Ct's firstly ask yourself, where does my theory go?

[Robert Reeves]

More questions, why am I not surprised?

Attitude, and knowledge (or lack of knowledge) can be the determine factors in the answers to your questions….

You don't have the knowledge when asked to name reliable authoritative figures dictating to us plebs what is credible, or not.

And you also have a condescending manner. It's like you've decided conspiracy theorists in the JFK case have no right to debate certain aspects of the 'events'. All because the American state, and its actors, they gave us some really dumb scenario to all agree to is what really happened. I personally think the vigorous defenders of the Warren crap are patriots, patriots embarrassed at how corrupted and failed state they really are. Because all dominoes since 11 22 63 fall. And you can't handle the absolute spombleprofglidnoctobuns show that has ensued since. Darkened this world for all of us.

[Charles Collins]

You don't have the knowledge when asked to name reliable authoritative figures dictating to us plebs what is credible, or not.

And you also have a condescending manner. It's like you've decided conspiracy theorists in the JFK case have no right to debate certain aspects of the 'events'. All because the American state, and its actors, they gave us some really dumb scenario to all agree to is what really happened. I personally think the vigorous defenders of the Warren crap are patriots, patriots embarrassed at how corrupted and failed state they really are. Because all dominoes since 11 22 63 fall. And you can't handle the absolute spombleprofglidnoctobuns show that has ensued since. Darkened this world for all of us.

Another common trait of the paranoid conspiracy theorists, jumping to unsubstantiated conclusions.

[Richard Smith]

Time after time I see Kooky theories that go absolutely nowhere, are contradictory and as a narrative make zero logical sense. It seems like the only reason for these paranoid delusions is just so the Ct's can imagine a conspiracy so huge it's beyond their wildest, wettest dreams therefore no effort is made to link the enormity of their claims and oblivious bliss can persist.
Following are some basic questions addressing the above and some other questions which would have made setting up your patsy so much easier, because on one hand the conspirators were extremely clever and had a ton of accurate foresight with the ability to cover up their crimes for more than half a century and on the other hand the Government were so incompetent and their plan had so many holes that even the dumbest dumbasses around here could figure it out.

Why use or plant a Mauser when you want to set up your patsy with an Italian Carcano?
Why have a shooter in front when your Patsy is behind?
Why make up a potentially easily refuted bus trip to nowhere?
Why is Ruth Paine a possible conspirator when she said she never saw the rifle, never said Oswald spoke badly of Kennedy, never saw Oswald beat Marina and never saw the long package on the morning of the 22nd, well educated Ruth could have been the most powerful eyewitness of them all but she wasn't.
Why fake the Zapruder film when to the layman it shows a "back and to the left" motion?
Why use the Zapruder film to prove stuff when on the other hand you claim the Zapruder film is faked?
Why not have a dozen people who all saw Oswald in the sniper's nest window?
Why plant a pointy bullet on Connally's stretcher?
Why use a military rifle which is designed to injure, when you are clearly trying to kill your victim because Kennedy's back wound may have been survivable with a FMJ bullet whereas an expanding bullet might have ripped his head off?
Why use different type of bullets like an exploding bullet from the front, when you are trying to link the assassination to a single weapon?
Why invent an extensive paper trail of a rifle purchase which involved many innocent people and different companies when you could just fill out a coupon and mail it?
Why not have "Oswald" just buy a rifle and continue to buy ammo from a shop and have the shop owner remember him?
Why not have more people see the long brown package?
Why not have the Police say Oswald admitted owning the rifle, having his backyard photo taken, taking a long package to work and hating Kennedy?
...etc etc

JohnM

Great points John.  The objective of many CTers appears to be to cast doubt on Oswald's guilt by any means possible.  The narrative behind these pedantic nitpicking interpretations of the evidence don't have to add up to anything, make any sense, or even be
mutually consistent or supported by any evidence whatsoever.  Most CTers don't even consider the implications of their claims having validity.  The sole objective is to raise false doubt as to Oswald's guilt like a defense attorney.  They don't believe they have to prove anything or consider what did happen if Oswald is innocent or a "patsy."  In reality, however, if you are suggesting that alternative A didn't happen and by necessity something else like alternative B must have happened, then a good test of this theory is the evidence and plausibility of alternative B.  But because all the evidence points to Oswald's guilt, the plausibility of any alternative to Oswald as the assassin is absolutely ludicrous and has to be avoided at all costs fo avoid highlight the absurdity of their claims. 

[Alan Ford]

Time after time I see Kooky theories that go absolutely nowhere, are contradictory and as a narrative make zero logical sense. It seems like the only reason for these paranoid delusions is just so the Ct's can imagine a conspiracy so huge it's beyond their wildest, wettest dreams therefore no effort is made to link the enormity of their claims and oblivious bliss can persist.
Following are some basic questions addressing the above and some other questions which would have made setting up your patsy so much easier, because on one hand the conspirators were extremely clever and had a ton of accurate foresight with the ability to cover up their crimes for more than half a century and on the other hand the Government were so incompetent and their plan had so many holes that even the dumbest dumbasses around here could figure it out.

Why use or plant a Mauser when you want to set up your patsy with an Italian Carcano?
Why have a shooter in front when your Patsy is behind?
Why make up a potentially easily refuted bus trip to nowhere?
Why is Ruth Paine a possible conspirator when she said she never saw the rifle, never said Oswald spoke badly of Kennedy, never saw Oswald beat Marina and never saw the long package on the morning of the 22nd, well educated Ruth could have been the most powerful eyewitness of them all but she wasn't.
Why fake the Zapruder film when to the layman it shows a "back and to the left" motion?
Why use the Zapruder film to prove stuff when on the other hand you claim the Zapruder film is faked?
Why not have a dozen people who all saw Oswald in the sniper's nest window?
Why plant a pointy bullet on Connally's stretcher?
Why use a military rifle which is designed to injure, when you are clearly trying to kill your victim because Kennedy's back wound may have been survivable with a FMJ bullet whereas an expanding bullet might have ripped his head off?
Why use different type of bullets like an exploding bullet from the front, when you are trying to link the assassination to a single weapon?
Why invent an extensive paper trail of a rifle purchase which involved many innocent people and different companies when you could just fill out a coupon and mail it?
Why not have "Oswald" just buy a rifle and continue to buy ammo from a shop and have the shop owner remember him?
Why not have more people see the long brown package?
Why not have the Police say Oswald admitted owning the rifle, having his backyard photo taken, taking a long package to work and hating Kennedy?
...etc etc

JohnM

Why suppress Mr Oswald's claim that he "went outside to watch P. Parade"?

[John Mytton]

Why suppress Mr Oswald's claim that he "went outside to watch P. Parade"?

I told you before that Oswald was speaking in future tense, after Oswald ran into Baker and Truly on the 2nd floor Oswald made no secret that he went outside but if he was trying to create an alibi surely even you must agree he would have used past tense and explain "then I went outside and watched the P.Parade"

Besides we have Oswald himself on film no less, agreeing that he was inside which is totally corroborated by his interrogators.

Reporter:  "Were you in the building at the time?"
Oswald:  "Naturally, if I work in that building, yes sir."

And please don't try on your absurd notion that the outside steps were somehow inside because the outside steps as described by his workmates were outside.

Mr. LOVELADY - That's on the second floor; so, I started going to the domino room where I generally went in to set down and eat and nobody was there and I happened to look on the outside and Mr. Shelley was standing outside with Miss Sarah Stanton, I believe her name is, and I said, "Well, I'll go out there and talk with them, sit down and eat my lunch out there, set on the steps," so I went out there.

Mr. BALL - You were standing where?
Mr. SHELLEY - Just outside the glass doors there.
Mr. BALL - That would be on the top landing of the entrance?
Mr. SHELLEY - yes.

Mr. FRAZIER - No, sir; not right then I didn't. I say, you know, he was supposed to come by during our lunch hour so you don't get very many chances to see the President of the United States and being an old Texas boy, and [he] never having been down to Texas very much I went out there to see him and just like everybody else was, I was standing on the steps there and watched for the parade to come by and so I did and I stood there until he come by

Sarah Stanton who was on the steps described to the FBI that after hearing the shots "immediately went into the building".



JohnM

[Robert Reeves]

Another common trait of the paranoid conspiracy theorists, jumping to unsubstantiated conclusions.

Trust, but verify -- a common mantra in legal/journalist circles ... but seemingly disputed by 'Oswald did it' believers. It seems like skepticism of the official facts is not welcomed, especially to those that have already concluded it was only Oswald. This is quite an interesting stubborn mindset. This stubborn refusal to accept it was any other shooter or scenario than the one we're given to accept always pits you against the so called conspiracy theorist. To the point where you are unable to stop yourself name calling and smearing -- when you've been challenged to back up what you say.

When stating that we should trust authorities and their conclusions, I simply asked you to give a detailed example of authoritative figures or institutions involved in the solving of JFK's murder that we can thoroughly trust. You made the statement. And you cannot back it up.  You obviously can't (is this a sign that you don't believe what you publicly speak to be truth?}. You wouldn't resort to smearing someone that challenges your thinking if you were so sure!

So as you don't wanna play the game: I will give a little example of something I find odd about that occurred with the three tramps scenario. Nothing that solves the 'who done it' Just something odd, not quite right about what an 'authoritative figure', a cop, someone we should all be able to trust when they make statements, someone that might be giving false testimony. A cop that might have been lying to the public. But why? why on the day that JFK was murdered and he was the guy that supposedly took part in the arrest of 3 potential assassins?

So Marvin Wise, the lead cop in the 1st of seven 3 tramps photos (the alleged Ed Lansdale back to us flashing something from inside his coat). Marvin is accused by 'conspiracy theorists' of wearing an earpiece. Non-standard Dallas cop equipment. Or maybe cops that day were issued with earpieces? I don't think it's ever been substantiated. But if there were cops with non-standard issued earpieces on duty that day, and Wise was one of them, why did he deny he was wearing an earpiece? he got a letter from his doctor stating Wise had an ear infection. This is Marvin Wise that stated he knew Jack Ruby before he became a cop. He knew Ruby before the assassination. The he and his wife regularly danced at Ruby's club. He claimed Ruby was "pro-law-enforcement''. I guess he needed to substantiate why he had a relationship Jack Ruby. It did look odd.

But the photo of him walking along with the three tramps and our interesting alleged Ed Lansdale looking fellow appears to show Marvin Wise had something in his ear. Not the cotton wool?, as he claimed. See for yourself.



I'd say the 'conspiracy theorists' had a point. There does look to be more than cotton wool in Marvin Wise's  right ear.

Marvin Wise wrote down the three tramps names on a piece of paper and left the piece of paper in his locker for ''over a year''. in actual fact he stated he kept the pieces of paper containing the tramps names until 1966, when he moved to the vice squad. Wise stated that the Warren Commission never asked him about the three tramps arrested. That they weren't interested in knowing the names or any details, as they never asked him about them. They were interested in his relationship with Jack Ruby. Marvin Wise was assigned to the basement on the 24th. An admitted friend of Jack Ruby was in attendance and on duty when Jack Ruby somehow got into the basement and shot dead Oswald. Marvin Wise was then sent to Parkland Hospital to 'guard' the operating room containing the shooting victim of his friend, Jack Ruby.

The same cop who escorted 3 suspects across dealey plaza. Wrote down their names on a pieces of paper and just discarded them. No apparent professional curiosity about these 'hobo's and what they were doing behind the grassy knoll. And then only when around the time the JFK movie was released the Dallas police department suddenly found the (blank non-fingerprinted) arrest sheet's, supposedly identifying the three tramps, Wise then said, around the time, he also saw on the news a report about the three tramps, that's when Marvin Wise remembered the individual names of all three tramps!. It all came back to him. When questioned by the HSCA in the mid 70s: Wise said he destroyed the names of the three tramps, and he did not know the names of the three individuals. He couldn't remember even one of the three tramps names. Not one, no first names or surnames. Even though he could have gone a long way to possibly making himself look like a competent police officer doing his job on the day the president of the united states was assassinated and he supposedly helped arrest 3 strange suspicious people behind the grassy knoll hiding in box cars. It was lucky for him, though, that the helpful Dallas Police and the news report re-jogged his memory some years later!





The same cops that stated they patted down and searched the three tramps and found nothing suspicious. Although Wise said he found a single blade bone handle knife on the older tramp. He didn't think anything of it, Wise even put the tramps knife in his waistband. Wise said he felt embarrassed and that he wasting detectives time bringing these 'hobo's' to Sheriff Decker's office.

Did they even 'pat down' and thoroughly search the tramps? Officer Vaughn stated the tramps were give a good patting down for weapons. It was a windy day in Dallas and luckily for us the taller tramp revealed to us what appears to be a walkie talkie shaped object hidden down his sock or attached to his leg. Tricked those cops didn't he. Cops would never think of checking the legs of a potential murder suspect, would they?





It's all interesting, because what Officer Chambers (William Earl Chambers) remembered in a 1992 FBI interview (03/03/92). Chambers is the named arresting officer of the three tramps. His name appears as the arresting officer on the 3 Dallas police arrest sheets (found around the time of Stone's JFK movie release). He recalled an officer, 'Cpt OR. Jones' (sic) in the forgery division was assigned to firstly watch and then with questioning the 'hobo's' and finding ''which one shot the president''. And Chambers recalled a discussion to have the three hobo's hands gun powder tested. No mention of what prevented them. So there was some real cop work going on with these hobo's. Some cops actually did their job. I don't think there needed to be an entire police force to neglect their duties/detective work. Appears to have been just a few. A few cops on the scene at several important moments in the assassination and enabled the most important acts to go unchallenged. Seeing these 'Hobos' were actually, at one point, suspected of killing the president, you'd think there would have been some professional desire to really do there job and make sure they could rule out these odd guys seen (immediately after the shooting) running down the tracks and hiding in a train carriage.





Of course, something prevented the cops doing their work. There's a lot of strange anomalies. Like for instance why weren't these, at one point, potential murder suspects even finger printed? Their arrest sheets are incomplete and appear to have been produced to keep inquisitive minds quiet.

Gedney's arrest sheet is not completed and therefore not valid. Doyle & Abrams, the same, incomplete. No finger print's. No arrest number's/id's.

 

Just google Oswald's arrest sheet for-instance. If you want to see a Dallas Police arrest sheet without any loose ends. A thumb print. An arrest number & ID.

I don't think there's any paranoid conspiracy theorist jumping to conclusions about you. I think you just cannot back up your claims. And I can show some inconsistencies in the 'authorities' involved with providing the truth.

Oswald couldn't have had a more trustworthy accompanying 'guard; than officer Marvin Wise at Parkland hospital. Just like when Marvin Wise subjected the three tramps to a thoroughly, professional, police officer's job, when he escorted them across dealey plaza, He was so inquisitive, wanting to get down the bottom of who these guy's were. har har, that was sarcasm! He had changed his mind about them by the time he got to Decker's office. He felt embarrassed! He didn't want to waste police time, even though he had just apprehended 3 suspicious characters running and hiding in a train. Doesn't seem logical? why wouldn't he be eager to be hero. Be part of American folklore! he arrested potential dangerous suspects, one possibly the assassin! in the most famous murder case in American history! He sure as hell wouldn't have let his 'friend' Jack Ruby just go forth, unchallenged, and shoot Oswald, would he?

a lot of the documents can be found re three tramps at Dennis Morrissette's site. Or I can post them

[Jerry Organ]

the arrest of 3 potential assassins?

LOL!    Objectionable and amusing with the same stroke.

But the photo of him walking along with the three tramps and our interesting alleged Ed Lansdale looking fellow appears to show Marvin Wise had something in his ear. Not the cotton wool?, as he claimed. See for yourself.

I'd say the 'conspiracy theorists' had a point. There does look to be more than cotton wool in Marvin Wise's  right ear.

Well.. sure looks like a strand of cotton wool rolled up in a "tube" to better fit the ear canal. The 1977 HSCA Interview:

    "Wise stated that he had an ear infection from swimming and had
     cotton in it. He stated that it probably was hanging out because
     he had run a good distance and it may have come loose. He said
     that his doctor then is still his doctor now."


The cotton seems to have work loose as pictures of Wise, the policeman in the lead, taken on Houston show nothing projecting from his ear.

3 strange suspicious people behind the grassy knoll hiding in box cars.

LOL!  What drama!!!  Is La Scala in season?

It was a windy day in Dallas and luckily for us the taller tramp revealed to us what appears to be a walkie talkie shaped object hidden down his sock or attached to his leg. Tricked those cops didn't he. Cops would never think of checking the legs of a potential murder suspect, would they?

Looks like a bottle. Some hobos drank.

Hobo

Hobo

Hobo

It's all interesting, because what Officer Chambers (William Earl Chambers) remembered in a 1992 FBI interview (03/03/92). Chambers is the named arresting officer of the three tramps. His name appears as the arresting officer on the 3 Dallas police arrest sheets (found around the time of Stone's JFK movie release). He recalled an officer, 'Cpt OR. Jones' (sic) in the forgery division was assigned to firstly watch and then with questioning the 'hobo's' and finding ''which one shot the president''. And Chambers recalled a discussion to have the three hobo's hands gun powder tested. No mention of what prevented them.

Chambers didn't "arrest" the hobos in the Plaza, and, by 1992, was guessing or conflating things about the incident.

Seeing these 'Hobos' were actually, at one point, suspected of killing the president,

One 1992 interview of a policeman trying to reconstruct something thirty years ago. It must not have been that compelling originally as Chambers didn't do anything about it at the time. Probably the more vague a memory is, the more chance for embellishment. Is there another officer or report saying the tramps were asked which one killed the President?

you'd think there would have been some professional desire to really do there job and make sure they could rule out these odd guys seen (immediately after the shooting) running down the tracks and hiding in a train carriage.

The officers who escorted the hobos said they (the officers) did quite a bit of activity before being told to go see Bowers. Seems at least past one o'clock. I imagine Bowers had it in for people "hopping" freights and wanted to exploit the police presence to "teach" the tramps a lesson. Some railroads had "bulls" who beat up tramps on railroad property.

Like for instance why weren't these, at one point, potential murder suspects even finger printed?

Because they weren't murder suspects. They were detained for questioning.

Their arrest sheets are incomplete and appear to have been produced to keep inquisitive minds quiet.

A child can be inquisitive.

Gedney's arrest sheet is not completed and therefore not valid. Doyle & Abrams, the same, incomplete. No finger print's. No arrest number's/id's.

Just google Oswald's arrest sheet for-instance. If you want to see a Dallas Police arrest sheet without any loose ends. A thumb print. An arrest number & ID.

Wise said the Tramp reports were "dummy sheets" (arrest forms used for another purpose) and that only those booked were thumb-printed. The Tramps weren't arrested but were detained all weekend in case of questioning.

[Robert Reeves]

The cotton seems to have work loose as pictures of Wise, the policeman in the lead, taken on Houston show nothing projecting from his ear.

An easy to make error on your part. The cop now in front, in the lead, is actually Billy Bass (in this particular photo you've posted). Who was at the rear in the first picture, the picture showing Wise with the strange earpiece. See, they've changed a bit, Marvin Wise has gone from the frame. But nice try.

That's what you get when all you want to do is just debunk everything, for the sake of it.



Billy Bass has a whistle or something near the pistol on his right hip. And more details on his shirt on the right chest.