DPD Tapes and a 6 Minute Discrepancy

[Chris Scally]

Dan - you refer in your OP to a recording and transcript, and to notations about "splices" and material being "duplicated", or words to that effect. As I said, I'm working completely from memory here, as I've put most of my files into off-site storage, so could you tell me what transcript and copy of the recordings you are working from, please. Your answer might just help jog my memory, and if so, I'll do my best to help you out.

[Dan DAlimonte]

Question: Were the dictabelts "voice activated" or "sound activated? I have read it was the latter.

For example, Bowles said in his piece cited earlier that there were instances on the recordings where a sound activated a dictabelt but no actual sound was recorded. Or could be heard.

Hey Chris - second Dan here - if no one extended this tp you - Welcome to the Forum.
As for the different variations in the Radio Relays I came up with my theory way back in the 90's and I used the originals as released by SS Agent Warren Or Warner in Dec 1963.  In other words they were the very first released or the first on record.  I did notice the discrepancies Yes - there is a misplaced page and it does happen just before an arrest.   Yes Everett 67 said - Did-  they - head south - Yes - from the Dispatcher.  In later versions - Do you want me to go south - Answer - Yes.  This happened right after Craig stated to someone he thought was an SS man about suspects fleeing in a station wagon.  Craig stated the SS man seemed more interested in the car than the discriptions of the suspects?
Etc ...     

[Dan O'meara]

Dan - you refer in your OP to a recording and transcript, and to notations about "splices" and material being "duplicated", or words to that effect. As I said, I'm working completely from memory here, as I've put most of my files into off-site storage, so could you tell me what transcript and copy of the recordings you are working from, please. Your answer might just help jog my memory, and if so, I'll do my best to help you out.

Hi Chris,

I've been using this version on the McAdams site - https://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/dpdtapes/index.htm

The first splice is mentioned on page two, about half way down the section that has the time call 12:55 (obviously all splices on Channel 1)

The second splice occurs just after the 1:12 time call (page two). I find this splice odd as there is a relatively short time between splices.

The third splice occurs on page three, just after the 1:32 time call.

The fourth splice occurs on page three, just after the 1:44 time call.

Just using the time calls as an incredibly rough approximation

The first splice occurs after 27 minutes (12:28 to 12:55) but there is no way of knowing when the tape was spliced before 12:28

The second splice occurs after 17 minutes (12:55 to 1:12)

The third splice occurs after 20 minutes (1:12 to 1:32)

The fourth splice occurs after 12 minutes (1:32 to 1:44)

[Chris Scally]

Hi Dan D'Alimonte -

OK, I recall the Secret Service transcript, made by SA Warner. Unfortunately, it is probably the worst, and most inaccurate, transcript that was produced. In fairness to the Secret Service, the transcript was made in Washington, and almost certainly by people who were totally unfamiliar with the geography of Dallas, and the terminology of the DPD. Also, we know that the first thing Agent Warner did was to copy the original dictabelts, after which he sent the copies (on an unknown medium) to Washington for transcription. Also, the transcript was produced in something of a hurry, so unfortunately the end result was what can only be described as chaotic, and very misleading.

Chris 

[Martin Weidmann]

Hi Dan D'Alimonte -

OK, I recall the Secret Service transcript, made by SA Warner. Unfortunately, it is probably the worst, and most inaccurate, transcript that was produced. In fairness to the Secret Service, the transcript was made in Washington, and almost certainly by people who were totally unfamiliar with the geography of Dallas, and the terminology of the DPD. Also, we know that the first thing Agent Warner did was to copy the original dictabelts, after which he sent the copies (on an unknown medium) to Washington for transcription. Also, the transcript was produced in something of a hurry, so unfortunately the end result was what can only be described as chaotic, and very misleading.

Chris

Hi Chris,

Just one question. I think you are familiar with what J.C. Bowles to the HSCA. With that in mind and what you have written here, what is your judgement about the reliability of the time stamp calls on the recordings/transcripts?

[Chris Scally]

Hi Dan O'Meara:

From some notes I've uncovered here in my study tonight, I can tell you that the recordings used on that McAdams page are made from a cassette tape recording which was found in the Minneapolis Public Library many years ago by researcher Dave Dix. What I can tell you about it is that it almost certainly originated from a tape recording which originated from within the Dallas PD pre-1967. The tape recording was given to author Judy Bonner, who was at the time writing her book, “Investigation Of A Homicide”. In June 1969, Ms. Bonner’s tape was given to, or copied for, Dallas researcher Mary Ferrell, from whose tape most of those in the hands of early researchers until the early 1980's originated. Interestingly, examination of this version of the tape shows that it contains identical splice sounds (caused almost certainly, I believe, by shorter individual tapes being joined together in making the Bonner tape) to those on the recording found by Dave Dix - in other words, the Bonner/Ferrell tape unquestionably came from the same source as the one found by Dave Dix. As for the transcript, I know that Ms. Bonner included a transcript of the tape in her book, and the Channel 1 version attributed to Russ Shearer on the McAdams site appears to be a stripped-down version of the one in Judy Bonner's book. It is not, therefore, a verbatim transcript at all. The transcript in Ms. Bonner's book does not make any reference to the splices you mention, but the same splices are referenced in a different transcript of (presumably) the same recording which was subsequently made by Dallas researcher Arch Kimbrough around 1969.

You can therefore see from the foregoing just some of the difficulties that have been created over the years by transcripts - not all of which are verbatim - made by different people of what purports to be "the DPD radio recordings", but which are in fact copies - and usually copies that are many times removed - from the original Channel 1 dictabelt recordings. This cannot answer all of your questions, I'm afraid, but I hope it does explain why some very strange timing discrepancies can and do arise.

Sorry I cannot add much further at this time, but a detailed study of the recordings and transcripts is something to which I devoted a lot of time some years ago as I recovered from major heart surgery, but I'm essentially semi-retired at least from the research field now, and most of my old and rarely-accessed files are boxed up and stored off-site.

Chris.

 

[Chris Scally]

Hi Martin -

As far as I can remember, Jim Bowles' transcripts reflects what he estimates the time to be in many places, so the only accurate times are those which are spoken by the dispatchers themselves in the actual recordings based on whichever clocks they were looking at in the Dispatch office. 

[Dan O'meara]

Hi Dan O'Meara:

From some notes I've uncovered here in my study tonight, I can tell you that the recordings used on that McAdams page are made from a cassette tape recording which was found in the Minneapolis Public Library many years ago by researcher Dave Dix. What I can tell you about it is that it almost certainly originated from a tape recording which originated from within the Dallas PD pre-1967. The tape recording was given to author Judy Bonner, who was at the time writing her book, “Investigation Of A Homicide”. In June 1969, Ms. Bonner’s tape was given to, or copied for, Dallas researcher Mary Ferrell, from whose tape most of those in the hands of early researchers until the early 1980's originated. Interestingly, examination of this version of the tape shows that it contains identical splice sounds (caused almost certainly, I believe, by shorter individual tapes being joined together in making the Bonner tape) to those on the recording found by Dave Dix - in other words, the Bonner/Ferrell tape unquestionably came from the same source as the one found by Dave Dix. As for the transcript, I know that Ms. Bonner included a transcript of the tape in her book, and the Channel 1 version attributed to Russ Shearer on the McAdams site appears to be a stripped-down version of the one in Judy Bonner's book. It is not, therefore, a verbatim transcript at all. The transcript in Ms. Bonner's book does not make any reference to the splices you mention, but the same splices are referenced in a different transcript of (presumably) the same recording which was subsequently made by Dallas researcher Arch Kimbrough around 1969.

You can therefore see from the foregoing just some of the difficulties that have been created over the years by transcripts - not all of which are verbatim - made by different people of what purports to be "the DPD radio recordings", but which are in fact copies - and usually copies that are many times removed - from the original Channel 1 dictabelt recordings. This cannot answer all of your questions, I'm afraid, but I hope it does explain why some very strange timing discrepancies can and do arise.

Sorry I cannot add much further at this time, but a detailed study of the recordings and transcripts is something to which I devoted a lot of time some years ago as I recovered from major heart surgery, but I'm essentially semi-retired at least from the research field now, and most of my old and rarely-accessed files are boxed up and stored off-site.

Chris.

 

Genuinely amazing stuff Chris.
I got the impression, when I started looking into the tapes/transcripts, that I was staring into a very deep, dark hole and you seem to be confirming that.
From what you've said so far I'm coming away with the impression that the tapes and transcript are not as remotely solid as I thought they were and that serious discrepancies between "police time" and "real time" are more than a possibility. But I'm still struggling with something...
In the OP to this thread I believe I've made a convincing case for "police time" and "real time" being in synch around 12:30 PM. The discrepancy between the two "times" required to confirm the alternative timeline for the Tippit murder I mentioned, which interlocks a number of key witness testimonies, is around 6 minutes (maybe 5 at a pinch).
And this discrepancy has to be present 30 to 40 minutes after the synchronised point at 12:30 PM!
Is it realistic, in your opinion, that such a discrepancy could arise in such a short period of time? It seems to require something more substantial than a gradual divergence of the two "times".

Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated and, once again, great stuff.

[PS: I love that you've got the word "Newbie" under your name. It's probably the most inappropriate thing on this forum ever!]