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Author Topic: Et tu, Bonnie?  (Read 72096 times)

Offline Alan Ford

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Re: Et tu, Bonnie?
« Reply #352 on: April 20, 2021, 06:41:34 PM »
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How can BRW be allowed to just wander off. The assassin must "neutralise" him in some way - tying him up or even killing him. He can't set him free hoping he won't raise the alarm just because he "promised".
(...)
If he was confronted by a stranger/stranger with a rifle/familiar face with a rifle Williams would surely have raised the alarm - he certainly wouldn't have gone down a floor to carry on watching the motorcade.

There's a simple solution here, Mr O'Meara: Mr Williams encounters credentials-flashing men who tell him they are part of Presidential security and he must leave the floor.

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Re: Et tu, Bonnie?
« Reply #352 on: April 20, 2021, 06:41:34 PM »


Online Dan O'meara

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Re: Et tu, Bonnie?
« Reply #353 on: April 20, 2021, 06:46:52 PM »
There's a simple solution here, Mr O'Meara: Mr Williams encounters credentials-flashing men who tell him they are part of Presidential security and he must leave the floor.

It's not a solution Alan, just another possibility.
How long have these "credential flashing men" been on the 6th floor?
They have either arrived with less than 5 minutes to go before the arrival of the motorcade (not very professional) or they've been hiding behind some boxes hoping BRW would leave then finally decided they'd had enough.

Online Richard Smith

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Re: Et tu, Bonnie?
« Reply #354 on: April 20, 2021, 07:33:02 PM »
There's a simple solution here, Mr O'Meara: Mr Williams encounters credentials-flashing men who tell him they are part of Presidential security and he must leave the floor.

And they count on him to remain forever quiet and even lie about this encounter?  Even after he becomes aware that they were involved in the assassination.  Not plausible.  Imagine the plan.  They go to all this time and trouble to frame Oswald, they are seen moments before the assassination on the 6th floor and/or SN, and they allow BRW to walk away hoping he doesn't raise an alarm or blow the Oswald frame up by doing the logical thing - just telling the truth.  Let me guess.  You have another story to explain why BRW never reveals this encounter.

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Re: Et tu, Bonnie?
« Reply #354 on: April 20, 2021, 07:33:02 PM »


Online Richard Smith

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Re: Et tu, Bonnie?
« Reply #355 on: April 20, 2021, 07:55:53 PM »
Who said anything about other TSBD employees? What about, for example, all the police officers that were in or near the S/N?

Are you really trying to tell us that in a warehouse filled with boxes and lots of staff handling them, Oswald's fingerprints were somehow the only prints on those boxes? Really?

Here's a reality check; on 4 boxes there were 25 prints found that were clear enough to make identification matches. In addition there were more prints that were too fragmented for identification. Out if all these prints only 1 right index fingerprint and 1 left palmprint were identified as Oswald's. Or did Latona, Mandella and Wittmus Lie?

You are all over the place.  Again, Oswald was the only TSBD employee whose prints were identified as being on the SN boxes.  That's plural as in multiple different SN boxes with Oswald's prints.  If, as you suggest, these boxes had lots of TSBD "staff" handling them then we would expect to find the prints of other TSBD employees.  That would marginally support your claim that there was nothing incriminatory about Oswald's prints being on the SN boxes because he worked there.  But no other TSBD left identifiable prints on those boxes.   Just Oswald.  What bad luck for him!  I'm not sure what you are babbling about with the police lying or implying that if someone leaves only one fingerprint or palmprint that somehow makes the identification questionable.  If Oswald left an identifiable print - even a single fingerprint on a box - that means he touched it.  Many of the prints found on these boxes were linked to the DPD or FBI investigators and eliminated from any connection to the assassination. 

Offline Alan Ford

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Re: Et tu, Bonnie?
« Reply #356 on: April 20, 2021, 07:57:56 PM »
It's not a solution Alan, just another possibility.
How long have these "credential flashing men" been on the 6th floor?
They have either arrived with less than 5 minutes to go before the arrival of the motorcade (not very professional) or they've been hiding behind some boxes hoping BRW would leave then finally decided they'd had enough.

One of the most interesting details in Mr Williams' testimony is this------------

MR. WILLIAMS. Well, at the time everybody was talking like they was going to watch from the sixth floor. I think Billy Lovelady said he wanted to watch from up there. And also my friend; this Spanish boy, by the name of Danny Arce, we had agreed at first to come back up to the sixth floor. So I thought everybody was going to be on the sixth floor.

Why did nobody go up to six to watch the motorcade from that excellent vantage point? Most curious!

I would NOT assume that Mr Williams was the only employee to innocently go back up on six and encounter men posing as SS. The floor would have been commandeered well before the motorcade arrived, and a method for keeping employees off the floor put in place. These people would not have trusted to luck.

Ms Mary Hall saw a key moment in all this: "she saw a white male, wearing a hat, apparently looking for something among boxes... a few minutes later they all went to have lunch and watch the President's motorcade".

Maybe the men on the sixth floor were let into the building before working hours that morning and hid up on seven; maybe they arrived in the building around noon and went up. We'll likely never know, and it doesn't greatly matter.
« Last Edit: April 20, 2021, 08:02:45 PM by Alan Ford »

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Re: Et tu, Bonnie?
« Reply #356 on: April 20, 2021, 07:57:56 PM »


Offline Alan Ford

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Re: Et tu, Bonnie?
« Reply #357 on: April 20, 2021, 08:01:12 PM »
And they count on him to remain forever quiet and even lie about this encounter?  Even after he becomes aware that they were involved in the assassination.  Not plausible.  Imagine the plan.  They go to all this time and trouble to frame Oswald,

Who says that framing Mr Oswald as the gunman was their aim?

Quote
they are seen moments before the assassination on the 6th floor and/or SN, and they allow BRW to walk away hoping he doesn't raise an alarm or blow the Oswald frame up by doing the logical thing - just telling the truth.  Let me guess.  You have another story to explain why BRW never reveals this encounter.

Yes-----------he liked being alive.

Offline Martin Weidmann

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Re: Et tu, Bonnie?
« Reply #358 on: April 20, 2021, 08:21:02 PM »
You are all over the place.  Again, Oswald was the only TSBD employee whose prints were identified as being on the SN boxes.  That's plural as in multiple different SN boxes with Oswald's prints.  If, as you suggest, these boxes had lots of TSBD "staff" handling them then we would expect to find the prints of other TSBD employees.  That would marginally support your claim that there was nothing incriminatory about Oswald's prints being on the SN boxes because he worked there.  But no other TSBD left identifiable prints on those boxes.   Just Oswald.  What bad luck for him!  I'm not sure what you are babbling about with the police lying or implying that if someone leaves only one fingerprint or palmprint that somehow makes the identification questionable.  If Oswald left an identifiable print - even a single fingerprint on a box - that means he touched it.  Many of the prints found on these boxes were linked to the DPD or FBI investigators and eliminated from any connection to the assassination.


Many of the prints found on these boxes were linked to the DPD or FBI investigators and eliminated from any connection to the assassination. Really?

Mr. EISENBERG. Mr. Chairman, I would like that box admitted as 653.
Mr. DULLES. It shall be admitted.
Mr. EISENBERG. How many identifiable prints did you find on this carton?
Mr. LATONA. There were seven fingerprints and two palmprints developed on Commission Exhibit 653.
Mr. EISENBERG. That is, identifiable prints?
Mr. LATONA. Identifiable prints.
Mr. EISENBERG. Did you identify any of those prints as belonging to a specific person?
Mr. LATONA. I did not.
Mr. EISENBERG. May I have 654 marked, Box C, Mr. Chairman? Did you also examine Box C?
Mr. LATONA. Box C, yes, sir.
Mr. EISENBERG. May I have that admitted as 654?
Mr. DULLES. It shall be admitted as Commission Exhibit 654.
(Commission Exhibit No. 654 was marked and received in evidence.)
Mr. EISENBERG. Did you find any latent identifiable prints on 654?
Mr. LATONA. I found two fingerprints and one palmprint.
Mr. EISENBERG. Did you identify them as belonging to a specific individual?
Mr. LATONA. I did not identify them.
Mr. EISENBERG. Now, did you attempt to identify them with Lee Harvey Oswald's known prints?
Mr. LATONA. Yes; and they are not Lee Harvey Oswald's print.

Again, Oswald was the only TSBD employee whose prints were identified as being on the SN boxes.  That's plural as in multiple different SN boxes with Oswald's prints.

Stop lying, "Richard"!

Mr. EISENBERG. So you found 13 identifiable prints, Mr. Latona. Were you able to identify any of these prints as belonging to a specific individual?
Mr. LATONA. We were able to identify one fingerprint and one palmprint.
Mr. EISENBERG. And whose prints were they?
Mr. LATONA. The fingerprint was identified as Harvey Lee Oswald.
Mr. EISENBERG. That is Lee Harvey Oswald?
Mr. LATONA. That is right.
Mr. EISENBERG. And the palm?
Mr. LATONA. The palmprint was identified also as Harvey Lee Oswald.

On all the boxes they found one fingerprint and one palmprint belonging to Oswald. That's the only print they were looking for. None of the other prints belonged to Oswald and they simply did not bother to identify them
« Last Edit: April 20, 2021, 08:22:56 PM by Martin Weidmann »

Online Richard Smith

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Re: Et tu, Bonnie?
« Reply #359 on: April 20, 2021, 08:26:43 PM »
Who says that framing Mr Oswald as the gunman was their aim?



You, for example.  Since you think Oswald was innocent and framed.  What else would this sinister squad be doing on the 6th floor forcing people to leave?  And they don't care that BRW has seen them for whatever purpose you believe that they were there for?  Is it fair to say that in this fantasy, that these folks would not want their presence on the 6th floor reported by BRW because they were in the commission of some criminal act in connection with the assassination?  And by allowing him to leave they risked his reporting their presence either before or after the event.  Which seems like the most likely thing for him to have done had this really happened.

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Re: Et tu, Bonnie?
« Reply #359 on: April 20, 2021, 08:26:43 PM »