime lab was arriving and walking up toward the front door. I told him that the area we had found where the shots were fired from was on the sixth floor on the southeast corner, and that they were guarding the scene so nobody would touch anything until he got there. And he said, "All right."

JIM EWELL, NEWS REPORTER from "No More Silence".
I had been a newspaper reporter for about fifteen years, and I thought that I was a seasoned professional. But now that the weight of this was coming down on me, I was beginning to get woozy. I felt light headed. But I do remember standing there with the police not knowing if they still had somebody trapped upstairs, or if there was going to be an outbreak of gunfire if they exposed somebody. And again, we didn't know how badly hurt Kennedy was, at least I didn't. Meanwhile Jerry Hill worked his way up to the sixth floor, leaned out an open window, and he had what was thought to be Oswald's little fried chicken lunch. It in a little pop box. Jerry was holding that box and holding up one of the chicken bones exclaiming to everybody that listened to him down on the street that the fried chicken what he had been eating. About that time there was a commotion around one of the squad cars, and we could hear a radio saying that an officer
had been shot in Oak Cliff.

Carl Day eventually admitted in his WC testimony that he did not find out about the ownership of the lunch until more than 2 days later.

Mr. McCLOY. On the crime scene, that is, on the sixth floor, did you notice any chicken bones or chicken remnants of a chicken sandwich or lunch or the whereabouts, if you did see them?
Mr. DAY. Yes, sir; there was a sack of some chicken bones and a bottle brought into the identification bureau. I think I still have that sack and bottle down there. The chicken bones, I finally threw them away that laid around there. In my talking to the men who were working on that floor, November 25, they stated, one of them stated, he had eaten lunch over there. Mr. McCLOY. Someone other than Oswald?
Mr. DAY. Yes, sir; so I discarded it, or disconnected it with being with Oswald. Incidentally, Oswald's fingerprints were not on the bottle. I checked that.

Day never saw the lunch remnants in the TSBD on the 22nd. By the time he returned to the TSBD they were removed by Johnson. No doubt by that time the lunch was nothing more than a curiosity.Oswald was dead and Williams occupation in the SN was confused by the placement of the lunch remnants in the bag and set down outside the boxes, likely by Hill and or Johnson.

The management of the crime scene was shambolic.

In his WC testimony Studebaker provides a photo showing the two-wheeler truck with the lunch sack and soda bottle laid nearby [Studebaker Exhibit H]. Below is a close-up of that picture, I've marked on it with an arrow where I believe the lunch sack is located (I could be completely wrong):



Studebaker makes the point that this picture was taken "before anything was touched and before it was dusted".
What are we to make of the fact that, in his WC testimony, BRW is describing the scene we see in Studebaker's photo and not what really happened to the lunch remains. It is clear BRW is lying about what he did with the lunch remains because an examination of his WC testimony reveals he lied about every aspect of his lunch that day.

Mr. BALL. Finish your lunch?
Mr. WILLIAMS. Yes, sir. No longer than it took me to finish the chicken sandwich.
Mr. BALL. Did you eat the chicken?
Mr. WILLIAMS. Yes, I did.

But BRW didn't finish his lunch and he didn't eat his chicken. It is notable that multiple witnesses report seeing a partially eaten piece of chicken on the boxes that form the SN. The piece of chicken is the most important part of the lunch. BRW has been working hard all morning cutting wood to lay on the floor and will be doing the same that afternoon. The chicken is his main nourishment for the day yet a large part of it is left behind, strongly indicating the lunch was interrupted. BRW lied about eating the chicken.

Mr. BALL. I will. I am going to introduce them all. Let's go back to the diagram, which is 483. Could you mark on this diagram the window that is shown in this picture 484 that is, the place where you were sitting and eating your lunch?
Mr. WILLIAMS. That would be facing Elm Street. I would say right around in this.
Mr. BALL. In other words, you are marking here something between--some area between the third and the fourth window.
Mr. WILLIAMS. Yes, sir.

BRW lied about where he had his lunch. He insists it was "between the third and the fourth window" but the lunch remains were found some 30ft away. In the diagram below the red circle marks where BRW insists he had lunch and the green circle marks where the lunch remains were found:



As has been noted elsewhere on this thread BRW constantly lies about how long he was up on the 6th floor. Even during his actual WC testimony he gives 5, 10, 12 and finally 20 minutes for the amount of time he spent up there [the testimonies of Jarman and Norman suggest it was even later than this]

BRW lies about every single aspect of his lunch that day. Why?
Is it because he is trying to distance himself from the SN in terms of time and physical distance?
Or is it because he was never there, and doesn't have a clue what actually happened?
It is clear he is dancing to Ball's tune. Is he taking the responsibility for a lunch that wasn't his? That would certainly explain the consistency of Jarman and Norman's various statements that BRW was with them during the lunch break and went up to the 5th floor with them. It would explain why BRW said the same thing in his affidavit.
The lunch was not necessarily BRW's.
If it wasn't, whose was it?

[Colin Crow]

What time approximately was this great discovery of the SN made?

The time would have been about 1.10pm. The important point is the sequence of witness arrivals at the scene.

Mooney: So, at that time, I didn't lay my hands on anything, because I wanted to save every evidence we could for fingerprints. So I leaned out the window, the same window from which the shots were fired, looked down, and I saw Sheriff Bill Decker and Captain Will Fritz standing right on the ground.
Well, so I hollered, or signalled I hollered, I more or less hollered. I whistled a time or two before I got anybody to see me. And yet they was all looking that way, too except the sheriff, they wasn't looking up.


Officer A. D. McCurley, Deputy Sheriff, Dallas County Sheriff's Office (Statement 11/22/63)

Officer Jack Faulkner and I, together with several other City officers went to the building and started checking the floors. We were searching the 6th floor when Deputy Sheriff Mooney, who was also on the 6th floor, hollered that he had found the place where the assassin had fired from. I went over and saw 3 expended shells laying by the window that faced onto Elm Street, along with a half-eaten piece of chicken that was laying on a cardboard carton. It appeared as if the assassin had piled up a bunch of boxes to hide from the view of anyone who happened to come up on that floor and had arranged 3 other cartons of books next to the window as though to make a rifle rest. This area was roped off and guarded until Captain Will Fritz of Dallas Police Department Homicide Bureau arrived. It was about this same time that Deputy Sheriff Eugene Boone yelled that he had found the rifle which had been placed between some rows of cardboard boxes near the staircase which leads down to the 5th floor.

And I told him to get the crime lab officers en route, that I had the location spotted.
So I stood guard to see that no one disturbed anything until Captain Will Fritz approached with his group of officers, city officers. At that time, of course, when I hollered, of course Officers Vickery and Webster, they came across and later on several other deputies--I believe Officer McCurley, A. D. McCurley, I believe he came over. Where he came from--they was all en route up there, I assume."

Officer Jack Faulkner

"There were also some
chicken
bones. Evidently he had
chicken for his lunch. There were people that worked with him
that had left maybe at noon. I don't know where they went
because I didn't investigate that part of it. I've also heard of a bag
which carried the rifle, but I never saw that. It could have been
there, but I didn't notice it."

. BELIN - Well, how did you know they had been found there? Did someone yell---or what?
Mr. CRAIG - Yes; someone yelled across the room that "here's the shells."
Mr. BELIN - Do you remember who that was?
Mr. CRAIG - No; I couldn't recognize the voice.
Mr. BELIN - All right. Then, what did you do?
Mr. CRAIG - I went over there and--uh--didn't get too close because the shells were laying on the ground and there was--uh--oh, a sack and a bunch of things laying over there. So, you know, not to bother the area, I just went back across.
Mr. BELIN - Now, you say there was a sack laying there?
Mr. CRAIG - Yes; I believe it was laying on top of a box, if I'm not mistaken.
Mr. BELIN - How big a sack was that?
Mr. CRAIG - It was a paper bag (indicating with hands)--a small paper bag.
Mr. BELIN - Well, the kind-of paper bag that you carry your lunch in?
Mr. CRAIG - Yeah,--uh-huh.
Mr. BELIN - Was it more than a foot long?
Mr. CRAIG - I don't know. I think it was rolled up kind of.
Mr. BELIN - You think it was rolled up?
Mr. CRAIG - Yeah; you know, kind of crushed up.

. HILL. We hadn't been there but a minute until someone yelled, "Here it is," or words to that effect.
I moved over and found they had found an area where the boxes had been stacked in sort of a triangle shape with three sides over near the window.
Mr. BELIN. What did you see over there?
Mr. HILL. There was the boxes. The boxes were stacked in sort of a three-sided shield.
That would have concealed from general view, unless somebody specifically walked up and looked over them, anyone who was in a sitting or crouched position between them and the window. In front of this window and to the left or east corner of the window, there were two boxes, cardboard boxes that had the words "Roller books," on them.
On top of the larger stack of boxes that would have been used for concealment, there was a chicken leg bone and a paper sack which appeared to have been about the size normally used for a lunch sack. I wouldn't know what the sizes were. It was a sack, I would say extended, it would probably be 12 inches high, 10 inches long, and about 4 inches thick.

At this point, I asked the deputy sheriff to guard the scene, not to let anybody touch anything, and I went over still further west to another window about the middle of the building on the south side and yelled down to the street for them to send us the crime lab.

Mr. BREWER. I was on the sixth floor when they found those spent cases from the rifle.
Mr. BELIN. Where were you when they found them?
Mr. BREWER. I don't know exactly. I was on the floor searching around in among some boxes that were stacked up there.
Mr. BELIN. Hear anyone say anything about cartridge cases or anything?
Mr. BREWER. Yes, sir. Whoever found them turned around and let ito be known to one of the supervisor officers that he had found them, or that they had been found over there.
Mr. BELIN. What did you do when you heard the news?
Mr. BREWER. I continued searching.
Mr. BELIN. Did you go and take a look at the cartridge cases?
Mr. BREWER. Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN. How many cartridge cases did you see?
Mr. BREWER. Three.
Mr. BELIN. Where were they?
Mr. BREWER. They were there under, by the window.
Mr. BELIN. What window?
Mr. BREWER. In the southeast corner of the building, facing south.
Mr. BELIN. See anything else there at the time by the window?
Mr. BREWER. Paper lunch sack and some chicken bones or partially eaten piece of chicken, or a piece at chicken.
Mr. BELIN. Anything else?
Mr. BREWER. A drink bottle.
Mr. BELIN. What bottle?
Mr. BREWER. A cold drink bottle, soda pop bottle.
Mr. BELIN. Anything else?

. BELIN. Did you hear someone say they have shells, something like that?
Mr. HAYGOOD. Yes.
Mr. BELIN. Do you remember who that was?
Mr. HAYGOOD. No; I don't.
Mr. BELIN. What did you do then?
Mr. HAYGOOD. Went up to another location there.
Mr. BELIN. You saw some shells there?
Mr. HAYGOOD. Yes.
Mr. BELIN. Where did you see them?
Mr. HAYGOOD. They were there under the window.
Mr. BELIN. Which window?
Mr. HAYGOOD. On the southeast corner.
Mr. BELIN. South side or east side?
Mr. HAYGOOD. On the southeast corner facing south.
Mr. BELIN. See any paper bags or anything around there?
Mr. HAYGOOD. Yes; there was a lunch bag there. You could call it a lunch bag.
Mr. BALL. Where was that?
Mr. HAYGOOD. There at the same location where the shells were.
Mr. BELIN. Was there a coke bottle or anything with it?
Mr. HAYGOOD. Dr. Pepper bottle

 11-23-63 report of Deputy Sheriff Harry Weatherford notes "I came down to the 6th floor, and while searching this floor, Deputy Luke Mooney said "here are some shells." I went over to where he was and saw 3 expended rifle shells, a sack on the floor and a partially eaten piece of chicken on top of one of the cartons which was used as a sort of barricade."

All of these observations place the lunch in the SN upon its discovery. Fritz arrived later and then Day and Studebaker. It is the sequence that is important not the exact time.

What time did Alyea arrive on the sixth floor? Finding old bones on the fifth is meaningless. By the time he got to the SN the sixth floor bones were placed in the bag. Likely by Hill.

[Colin Crow]

In his WC testimony Studebaker provides a photo showing the two-wheeler truck with the lunch sack and soda bottle laid nearby [Studebaker Exhibit H]. Below is a close-up of that picture, I've marked on it with an arrow where I believe the lunch sack is located (I could be completely wrong):



Studebaker makes the point that this picture was taken "before anything was touched and before it was dusted".
What are we to make of the fact that, in his WC testimony, BRW is describing the scene we see in Studebaker's photo and not what really happened to the lunch remains. It is clear BRW is lying about what he did with the lunch remains because an examination of his WC testimony reveals he lied about every aspect of his lunch that day.

Mr. BALL. Finish your lunch?
Mr. WILLIAMS. Yes, sir. No longer than it took me to finish the chicken sandwich.
Mr. BALL. Did you eat the chicken?
Mr. WILLIAMS. Yes, I did.

But BRW didn't finish his lunch and he didn't eat his chicken. It is notable that multiple witnesses report seeing a partially eaten piece of chicken on the boxes that form the SN. The piece of chicken is the most important part of the lunch. BRW has been working hard all morning cutting wood to lay on the floor and will be doing the same that afternoon. The chicken is his main nourishment for the day yet a large part of it is left behind, strongly indicating the lunch was interrupted. BRW lied about eating the chicken.

Mr. BALL. I will. I am going to introduce them all. Let's go back to the diagram, which is 483. Could you mark on this diagram the window that is shown in this picture 484 that is, the place where you were sitting and eating your lunch?
Mr. WILLIAMS. That would be facing Elm Street. I would say right around in this.
Mr. BALL. In other words, you are marking here something between--some area between the third and the fourth window.
Mr. WILLIAMS. Yes, sir.

BRW lied about where he had his lunch. He insists it was "between the third and the fourth window" but the lunch remains were found some 30ft away. In the diagram below the red circle marks where BRW insists he had lunch and the green circle marks where the lunch remains were found:



As has been noted elsewhere on this thread BRW constantly lies about how long he was up on the 6th floor. Even during his actual WC testimony he gives 5, 10, 12 and finally 20 minutes for the amount of time he spent up there [the testimonies of Jarman and Norman suggest it was even later than this]

BRW lies about every single aspect of his lunch that day. Why?
Is it because he is trying to distance himself from the SN in terms of time and physical distance?
Or is it because he was never there, and doesn't have a clue what actually happened?
It is clear he is dancing to Ball's tune. Is he taking the responsibility for a lunch that wasn't his? That would certainly explain the consistency of Jarman and Norman's various statements that BRW was with them during the lunch break and went up to the 5th floor with them. It would explain why BRW said the same thing in his affidavit.
The lunch was not necessarily BRW's.
If it wasn't, whose was it?

I suspect Day asked the group who had left their lunch on the  sixth floor but gave the details of the final position away on the Monday. The case was done. He was just tidying up and likely said "we found a pile of chicken bones in a bag about the middle of the building by a 2wheeler truck". At that point BRW could go with the flow, revealing more details.

The essential message here is the offical story that most accept, a lone assassin waiting in solitude in his lair for 15 minutes is patently false from the Commission's own documents. There were two others on the sixth floor in the last five minutes or so before the shooting.

Clearly Rankine was not satisfied from what he saw and wanted more robust questioning of key witnesses following their WC testimonies. Could find no evidence of it.

[Dan O'meara]

I suspect Day asked the group who had left their lunch on the  sixth floor but gave the details of the final position away on the Monday. The case was done. He was just tidying up and likely said "we found a pile of chicken bones in a bag about the middle of the building by a 2wheeler truck". At that point BRW could go with the flow, revealing more details.

The essential message here is the offical story that most accept, a lone assassin waiting in solitude in his lair for 15 minutes is patently false from the Commission's own documents. There were two others on the sixth floor in the last five minutes or so before the shooting.

Clearly Rankine was not satisfied from what he saw and wanted more robust questioning of key witnesses following their WC testimonies. Could find no evidence of it.

This doesn't explain why Norman and Jarman stuck to the "he was with us" script. In his FBI interview in Jan '64, Jarman is really specific that they were all together on the first floor and all went up together. Obviously this changes for the WC hearing. In their HSCA interviews Jarman sticks to the WC script that Williams joined them later on the 5th whereas Norman still has them all going up to the 5th together.
The only reason I can think of why Norman and Jarman would lie is to cover for BRW who, for whatever reason, didn't want to be associated with the 6th floor. As unlikely as it seems, Norman and Jarman agree to lie for him but, unbeknownst to them, BRW has admitted to going up to the 6th alone. In this scenario it can only be the case that BRW doesn't tell Jarman and Norman he has changed his tune so, as he is giving statement after statement that he went up to the 6th floor alone, Norman and Jarman are giving statement after statement that he was with them.
It seems a bit of a stretch that they didn't get together to "compare notes" as soon as they were back at work.

[Dan O'meara]

The arguments for Williams meeting up with Norman and Jarman on the 5th.

Oswald sees Junior and Norman enter the TSBD together (describes Norman as short)
Roy Truly:
"I believe, three of our colored boys had come out and started up, and two of them came back. And I didn't see them when the motorcade passed.
But they had started across Houston Street up Elm, and they came back later on, and I think those were the ones that were two of them were the ones on the fifth floor. Possibly they could not see over the crowd. They are short boys."

Truly also makes this comment about them being short. In the pic below Norman and Jarman are considerably shorter than BRW:



Danny Arce is asked if BRW was out front he states that BRW "stayed upstairs".

Charles Givens:
"Mr. GIVENS. When I got down to the first floor Harold Norman, James Jarman and myself, we stood over by the window, and then we said we was going outside and watch the parade, so we walked out and we stood there a while, and then I said, "I believe I will walk up to the parking lot."
I had a friend that worked on the parking lot, right on Elm and Record."

I believe Givens was one of the three men Truly saw walking away and only two returned.
Nobody reports seeing BRW outside (apart from Jarman but he is quickly corrected).
There is, of course, Rowland's disputed observation of a black male in the SN at a time BRW was up there.

[Alan Ford]

The time would have been about 1.10pm. The important point is the sequence of witness arrivals at the scene.

Thank you very much for your detailed response, Mr Crow---------appreciated! 

It seems to me the time is extremely important because it confronts us with a truly absurd scenario: several witnesses (Messrs Brennan, Fischer, Edwards & Euins) have immediately after the shooting pointed police straight to the SN. How on earth did it take officers some 40 minutes to 'find' a SN they should have been able to find within five minutes? Makes absolutely no sense. I simply cannot buy the official line that 'We searched all the floors until we found the shells etc'.

I suspect the following is what really happened:

The above-named witnesses miscounted the floors (an easy thing to do from the outside) and word got around amongst officers that the shooter had fired from the southeast window on the fifth floor. That window became the initial focus of attention and was checked out very quickly indeed. It remained the assumed SN window until shells were discovered at the sixth floor window immediately above it. Chicken bones had been the only item of even remote interest found by the fifth floor window, and now they were taken up to the sixth floor (as per Mr Alyea) because word had gone out prematurely that the assassin's food had been found.

Mr Bonnie Ray Williams was subsequently pressurized into saying he had gone up to the sixth floor----------the police needed to explain away the chicken bones that had been stupidly tied to the assassin. This bequeathed quite a headache to the Warren Commission.

[Chris Davidson]

http://www.whokilledjfk.net/tom_alyea_film.htm

Mr. BALL. Did you go directly to a building?
Mr. FRITZ. Directly to the Texas School Book Depository Building.
Mr. BALL. What time did you arrive there?
Mr. FRITZ. Well, sir; we arrived there---we arrived at the hospital at 12:45, if you want that time, and at the scene of the offense at 12:58.
Mr. BALL. 12:58; the Texas School Book Depository Building.
Mr. FRITZ. Yes.