Et tu, Bonnie?

[Colin Crow]

Colin-  I give you lots of credit for actually researching and trying to support your conclusions.  That places you well beyond the average contrarian or CTer who posts here without ever doing so or suggesting that they don't have to prove anything as though they are Oswald's lawyer in a criminal trial.  But it makes the conclusions that you reach no less outlandish.  There is no mystery about the chicken sandwich or BRW.   He explained his lunch and movements.  His language and recollections are perhaps not scientifically precise about every event that took place that day (many of which would have been mundane at the time they occurred) but that is no basis to reach any outlandish conclusions about what was motivating BRW's actions.  To suggest this individual saw the assassin (Oswald or otherwise), was allowed to leave the floor by this gunman, decided to say or do nothing about this notable event, and instead move down to the windows directly below where he had reason to believe someone was getting ready to shoot the President, and then forever remain silent just doesn't add up as a plausible narrative without even getting into the complete absence of any evidence of such.   It does lead to one of my favorite question and answer sessions in the WC, though:

Mr. BALL. What did you have in your lunch?
Mr. WILLIAMS. I had a chicken sandwich.
Mr. BALL. Describe the sandwich. What did it have in it besides chicken?
Mr. WILLIAMS. Well, it just had chicken in it. Chicken on the bone.
Mr. BALL. Chicken on the bone?
Mr. WILLIAMS. Yes.
Mr. BALL. The chicken was not boned?
Mr. WILLIAMS. It was just chicken on the bone. Just plain old chicken.
Mr. BALL. Did it have bread around it?
Mr. WILLIAMS. Yes, it did.

Something to ponder. We are supposed to believe BRW sat in anticipation of seeing the Presidential motorcade for 15 minutes or so on the sixth floor. Not knowing exactly when it would pass. All that time behind a dirty closed window. When he does go down to the 5th, he opens one.

I don’t know what made him leave the SN so late. I can’t explain exactly why several officers would describe chicken outside the bag when Studebaker claimed it was all inside. Seems to me someone "tidied" the bones into the bag early on and dropped it a couple of windows over (Hill). No conspiracy just incompetence in handling a crime scene. Then CYA.....no CIA.

What I do know is Williams, Jarman, Norman and Givens all provided contradictory statements. Jarman and Norman in particular attempted to mislead by claiming Williams ascended with them. These earlier statements were never challenged or raised by the WC lawyers during testimony.

[Colin Crow]

It's ok I found this myself. You obviously had more important posts to reply to. Is it what you were referring to?



Not much detail about how the 2 inches of open end secure the stock from poking through. Nice cartoon though, always good for a laugh.

Was this the Organ construction you referred to Bill. I never got a reply to my request for a link. You reference it again but provide nothing. At least you're consistent.

PS numerous was supposed to be humorous, apple generated typo. You got in before I edited.

PPS As I said, JohnM was at least open to the evidence presented. He was able to maintain his LN belief. We both agreed Williams likely saw the assassin.

[Alan J. Ford]

He truly didn't remember

We know it wasn't when Roy Truly accompanied Chief Lumpkin upstairs to tell Captain Fritz the wrongly-accused was missing, because by then the entire 6th floor was covered by law-enforcement...leaving even the superintendent himself limited access.

So, that time-interval is out, leaving us wondering just when was Roy Truly privy to the sniper's nest--his words, not mine ---->

Mr. BELIN. When did you get over to the southeast corner of the sixth floor?
Mr. TRULY. That I can't answer. I don't remember when I went over there. It was sometime before I learned that they had found either the rifle or the spent shell cases.

While he was privy to the sniper's nest before the incriminating evidence was found means he had ample opportunity to plant "evidence".

Save for his Freudian Slip--perhaps due to age and/or fatigue--we wouldn't have known Roy Truly was even in the sniper's nest before the incriminating evidence was found.  The prevailing questions now is when was Roy Truly in the sniper's nest...and what was he doing there? and why?

[Bill Chapman]

Was this the Organ construction you referred to Bill. I never got a reply to my request for a link. You reference it again but provide nothing. At least you're consistent.

PS numerous was supposed to be humorous, apple generated typo. You got in before I edited.

PPS As I said, JohnM was at least open to the evidence presented. He was able to maintain his LN belief. We both agreed Williams likely saw the assassin.

Not given his testifying that from his vantage point he could only see the top of the windows of the sn.

And I did not refer to any specific Organ graphic. I should have said 'go-to guy' I suppose... based on the high quality of his work. The Organ graphic here is obviously about the actual carrying position, not a deconstruction of the bag itself. More importantly a 34.8" sized object still fits into a 38" bag where I come from, no matter how much one wants to fantasize about the bag being built for a 27" mystery object.

[Alan J. Ford]

Gentlemen,

It is encouraging to read one of their more interesting pursuits lately within this thread...folks are beginning to gauge/weigh the statements, actions and movements of this thread's namesake, Mr. Williams (Bonnie Ray). A glaring red-flag arises when we take into account his first day affidavit (a link to it is in the initial post (page 1) for those who may not have already read it; and, his sudden departure from it four months later amid his Warren Commission testimony. Like his counterparts--the lying rooftop tandem--the evolving statements of Mr. Williams' bears the stench of a hastily contrived script.

A few questions that arise here are: (A) What were his true whereabouts given his two different versions of his "truth"; (B) Why did he initially lie in his same day affidavit? or (C) Is his WC testimony four months later a lie? Either way he is mired in quicksand of his own doing, or perhaps at the handling of someone he holds an allegiance to for whatever reason...that said, a much closer examination and spotlight on his actual movements & purpose is further research time well spent.

Last thought today, now taking into consideration WFAA journalist Tom Alyea's photo of Roy Truly, Marrion Baker, etc shared below by topshelf researcher Mr. Davidson ---->

Quote from: Chris Davidson on April 08, 2021, 01:19:24 AM
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1thgfDT6J0DCMaiKRdG9aJq9cDElhMJQW/view?usp=sharing

By pinpointing the arrival time of Captain Fritz to the Texas School Book Depository (1:58PM CST) his words per his testimony; and the following remarks by Marrion Baker...

Mr. BELIN - Did you leave Mr. Truly or did you stay with him?
Mr. BAKER - I left Mr. Truly there.
Mr. BELIN - Then what did you do?
Mr. BAKER - I immediately went on out. I was with this motorcade and I went right on straight through the front door and got on my motorcycle and tried to find out what happened to the motorcade.

The importance here of comparing both timelines (Captain Fritz's arrival time to the crime scene and Baker's departure prior to that arrival) is to highlight that Tom Alyea couldn't have captured Roy Truly & Marrion Baker together unless his photo was taken upon his initial rush into the building w/police.

After Baker's departure no one, let alone Mr. Alyea could have produced the photo we see in the link placing him and Roy Truly together in that huddle. The more telling revelation here is that once again further evidence emerges that the lying rooftop tandem weren't otherwise busy charging up the backstairs amid a hastily contrived script.

Lest anyone thinks Tom Alyea took that "huddle" photo after the exploits of the lying rooftop tandem just read the following to know precisely where Mr. Alyea was looong after Marrion Baker's departure...

Fritz had joined the search party on the 5th floor and directed us to
> the elevator to go to the 6th floor. After about five minutes, an
> officer shouted to Capt. Fritz to come to the front window. I presume
> it was Mooney, I have never seen him before. This man did not go
> behind the barricade. Capt. Fritz and I arrived seconds later to look
> over the first barricade and see the open window with three book
> cartons stacked at and in the window. We looked over the first
> barricade and saw three shell casings. -- Tom Alyea

Why did the lying rooftop tandem lie about their exploits upon that otherwise locked roof from the inside? Why was Roy Truly in the SN before incriminating evidence was found? ---->

Mr. BELIN. When did you get over to the southeast corner of the sixth floor?
Mr. TRULY. That I can't answer. I don't remember when I went over there. It was sometime before I learned that they had found either the rifle or the spent shell cases.

[Dan O'meara]

Not given his testifying that from his vantage point he could only see the top of the windows of the sn.

And I did not refer to any specific Organ graphic. I should have said 'go-to guy' I suppose... based on the high quality of his work. The Organ graphic here is obviously about the actual carrying position, not a deconstruction of the bag itself. More importantly a 34.8" sized object still fits into a 38" bag where I come from, no matter how much one wants to fantasize about the bag being built for a 27" mystery object.

"...no matter how much one wants to fantasize about the bag being built for a 27" mystery object."

I assume your referring to the analysis of the construction of the bag I put forward a while back.
If you disagree with the analysis have the decency to say why you disagree with it rather than infer I'm a fantasist.
Just to clarify - I'm not saying the bag did carry an object 27" or less in length. I'm saying the bag was specifically constructed to do that. There's a difference.

[Dan O'meara]

Gentlemen,

It is encouraging to read one of their more interesting pursuits lately within this thread...folks are beginning to gauge/weigh the statements, actions and movements of this thread's namesake, Mr. Williams (Bonnie Ray). A glaring red-flag arises when we take into account his first day affidavit (a link to it is in the initial post (page 1) for those who may not have already read it; and, his sudden departure from it four months later amid his Warren Commission testimony. Like his counterparts--the lying rooftop tandem--the evolving statements of Mr. Williams' bears the stench of a hastily contrived script.

A few questions that arise here are: (A) What were his true whereabouts given his two different versions of his "truth"; (B) Why did he initially lie in his same day affidavit? or (C) Is his WC testimony four months later a lie? Either way he is mired in quicksand of his own doing, or perhaps at the handling of someone he holds an allegiance to for whatever reason...that said, a much closer examination and spotlight on his actual movements & purpose is further research time well spent.

Last thought today, now taking into consideration WFAA journalist Tom Alyea's photo of Roy Truly, Marrion Baker, etc shared below by topshelf researcher Mr. Davidson ---->

Quote from: Chris Davidson on April 08, 2021, 01:19:24 AM
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1thgfDT6J0DCMaiKRdG9aJq9cDElhMJQW/view?usp=sharing

By pinpointing the arrival time of Captain Fritz to the Texas School Book Depository (1:58PM CST) his words per his testimony; and the following remarks by Marrion Baker...

Mr. BELIN - Did you leave Mr. Truly or did you stay with him?
Mr. BAKER - I left Mr. Truly there.
Mr. BELIN - Then what did you do?
Mr. BAKER - I immediately went on out. I was with this motorcade and I went right on straight through the front door and got on my motorcycle and tried to find out what happened to the motorcade.

The importance here of comparing both timelines (Captain Fritz's arrival time to the crime scene and Baker's departure prior to that arrival) is to highlight that Tom Alyea couldn't have captured Roy Truly & Marrion Baker together unless his photo was taken upon his initial rush into the building w/police.

After Baker's departure no one, let alone Mr. Alyea could have produced the photo we see in the link placing him and Roy Truly together in that huddle. The more telling revelation here is that once again further evidence emerges that the lying rooftop tandem weren't otherwise busy charging up the backstairs amid a hastily contrived script.

Lest anyone thinks Tom Alyea took that "huddle" photo after the exploits of the lying rooftop tandem just read the following to know precisely where Mr. Alyea was looong after Marrion Baker's departure...

Fritz had joined the search party on the 5th floor and directed us to
> the elevator to go to the 6th floor. After about five minutes, an
> officer shouted to Capt. Fritz to come to the front window. I presume
> it was Mooney, I have never seen him before. This man did not go
> behind the barricade. Capt. Fritz and I arrived seconds later to look
> over the first barricade and see the open window with three book
> cartons stacked at and in the window. We looked over the first
> barricade and saw three shell casings. -- Tom Alyea

Why did the lying rooftop tandem lie about their exploits upon that otherwise locked roof from the inside? Why was Roy Truly in the SN before incriminating evidence was found? ---->

Mr. BELIN. When did you get over to the southeast corner of the sixth floor?
Mr. TRULY. That I can't answer. I don't remember when I went over there. It was sometime before I learned that they had found either the rifle or the spent shell cases.

"...his sudden departure from it four months later amid his Warren Commission testimony."

There was no sudden departure four months later.
Williams changed his tune the next day after his affidavit on the 22nd.
In a FBI interview on the 23rd he admits he went up to the 6th floor to have lunch.

"By pinpointing the arrival time of Captain Fritz to the Texas School Book Depository (1:58PM CST)"

Fritz arrives at the TSBD at 12:58 PM according to his testimony, not 1:58 PM

"Lest anyone thinks Tom Alyea took that "huddle" photo after the exploits of the lying rooftop tandem just read the following to know precisely where Mr. Alyea was looong after Marrion Baker's departure..."

Alyea was in the TSBD looong before Fritz arrived. He took the footage of Baker and Truly after they had arrived back on the first floor.

Talk about a hastily contrived script.

[Colin Crow]

I reckon that Williams did in fact see Oswald in the sniper's nest because why would he go up to the 6th floor to sit with his mates and just plonk himself down in the middle of the floor without checking all the windows?

When Williams went down to the 5th floor he obviously went to the windows directly below the sniper's nest, so what stopped him doing the same on the floor above?



When confronted with the following wall of boxes, would Williams simply shout out to his friends and after not hearing an answer just move on or would he have a peek to see if his friends were there and perhaps just horsing around?



And from the following exchange from Williams testimony, after Ford heard Williams explain what happened on the 6th floor Ford immediately attempt to associate Williams with breaking the law, which could indicate that they thought that Williams was lying?

Mr. DULLES. How much of the room could you see as you finished your lunch there? Was your view obstructed by boxes of books, or could you see a good bit of the sixth floor?
Mr. WILLIAMS. Well, at the time I couldn't see too much of the sixth floor, because the books at the time were stacked so high. I could see only in the path that I was standing--as I remember, I could not possibly see anything to the east side of the building. But just one aisle, the aisle I was standing in I could see just about to the west side of the building. So far as seeing to the east and behind me, I could only see down the aisle behind me and the aisle to the west of me.
Representative FORD.Have you ever had any trouble with the law at all?
Mr. WILLIAMS. No, sir.
Representative FORD.No difficulty as far as the law is concerned?

JohnM