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Offline Robin Unger

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Re: ?
« Reply #24 on: May 13, 2021, 06:43:55 PM »
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« Last Edit: May 13, 2021, 06:47:22 PM by Robin Unger »

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Re: ?
« Reply #24 on: May 13, 2021, 06:43:55 PM »


Offline John Mytton

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Re: ?
« Reply #25 on: May 15, 2021, 11:23:28 AM »
Here we learn that because a bus transfer found in Oswald's possession is allegedly pristine that means it must have been planted.  A dubious subjective claim. 

The only problem with the "pristine" bus transfer is, it actually isn't! Doh!

The back of Oswald's bus transfer shows numerous creases


Mr. BALL - Did your punch mark have a distinctive mark?
Mr. McWATTERS - It had a distinctive mark and it is registered, in other words, all the drivers, every driver has a different punch mark.
Mr. BALL - What makes it different?
Mr. McWATTERS - Well, it is, it would be, the symbol of it or angle, in other words, every one; it is different, in other words.
Mr. BALL - You have a punch there?
Mr. McWATTERS - Yes, sir; I have the punch right here.
Mr. BALL - Is that the punch that you used?
Mr. McWATTERS - That is the punch I used.
Mr. BALL - Will you punch a piece of paper and show us?
Mr. McWATTERS - In other words, that is the type of punch that this one makes right here, in other words.
Mr. BALL - That is a different type of punch than any other driver has?
Mr. McWATTERS - Any driver, in other words.
Mr. BALL - On any bus in Dallas?
Mr. McWATTERS - In other words, the superintendent has a list, in other words, it would be just like this and every man has a punch and he has his name, and everything. In other words, if anyone calls in about a transfer or anything, I mean brings one in he can look right down the list by the punch mark and tell whose punch it is, and who it is registered to.
Mr. BALL - Now, the sample of your punch there has been on a piece of paper and we would like to have it marked as 372 at this time.
(The paper referred to was marked Commission Exhibit No. 372 and received in evidence.)




JohnM

« Last Edit: May 15, 2021, 11:27:11 AM by John Mytton »

Offline Dan O'meara

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Re: ?
« Reply #26 on: May 15, 2021, 04:59:34 PM »
Where does this transfer ticket entitle Oswald to travel to?



The only Lakeland I can find is north-west of Dallas central

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Re: ?
« Reply #26 on: May 15, 2021, 04:59:34 PM »


Online Richard Smith

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Re: ?
« Reply #27 on: May 16, 2021, 05:00:04 PM »
Where does this transfer ticket entitle Oswald to travel to?



The only Lakeland I can find is north-west of Dallas central

I believe "Lakewood" is just a designation of the "line" that the transfer was issued on (as explained in a somewhat complicated fashion by McWatters).  The transfer was valid for a very limited duration and could be used at a transfer point as explained by David Belin:  https://www.fordlibrarymuseum.gov/library/document/0393/23811297.pdf

Mr. McWATTERS - On here. Well, if it is in the morning or in the afternoon, here is your a.m., or your p.m. In other words, it is before 12:45, in other words, we consider up to 12:45 a.m., in other words, that is the way they are.
In other words, I would punch it in the a.m. side of it, and if it was in the afternoon, in other words, after that, it would be a p.m. transfer, and whatever line that you are working has the name on it right here.
In other words, at that time that transfer I had punched was punched a p.m. Lakewood, in other words, because I was coming from the Lakewood addition is the way that was punched on the transfer.
Mr. BALL - Well now, do you punch the transfer when the passenger asks for it?
Mr. McWATTERS - No. No, sir; in other words, when you leave this, you are inbound when you are going into town or when you are going, in other words, out of town, in other words.
I was coming in, in other words, when I got in Lakewood Addition I set my transfers for downtown.

« Last Edit: May 16, 2021, 07:23:43 PM by Richard Smith »

Offline Dan O'meara

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Re: ?
« Reply #28 on: May 16, 2021, 07:33:08 PM »
I believe "Lakewood" is just a designation of the "line" that the transfer was issued on (as explained in a somewhat complicated fashion by McWatters).  The transfer was valid for a very limited duration and could be used at a transfer point as explained by David Belin:  https://www.fordlibrarymuseum.gov/library/document/0393/23811297.pdf

Mr. McWATTERS - On here. Well, if it is in the morning or in the afternoon, here is your a.m., or your p.m. In other words, it is before 12:45, in other words, we consider up to 12:45 a.m., in other words, that is the way they are.
In other words, I would punch it in the a.m. side of it, and if it was in the afternoon, in other words, after that, it would be a p.m. transfer, and whatever line that you are working has the name on it right here.
In other words, at that time that transfer I had punched was punched a p.m. Lakewood, in other words, because I was coming from the Lakewood addition is the way that was punched on the transfer.
Mr. BALL - Well now, do you punch the transfer when the passenger asks for it?
Mr. McWATTERS - No. No, sir; in other words, when you leave this, you are inbound when you are going into town or when you are going, in other words, out of town, in other words.
I was coming in, in other words, when I got in Lakewood Addition I set my transfers for downtown.

So, the Lakewood "line" starts in Lakewood and has a termination point somewhere and Oswald would be free to use his transfer only on the Lakewood "line", that same day, until it's no longer "PM".
I'm going to try to find out the stops on the Lakewood line to where it terminates as it seems to make sense Oswald brought it with him for a purpose.
If he changed shirts he deliberately took the transfer with him.

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Re: ?
« Reply #28 on: May 16, 2021, 07:33:08 PM »


Online Richard Smith

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Re: ?
« Reply #29 on: May 16, 2021, 07:48:21 PM »
So, the Lakewood "line" starts in Lakewood and has a termination point somewhere and Oswald would be free to use his transfer only on the Lakewood "line", that same day, until it's no longer "PM".
I'm going to try to find out the stops on the Lakewood line to where it terminates as it seems to make sense Oswald brought it with him for a purpose.
If he changed shirts he deliberately took the transfer with him.

The Belin memo provides more specifics.  It appears that the transfer was valid until 1:15 or until the next scheduled bus if that did not occur until after 1:15.  Belin notes a transfer point on Jefferson which he indicates is the "only" transfer point that can be used after leaving downtown Dallas and only three blocks from the scene of the Tippit shooting.  A number of buses could be caught there.

Offline Dan O'meara

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Re: ?
« Reply #30 on: May 16, 2021, 08:48:12 PM »
The Belin memo provides more specifics.  It appears that the transfer was valid until 1:15 or until the next scheduled bus if that did not occur until after 1:15.  Belin notes a transfer point on Jefferson which he indicates is the "only" transfer point that can be used after leaving downtown Dallas and only three blocks from the scene of the Tippit shooting.  A number of buses could be caught there.

Nice one Richard.
The main thing that has bothered me since I started looking into the Tippit murder was a distinct feeling Oswald was heading somewhere very specific when he left the rooming house and that he was in a hurry to get there. The limited timespan of the ticket would cause the need for haste and the very limited amount of money he had on him would account for his need to get there on foot if he were to need the money elsewhere.
The Belin memo provides a tantalising possibility for his movements.
If Tippit had not shown up Oswald might have made his connection and been on the beginning of his journey across the border.

Offline Alan J. Ford

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Re: ?
« Reply #31 on: May 18, 2021, 08:36:28 PM »
The CTer "mind" and use of "logic" are curious things to behold.  Here we learn that because a bus transfer found in Oswald's possession is allegedly pristine that means it must have been planted. 

*My response: It was planted, otherwise--given the photos shared here by Mr. Chapman of the wrongly accused's torn & tattered shirt in Post 9--it would have bore considerable tearing, crinkling, etc. It doesn't, so that means it has more magical powers than the magic-bullet (please excuse the eye-roll) or it was planted akin to the shell casings ---->

Mr. BELIN. When did you get over to the southeast corner of the sixth floor?
Mr. TRULY. That I can't answer. I don't remember when I went over there. It was sometime before I learned that they had found either the rifle or the spent shell cases.

Again, in their haste to frame the wrongly accused they simply overlooked the small but important detail upon planting that bus transfer "evidence" upon him loooong after that intense physical altercation...

A dubious subjective claim.  And we are left to ponder why the conspirators need to put Oswald on a random bus that goes nowhere...

*My response: On the contrary, they had little choice but to imply he was at 10th & Patton, thus their hastily contrived script about his means of transportation to get there. Framed at Dealey Plaza and also Framed at 10th & Patton.

 There is no way that any conspirator goes through this risky charade simply to put Oswald on the bus to nowhere.  It is laughable when viewed through the narrative of a fake event supported only by the subjective assessment that the bus transfer should not be "pristine."
[/quote

*Reread my above responses...they Framed him in Dealey Plaza and also at 10th & Patton, thus creating horse manure to get him there was necessary. However, as runs rampant in their haste to frame the wrongly accused they overlooked the small yet very important details. The wrongly accused did Not shoot anybody. Anybody.
« Last Edit: May 18, 2021, 08:39:21 PM by Alan J. Ford »

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Re: ?
« Reply #31 on: May 18, 2021, 08:36:28 PM »