Et tu, Bonnie?

[Martin Weidmann]

I don't know what you're getting at John. Frazier says he goes back into the TSBD after a few minutes.

Mr. FRAZIER - Yes, sir; I would say by the time, you know some of us went back in, and it wasn't just a few minutes,

But that's not the point. The post you responded to was this:

"In his affidavit or WC testimony, it is clear Frazier doesn't leave the front steps.
What is it in these statements that makes you believe he does?"

There is nothing in his affidavit or WC testimony that suggests he left the front steps at any point. You can have Frazier standing there all day if you want but he doesn't leave the steps.

If there's something to suggest he did leave the steps please point it out.

In a perfect world, with people having instant total recall and the ability to communicate all the details in such a perfect way that one can rely on a single statement as being 100% accurate, the WC testimony might be considered as conclusive.

Unfortunately, we don't live in a perfect world. How often have you attended an interview or meeting, for which you prepared but, after leaving, nevertheless remembering that you forgot to mention a particular detail?

[Dan O'meara]

In a perfect world, with people having instant total recall and the ability to communicate all the details in such a perfect way that one can rely on a single statement as being 100% accurate, the WC testimony might be considered as conclusive.

Unfortunately, we don't live in a perfect world. How often have you attended an interview or meeting, for which you prepared but, after leaving, nevertheless remembering that you forgot to mention a particular detail?

A particular detail?
Such as leaving the steps, seeing a man with a rifle approach who puts the rifle in the trunk of a car in which is already a shotgun whilst you promise you didn't see anything then walking past the front steps to the corner where you see Oswald walking up the street before you return to the steps.
That particular detail?

In a perfect world the some things really are obvious.
If you or John can find anything in Frazier's affidavit or WC testimony where he suggests leaving the steps please point it out.

[Bill Chapman]

What it like to be unable to have a normal discussion for fear of a total lack of arguments and/or evidence to back it up?

Doesn't it get tiresome to constantly play the forum's clown?

Isn't it tiresome being just another Oswald-Loving Clone?

What's it like to have to constantly pretend this is a court-of-law.
And that anyone should fear your overarching-reliance on witness guesses
and estimations?

'total lack of arguments'
Why argue about that which is so obvious.
[Oswald killed Tippit/rosetta-stoned Kennedy)

total lack of evidence
Plenty of people @Tippit and environs that day, Sluggo.

[Colin Crow]

If you don't know because you have only focused on pedantic nonsense like the remains of a chicken sandwich, just say so.  It seems like an interesting question that I don't recall anyone here ever discussing while going on and on endlessly about measuring Oswald's arm pits and how the bag was folded (kind of and sort of).

Predictable that you won’t venture into discussing aspects of the crime scene evidence. What is your area of research into the assassination? So far all I’ve ever seen from your posting is regurgitation of the work of others.

The lunch was originally discovered in the snipers nest. Prove me wrong. Bill can join your effort if need help.

[Colin Crow]

.

Problems with this scenario:

Oswald states he is in the Domino room when Norman and Jarman enter the building. He doesn't see Dougherty there and Dougherty doesn't see him.
While Williams is on the 6th, then Dougherty, the assassin has to construct the SN (and assemble the rifle?)
Rowland sees the man with the rifle on the 6th way before Norman and Jarman go up to the 5th meaning he is there at the same time as Williams (and while Oswald is still in the Domino room).
Williams is insistent no-one was up there for the 20+ minutes he was up there.

Danny Arce claimed he ate lunch with Dougherty then went outside with the others. Who knows where Dougherty went after Arce left.

As for the problems......

Maybe Dougherty left the domino room after eating with Arce. We know that Norman and Jarman left the front of the TSBD about 12.20. Arce had seen Jarman out there before he left.

There was minimal construction of the SN required. The stacks of books had been moved there to allow for the floor laying. Similarly a rifle could be assembled at any time that morning as long as the assembler could be assured of privacy for the required time.

Rowland saw the man with the rifle at 12.15. Williams only vacates the sixth floor after Jarman and Norman arrive below him. Has to be around 12.25.

Rowland testified he saw an African American in the SN window also. Just so happens Williams lunch remnants were original found in the SN. A piece of unfinished chicken and a bag found separately.

I wonder who that African American Rowland saw could be. What really made him decide to venture downstairs?

[Dan O'meara]

Danny Arce claimed he ate lunch with Dougherty then went outside with the others. Who knows where Dougherty went after Arce left.

As for the problems......

Maybe Dougherty left the domino room after eating with Arce. We know that Norman and Jarman left the front of the TSBD about 12.20. Arce had seen Jarman out there before he left.

There was minimal construction of the SN required. The stacks of books had been moved there to allow for the floor laying. Similarly a rifle could be assembled at any time that morning as long as the assembler could be assured of privacy for the required time.

Rowland saw the man with the rifle at 12.15. Williams only vacates the sixth floor after Jarman and Norman arrive below him. Has to be around 12.25.

Rowland testified he saw an African American in the SN window also. Just so happens Williams lunch remnants were original found in the SN. A piece of unfinished chicken and a bag found separately.

I wonder who that African American Rowland saw could be. What really made him decide to venture downstairs?

In this transcript of Dallas Police tapes at 12:22 the motorcade is "approaching Main".
Somewhere between 12:22 and 12:25 the motorcade is on Main.



Assume a minute or two for news to get through to those at the TSBD that the motorcade is on Main.
This scenario has Norman and Jarman deciding to go up to the 5th around 12:23 at the earliest.
Jarman seems to think they get to the elevators between 12:25 and 12:28 which seems to accord with the transcript.

This has Williams eating his lunch in the Sniper's Nest until 12:25 if not later.
Unless another black employee joined him it's hard to get away from Williams being the man Rowland saw in the SN window.

It's hard to imagine the assassin just hanging around hoping Williams would disappear.
I imagine Williams was told to get out of there and keep his mouth shut or he knew the assassin was there all along and it wasn't a problem.

[Colin Crow]

In this transcript of Dallas Police tapes at 12:22 the motorcade is "approaching Main".
Somewhere between 12:22 and 12:25 the motorcade is on Main.



Assume a minute or two for news to get through to those at the TSBD that the motorcade is on Main.
This scenario has Norman and Jarman deciding to go up to the 5th around 12:23 at the earliest.
Jarman seems to think they get to the elevators between 12:25 and 12:28 which seems to accord with the transcript.

This has Williams eating his lunch in the Sniper's Nest until 12:25 if not later.
Unless another black employee joined him it's hard to get away from Williams being the man Rowland saw in the SN window.

It's hard to imagine the assassin just hanging around hoping Williams would disappear.
I imagine Williams was told to get out of there and keep his mouth shut or he knew the assassin was there all along and it wasn't a problem.

12:22 pm 1 (Curry/Decker) Escort drop back, go real slow speed now
approaching Main.

I was going from memory Dan, but yeah the motorcade reached Main about 12.24. Interesting how this differs from the "official" story. The assassin likely taking position just minutes before the shooting.

[Martin Weidmann]

Isn't it tiresome being just another Oswald-Loving Clone?

What's it like to have to constantly pretend this is a court-of-law.
And that anyone should fear your overarching-reliance on witness guesses
and estimations?

'total lack of arguments'
Why argue about that which is so obvious.
[Oswald killed Tippit/rosetta-stoned Kennedy)

total lack of evidence
Plenty of people @Tippit and environs that day, Sluggo.

'total lack of arguments'
Why argue about that which is so obvious.
[Oswald killed Tippit/rosetta-stoned Kennedy)

If it is really so obvious that you've got nothing to argue about, what exactly are you doing here?

[Oswald killed Tippit/rosetta-stoned Kennedy)

That's your flawed opinion and thus something to argue about. Unless of course you can only claim it but not prove it.