Ct's firstly ask yourself, where does my theory go?

[Charles Collins]

I admire your efforts Charles....  I applaud your efforts....In a way I had hoped that you'd be brutally honest and acknowledge that no matter how you tried, in your experiments, you  could not reduce the distance between the two parallel lines to 3/16 of an inch.   The width of the bayonet lug is precisely .340" ( 8.61mm)  I originally stated that it was 5/16" which is close enough for this discussion....Because 3/16 =.312"     The difference between .312" and .340" =.28 ....or about the  thickness of a plastic credit card.

Honestly and frankly, if I had known the exact dimension when I made mock-up and cut the piece that represents the bayonet lug to that size, the lines on the lift would be the correct distance apart. No doubt about it.

[Walt Cakebread]

Honestly and frankly, if I had known the exact dimension when I made mock-up and cut the piece that represents the bayonet lug to that size, the lines on the lift would be the correct distance apart. No doubt about it.

Ok Charles.... we will never agree about what created the two parallel lines.  That's a shame because  IMO you cannot advance your understanding of the murder of JFK if you refuse to accept mathematically proven facts.

[Walt Cakebread]

I should have accepted Walt's challenge straight up instead of adding my twist in pursuit of my theory, which was based on assumptions that turned out to be false. Another lesson learned the hard way. So here I applied 2" wide shipping tape just as Walt's challenge suggested. This time I scribbled about half-way around the circumference to simulate the meaty part of the palm doing that as demonstrated earlier. Also I applied graphite from the pencil to the edges of the square dowel. I can believe that the machining process for making the actual bayonet lug could leave some roughness on those edges and that dirt and debris could cling to those edges more so than the smoother flat surfaces. It is not difficult to apply the tape such that it follows the contours of the bayonet lug. Here are a couple of photos:






And here is a photo of the tape applied to a sheet of printer paper:




A few comments about this experiment:

It is a crude experiment only done as a proof of concept.

The square wooden dowel was made when Walt stated it needed to be 3/8". I assumed both the width and the height were the same. I made it out of a scrap piece of MDF which was a little thicker than 3/8" (7/16") thinking for the experiment I would rather have it a little oversized than undersized. We later learned that the slot for the bayonet lug is only 5/16" wide. And I would think that the actual lug is slightly under that size. Therefore the square wooden dowel is significantly wider than the actual bayonet lug. And so the lines on the tape are a little further apart than what we see on images of the actual lift.

As can be seen in the photos, I manipulated the tape to stick to the vertical surface of the lug. After looking at the resulting lift, I believe that Day probably didn't do that and left that part of the tape a little loose and unstuck.

The shipping tape that I used is probably a bit different than the tape used back in 1963. But it is relatively thin for today's shipping tape (some of the tape available today is thicker and less pliable).

When I zoom an image of the actual 1963 lift such that the lines are about 5/16" apart, the width of the tape is about 2". And the rough experiment I did this morning indicates to me that the palm print (scribbling), the distance (if corrected as stated above) between the lines, and the width of the tape are reasonably proportional to each other when compared to the same proportions in the image of the actual lift.

Based on the distance between the lines and the palm print as seen in the images of the lift, it appears to me that the bayonet must have been partially in the palm, when the latent print was left on the bottom of the barrel, as depicted in the first of the photos I posted earlier suggesting how the barrel was held.

Based on this experiment, I believe that Day lifted some dirt/debris from the edges of the bayonet lug that form the previously mysterious lines.

Charles, I'm not askin you to reply to my question..... But I would like you to ask yourself.... 

Does your photo of the tape from your experiment resemble the palm print photo?    Is there even small resemblance ?

And here is a photo of the tape applied to a sheet of printer paper:

[Charles Collins]

Charles, I'm not askin you to reply to my question..... But I would like you to ask yourself.... 

Does your photo of the tape from your experiment resemble the palm print photo?    Is there even small resemblance ?

And here is a photo of the tape applied to a sheet of printer paper:

Walt, I have stated that it is a crude experiment and that the dimensions of the mock-up are not correct. Your earlier challenge essentially stated that it is impossible to lift a palm print from the area of the barrel where the print was reportedly found. And the reason that you stated was that bayonet lug would prevent the tape from being applied to that area. I have shown how the tape is able to be applied so that both the palm print and the lines can be lifted. That is all that I intended to show. I could make a more accurate mock-up, or use an actual barrel from the correct rifle (if I could find one) and perform the lift. It would then resemble the one that Day lifted, of that I have no doubt.

[Walt Cakebread]

Walt, I have stated that it is a crude experiment and that the dimensions of the mock-up are not correct. Your earlier challenge essentially stated that it is impossible to lift a palm print from the area of the barrel where the print was reportedly found. And the reason that you stated was that bayonet lug would prevent the tape from being applied to that area. I have shown how the tape is able to be applied so that both the palm print and the lines can be lifted. That is all that I intended to show. I could make a more accurate mock-up, or use an actual barrel from the correct rifle (if I could find one) and perform the lift. It would then resemble the one that Day lifted, of that I have no doubt.

To thine self be true......

[Jerry Organ]

[Charles Collins]

That’s interesting! Very interesting!

[Charles Collins]

Looking closer at the photo provided by Jerry, I see that the surfaces of the moveable bayonet lug that would contact the underside of the barrel form two parallel lines (see arrows in the photo below. This is due to that smaller radius curved surface of the lug. These parallel line surfaces appear to be somewhat rough to me, although the photo is not really clear enough to show this very well.



It appears to me that the contact between the moveable bayonet lug and the underside of the barrel could create some rough spots on the underside of the barrel (which would be in the form of two parallel lines). When Day needed to apply the tape to the underside of the barrel, all he needed to do was slide the bayonet lug away from the print (towards the muzzle end of the barrel. The rough spots (in the form of two parallel lines) could retain some of the fingerprint powder. And those rough spots would show up on the lift as two parallel lines.

Thank you Jerry, that was some very good detective work and research.