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Author Topic: Who is sitting up in Zapruder @Z456?  (Read 51149 times)

Offline John Iacoletti

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Re: Who is sitting up in Zapruder @Z456?
« Reply #40 on: January 12, 2018, 11:08:45 PM »
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I don't see how her reaching for head matter would tell you anything about conspiracy one way or the other.

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Re: Who is sitting up in Zapruder @Z456?
« Reply #40 on: January 12, 2018, 11:08:45 PM »


Offline Steve Barber

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Re: Who is sitting up in Zapruder @Z456?
« Reply #41 on: January 13, 2018, 01:09:28 AM »
I don't see how her reaching for head matter would tell you anything about conspiracy one way or the other.

Well, I think that what conspiracy theorists think ( at least what I thought) was that if a piece of head matter landed on the trunk, it was because the shot from the front(that I once believed in) drove the skull backwards onto the trunk, following the  bullet trajectory.

Offline Dillon Rankine

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Re: Who is sitting up in Zapruder @Z456?
« Reply #42 on: January 13, 2018, 04:48:32 PM »
Well, I think that what conspiracy theorists think ( at least what I thought) was that if a piece of head matter landed on the trunk, it was because the shot from the front(that I once believed in) drove the skull backwards onto the trunk, following the  bullet trajectory.

A shot from the rear of would have had an identical result. Definitely some CTs think that it?s evidence, but as I said earlier, if it were as simple as this they wouldn?t need forensic experts to analyse the crime scene.

I?d say the film isn?t clear enough to see what either of her hands or grabbing if anything. Again, I wouldn?t expect to see neural tissue (especially cortical tissue) on the film. Brain tissue rarely remains a unit when there?s enough pressure from just handling it, so to expect a large visible chunk from a high velocity rifle shot is a serious stretch.

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Re: Who is sitting up in Zapruder @Z456?
« Reply #42 on: January 13, 2018, 04:48:32 PM »


Offline Allan Fritzke

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Re: Who is sitting up in Zapruder @Z456?
« Reply #43 on: January 15, 2018, 07:41:23 AM »
I was the first to discover this back in 2003 and wrote an article for John McAdams' website, after doing a cursory examination of the MPI Zapruder DVD. My article is available online at: http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/looking.htm 

The person sitting up is John Connally.  I also pointed this out to Dale Myers who didn't know about it while he was working on his second animation which was shown on ABC-TV.  People will argue that its President Kennedy all they want, but facts are facts. It's Connally.

I have to agree with your analysis as it matches my own.  Looking at Connally's own testimony 5 days later backs this up.  Connally's head can be seen between Nelly and Greer near the corner post as shown by that "spot" on the film on many frames.    I have pointed this out in my own youtube video.   (See my Post).  As far as Jacquie's reaction, she is trying to leave the scene.  After six seconds and no protection, what would you do?  The next bullet might accidentally hit you!!   Nothing unreasonable about reaching that conclusion!   I think if I was in that situation,  panic, flight and fright would be my only option.   I certainly wouldn't be considering  retrieving someone's brain matter from a trunk, even if it was my wife's!!!  I would be trying to save my own life at that point when you see your husband has been killed.  You will note however that there was no reaction by Jacqueline at z-313.   So in other words nothing had changed even though there was a 6 foot plume of blood and brain matter drawn in on those frames.  She doesn't react until the real head shot hits her husband at z-329.  That is when she bails!

The testimony of Clint Hill, does not match the film.  He is still trying to get on the car between the last shot at z-329 and z-383, Mrs. Kennedy is half way onto the trunk by z-383.   (That is 3 seconds later at 18 fps.)  The limo still isn't going fast enough yet that Hill can't leave the trailing car behind and catch up to the President's car and jump on!     He said he jumped onto the rear of the car and then his remark was that she said his head has been completely shot off.   No match to film! Sorry!  Another false statement by someone in on the plan!

Leaving the President's absolutely unguarded until this moment in time means one thing - you stay out of way until it is done.   Meanwhile lead car waits under or near the triple underpass.  Convenient as well!  No where near the scene!!  Carefully PLANNED!!

After first shot hits President at Z-227, you would expect the car to speed up and get out of there.  What would you do if you were the driver?    Slow down and come to almost a stop??   If your job is to protect someone, you would be fleeing the scene just as fast as you could.  Instead, the vehicles were still going slow enough that Hill could still jump on 8 seconds later - amazing!!!!!!!!!    So from first shot to when he gets on is (Z-378 minus Z-227 at 18 fps)  about 8.5 seconds.   So it means you were not going no 15 mph.  You were traveling just above walking speed in order that Hill can jump off the trailing car and move forward to the other car!    That is an amazing fact when you are in an ambush situation.  Also, this was Mrs. Kennedy's bodyguard and not JFK's!    Where was his bodyguard?   We hear about the bodyguard for LBJ jumping all over him to protect him and forcing him down to the floor.   No one protects the President throughout the entire sequence!!!! 

Obviously Greer was under orders to momentarily halt, let the assassin do his job and then move on - can't have it any other way!!   The minute the President moves his hands to his neck, 5.5 seconds follow before the next shot.   You hear gunshots - how would you react as a driver?    Two possibilities:
"Lets get out of here as fast as we can!!"    or   
"Lets slow down in the next 5 seconds and wait for a further attack!!!"?

Isn't that a fair assessment if you were in a car and being shot at simultaneously at the same time as  the President?   Sorry that is an illogical conclusion!    It must have been very poor training at the very least - definitely not instinctive evasive maneuver to save lives!!!!!

Earlier in this post, it has been suggested that there was a shot much earlier in the Zapruder  which I have dismissed!     If you want to consider that argument, the lead car was under the overpass by this time, out of the way and means no one in the front of the limo to consider evasive maneuver.   It would be prudent to speed up as fast as you can to avoid further damage if you are trying to protect yourself and your occupants.  Remember you are being paid top dollar to risk your life - as well as your occupants.  Alternatively, If you are letting someone get shot,  I guess you better follow the plan and do as you are told - slow down and get into position!
Certainly a shot earlier and missing and then having the neck shot come in, means you have even more time to react.  You better get out of there fast - not slow down to a stop!!!  Make the evasive action pronto!!


Offline John Iacoletti

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Re: Who is sitting up in Zapruder @Z456?
« Reply #44 on: January 16, 2018, 08:47:47 PM »
As far as Jacquie's reaction, she is trying to leave the scene.  After six seconds and no protection, what would you do?  The next bullet might accidentally hit you!!   Nothing unreasonable about reaching that conclusion!

Yes, because jumping out of a moving limo, especially in an area where bullets are flying, is a good way to save your own life.

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Re: Who is sitting up in Zapruder @Z456?
« Reply #44 on: January 16, 2018, 08:47:47 PM »


Offline Steve Barber

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Re: Who is sitting up in Zapruder @Z456?
« Reply #45 on: January 16, 2018, 09:02:42 PM »
Yes, because jumping out of a moving limo, especially in an area where bullets are flying, is a good way to save your own life.

She was in shock, John.  When a person is in the type of shock she was in, they don't know what they're doing.  Clint Hill said that she wasn't even aware that he was "there" when he ran to the limousine to push her back.  Don't any of you see how she treated her husbands head once she realized a large portion of it was gone as she stands up, screaming" My God, they've shot Jack!"? She pushes his head forward, then, as she is starting to turn to stand up, she shoves his head away from her. 

Offline John Mytton

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Re: Who is sitting up in Zapruder @Z456?
« Reply #46 on: January 16, 2018, 10:19:24 PM »
She was in shock, John.  When a person is in the type of shock she was in, they don't know what they're doing.  Clint Hill said that she wasn't even aware that he was "there" when he ran to the limousine to push her back.  Don't any of you see how she treated her husbands head once she realized a large portion of it was gone as she stands up, screaming" My God, they've shot Jack!"? She pushes his head forward, then, as she is starting to turn to stand up, she shoves his head away from her.


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She was in shock, John.

Exactly this is where starts and stops, Jackie was in shock. Right in front of her face from inches away she just saw her husband's head explode, in that instant she has no idea of what's happening, for all she knew maybe the threat was in the Limo, who knows?
But what is reasonably clear is that in a hi res digital copy of Zapruder, Jackie's hand slides and doesn't appear to grab anything.



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Offline John Iacoletti

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Re: Who is sitting up in Zapruder @Z456?
« Reply #47 on: January 16, 2018, 11:31:33 PM »
Exactly this is where starts and stops, Jackie was in shock. Right in front of her face from inches away she just saw her husband's head explode, in that instant she has no idea of what's happening, for all she knew maybe the threat was in the Limo, who knows?
But what is reasonably clear is that in a hi res digital copy of Zapruder, Jackie's hand slides and doesn't appear to grab anything.

It's amazing to me that everything that LNers expect to see is supposedly "clearly seen" in the Z film.

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Re: Who is sitting up in Zapruder @Z456?
« Reply #47 on: January 16, 2018, 11:31:33 PM »