Ct's firstly ask yourself, where does my theory go?

[Walt Cakebread]

I think it would have to be 1.5"-wide tape, which means the card is odd-sized.

Would you please measure the circumference of the barrel? Could Day have been using 2"-wide tape?

I think it would have to be 1.5"-wide tape, which means the card is odd-sized.

!.5 inch wide tape would have wrapped 3/4 ( 75% ) of the way around the 2.023 inch metal barrel
   

Would you please measure the circumference of the barrel? Could Day have been using 2"-wide tape?

Since the circumference of the barrel is 2.023 inches...( 2 inches)....The diameter is .625 inches....  IOW   2 inch wide tape would have wrapped completely around the metal barrel.    Therefore the tape was probably not 2 inches wide...

How about 1 inch wide tape?.....   Very simple....the barrel is 2 inches in circumference so the 1" tape would wrap half way around the barrel.....   Still not what we see in CE 639......


Now lets try it with the wooden foregrip....which is half round....The bottom portion is round and the diameter is 1.32 inches, which means if there was an upper portion the circumference would be 4.14 inches.....But we can ignore the circumference....and work with the diameter ( 1.32 ") of the round lower portion of the fore grip.....1.32"( Half circumference (4.14")= 2.07 inches)

A one  inch wide tape would wrap about 1/4 way around the wooden forestock ...( 4.14 inch circ) . and this works out very nicely when compared to the photo of the "palm print" as seen in CE 639....

Soooo.....It would appear that the so called palm print was lifted from the WOODEN FOREGRIP of the carcano...

And that is verified by the photo it's self which records the bayonet slot that is cut into the wooden foregrip.

[Jerry Organ]

I think it would have to be 1.5"-wide tape, which means the card is odd-sized.

!.5 inch wide tape would have wrapped 3/4 ( 75% ) of the way around the 2.023 inch metal barrel
   

Would you please measure the circumference of the barrel? Could Day have been using 2"-wide tape?

Since the circumference of the barrel is 2.023 inches...( 2 inches)....The diameter is .625 inches....  IOW   2 inch wide tape would have wrapped completely around the metal barrel.    Therefore the tape was probably not 2 inches wide...

Let's see. Two-inch lifting tape would fit, therefore, by your logic, it probably wouldn't?

    "He [Lt. Carl Day] then placed a strip of 2" scotch tape over
     the developed print and rubbed it down before finally lifting
     the tape containing the print off and placed it on a card.
     He said he then compared the lift to Oswald's palm print card
     and was certain that it was Oswald’s."

          — First Day Evidence (1993 book by Gary Savage)

I would think Day would want as much information off that barrel as his most-appropriate-width lifting tape would give him.

How about 1 inch wide tape?.....   Very simple....the barrel is 2 inches in circumference so the 1" tape would wrap half way around the barrel.....   Still not what we see in CE 639......

Now lets try it with the wooden foregrip....which is half round....The bottom portion is round and the diameter is 1.32 inches, which means if there was an upper portion the circumference would be 4.14 inches.....But we can ignore the circumference....and work with the diameter ( 1.32 ") of the round lower portion of the fore grip.....1.32"( Half circumference (4.14")= 2.07 inches)

A one  inch wide tape would wrap about 1/4 way around the wooden forestock ...( 4.14 inch circ) . and this works out very nicely when compared to the photo of the "palm print" as seen in CE 639....

Soooo.....It would appear that the so called palm print was lifted from the WOODEN FOREGRIP of the carcano...

The print would be about 3/4" in dimension, whereas Latonia in CE 638 circled an area that's two inches.

And that is verified by the photo it's self which records the bayonet slot that is cut into the wooden foregrip.

But if Carl Day correctly remembered he used two-inch lifting tape, then the linear impression is 1/4" across (too wide for a bayonet slot; just right for the bayonet lock on the underside of the barrel).

[Walt Cakebread]

Let's see. Two-inch lifting tape would fit, therefore, by your logic, it probably wouldn't?

    "He [Lt. Carl Day] then placed a strip of 2" scotch tape over
     the developed print and rubbed it down before finally lifting
     the tape containing the print off and placed it on a card.
     He said he then compared the lift to Oswald's palm print card
     and was certain that it was Oswald’s."

          — First Day Evidence (1993 book by Gary Savage)

I would think Day would want as much information off that barrel as his most-appropriate-width lifting tape would give him.

The print would be about 3/4" in dimension, whereas Latonia in CE 638 circled an area that's two inches.



But if Carl Day correctly remembered he used two-inch lifting tape, then the linear impression is 1/4" across (too wide for a bayonet slot; just right for the bayonet lock on the underside of the barrel).

Now we're getting to the basics.....

Let's see. Two-inch lifting tape would fit, therefore, by your logic, it probably wouldn't?

The DIAMETER of the barrel is .625 inches....and the CIRCUMFERENCE is 1.96 ( 2 inches) inches....  So the entire distance around the metal barrel is 2 inches....  If you used two inch tape it would go all the way around the barrel ( which is ridiculous) because according to Day the print was on the bottom ( first he said it was on the side of the barrel but he changed his mind about that) the print covered just the area on the width of the tape  ....It sure as hell didn't encircle the entire 2 inch circumference of the barrel.

If you think differently...Then please explain how a human could wrap his palm entirely around a  5/8" (.625") diameter tube.....

"He [Lt. Carl Day] then placed a strip of 2" scotch tape over
     the developed print and rubbed it down before finally lifting
     the tape containing the print off and placed it on a card.

OK ....If Day was using two inch wide tape....then the card would have been 7 inches wide.....because we can see the edges of the tape in the photo of the "palm print" (CE 639) and the card is 3.5 times larger than the tape .....That would make the length of the card 11.5"....Do you believe the card was 7" X 11.5" ??.....


if Carl Day correctly remembered he used two-inch lifting tape, then the linear impression is 1/4" across (too wide for a bayonet slot; just right for the bayonet lock on the underside of the barrel).

Yes, the bayonet slot is actually ( measured) about 3/16 of an inch across....
And the rear extension of the bayonet lug is .331" ( measured) across  ...It is NOT 1/4 inch!.....

But the real kick in the pants for your argument is the FACT that the lug extends down beneath the round metal barrel about 3/8 of an inch   ....This 3/8 would prevent the lifting tape from coming into contact with the metal  barrel.   So that shoots your theory down.......

PS.... I'm truly enjoying this exchange.... Please keep trying.....

[Paul May]

In practically every one of your thousands of posts you seem to implicate someone new,

Huh??.....  You really are confused aren't you, Chum......  For years I've stood on my belief that Lyin Bastard Johnson, and J Edna Hoover are the pinnacle of the plot.     There's nobody new..... THEY CONTROLLED the "investigation"  ........  and orchestrated the tale presented to us in the Warren Report.   Some stupid, gutless, suckers  like yourself actually believe that mountain of BS, is the truth.

Governments are common targets for conspiracy theories. They offer someone tangible to blame for unfortunate events, are often disliked and rarely give immediate, comprehensive or definitive answers. Even when government officials respond with emphatic denials, distrust is common.

A common rhetorical device of conspiracy theorists ... is to advance speculations and then criticize the authorities for not definitively refuting them. They also rely on an inherently implausible claim of a coverup by government agencies that don't really have a very good record of covering things up.

[Jerry Organ]

Now we're getting to the basics.....

Let's see. Two-inch lifting tape would fit, therefore, by your logic, it probably wouldn't?

The DIAMETER of the barrel is .625 inches....and the CIRCUMFERENCE is 1.96 ( 2 inches) inches.... 

I have a manufactured roll of 2" packing tape and it's 1/8" short of 2".

So the entire distance around the metal barrel is 2 inches....  If you used two inch tape it would go all the way around the barrel ( which is ridiculous) because according to Day the print was on the bottom ( first he said it was on the side of the barrel but he changed his mind about that) the print covered just the area on the width of the tape  ....It sure as hell didn't encircle the entire 2 inch circumference of the barrel.

The print covers about 3/4 of the tape. I would think that Day would secure the tape in an area where the print wasn't, then slowly roll it over the area of the print. It would be prudent to utilize the full circumference with two-inch tape.

If you think differently...Then please explain how a human could wrap his palm entirely around a  5/8" (.625") diameter tube.....

The fleshy part of the palm (little-finger side) would conform to the shape of the barrel.

"He [Lt. Carl Day] then placed a strip of 2" scotch tape over
     the developed print and rubbed it down before finally lifting
     the tape containing the print off and placed it on a card.

OK ....If Day was using two inch wide tape....then the card would have been 7 inches wide.....because we can see the edges of the tape in the photo of the "palm print" (CE 639) and the card is 3.5 times larger than the tape .....That would make the length of the card 11.5"....Do you believe the card was 7" X 11.5" ??.....

More a ratio of 3:1. If the tape is 2", the card would be 6" x 9 5/8"

if Carl Day correctly remembered he used two-inch lifting tape, then the linear impression is 1/4" across (too wide for a bayonet slot; just right for the bayonet lock on the underside of the barrel).

Yes, the bayonet slot is actually ( measured) about 3/16 of an inch across....
And the rear extension of the bayonet lug is .331" ( measured) across  ...It is NOT 1/4 inch!.....

I was going by what you said earlier ...

The bayonet lug is securely clamped to the metal barrel and the bayonet lug has a  heavy rectangular extension ( 1/4 " across) that extends to the rear of the lug.

BTW, the linear impression is 1/4" on the 5 X 8 card, and .31" on the 6 X 9 5/8 card. Might even be .33" on the actual car.

But the real kick in the pants for your argument is the FACT that the lug extends down beneath the round metal barrel about 3/8 of an inch   ....This 3/8 would prevent the lifting tape from coming into contact with the metal  barrel.   So that shoots your theory down.......

No, I earlier suggested the linear impression could have been "tape edges", meaning a groove had been cut in the lifting tape. It sounds like Day would have to do that, and he probably did it many times before as not all fingerprints are on flat surfaces and some may be near projections.

PS.... I'm truly enjoying this exchange.... Please keep trying.....

I too am enjoying it.   

• Carl Day lifted the palmprint off the barrel, recording doing so on the mounting card
• The FBI confirmed that Day's palmprint life had come off the C2766 rifle barrel
• Day testified under oath he lifted the palmprint off the barrel on November 22nd
• Day told Gary Savage and "Rusty" Livingston he used 2" tape
• The lift has no woodgrain pattern as if it had come off the wood forestock
• There is no 3 X 5 card; Walt Fab

[Walt Cakebread]

I have a manufactured roll of 2" packing tape and it's 1/8" short of 2".

The print covers about 3/4 of the tape. I would think that Day would secure the tape in an area where the print wasn't, then slowly roll it over the area of the print. It would be prudent to utilize the full circumference with two-inch tape.



The fleshy part of the palm (little-finger side) would conform to the shape of the barrel.



I too am enjoying it.   

• Carl Day lifted the palmprint off the barrel, recording doing so on the mounting card
• The FBI confirmed that Day's palmprint life had come off the C2766 rifle barrel
• Day testified under oath he lifted the palmprint off the barrel on November 22nd
• Day told Gary Savage and "Rusty" Livingston he used 2" tape
• The lift has no woodgrain pattern as if it had come off the wood forestock
• There is no 3 X 5 card; Walt Fab

The fleshy part of the palm (little-finger side) would conform to the shape of the barrel.

So now you're saying that the print SURROUNDED the entire circumference of the barrel...... Then why didn't Day say that he saw a print that wrapped all the way around the barrel?


The lift has no woodgrain pattern as if it had come off the wood forestock..

  Ahhh... that takes me back to page one.....Many many years ago when  I first saw the photo of the "palm print "  (CE 639) i saw the wood grain  on the photo.....At that time ( 30  years ago ) the LNers explained that wood grain seen in the photo, as having been transferred to the metal barrel and that's why the wood grain appears in the photo.    At that time I didn't know that the wooden forestock is not in tight contact with the metal barrel as it is on many rifles.   So I accepted that as a plausible explanation.     

And thank you for printing my favorite cartoon character....  Snoopy, always brings chuckles....


Now then..... can we agree on the width of the tape and the size of the card it's stuck to??

[Jerry Organ]

The fleshy part of the palm (little-finger side) would conform to the shape of the barrel.

So now you're saying that the print SURROUNDED the entire circumference of the barrel...... Then why didn't Day say that he saw a print that wrapped all the way around the barrel?

The fleshy part of the palm would conform to whatever area of the barrel was appropriate to its size. You're twisting those words into the palm contorting to fully surround the barrel. Cheap semantics.

The lift has no woodgrain pattern as if it had come off the wood forestock..

  Ahhh... that takes me back to page one.....Many many years ago when  I first saw the photo of the "palm print "  (CE 639) i saw the wood grain  on the photo.....At that time ( 30  years ago ) the LNers explained that wood grain seen in the photo, as having been transferred to the metal barrel and that's why the wood grain appears in the photo.    At that time I didn't know that the wooden forestock is not in tight contact with the metal barrel as it is on many rifles.   So I accepted that as a plausible explanation.     

And thank you for printing my favorite cartoon character....  Snoopy, always brings chuckles....

Now then..... can we agree on the width of the tape and the size of the card it's stuck to??

I'm leaning towards Day's statement that the lifting tape was 2". Do you believe the tape is one-inch and stuck on a 3" X 5" index card?

[Walt Cakebread]

The fleshy part of the palm would conform to whatever area of the barrel was appropriate to its size. You're twisting those words into the palm contorting to fully surround the barrel. Cheap semantics.

I'm leaning towards Day's statement that the lifting tape was 2". Do you believe the tape is one-inch and stuck on a 3" X 5" index card?

The fleshy part of the palm would conform to whatever area of the barrel was appropriate to its size. You're twisting those words into the palm contorting to fully surround the barrel. Cheap semantics.

You believe the tape was 2 inches wide.....But, If that were the truth, then the tape would have completely surrounded the circumference ( 2.03") of the metal barrel.    And I pointed out that the LNers ( yourself included) have always believed Day's tale that he spotted a print on the SIDE of the barrel which prompted him to remove the wooden forestock, and then he saw the print ON THE BOTTOM of the metal barrel.......according to Day's tale .... The print did not completely surround the metal barrel .....   But the photo of the print (CE639) "palm print" shows that the print completely transects the tape on the card....So if the tape was two inches wide and the print completely covers the tape from side to side then the print would have had to been completely around the 2 inch circumference of the metal barrel.     

Do you still want to maintain that the tape was 2 inches wide?

Do you believe the tape is one-inch and stuck on a 3" X 5" index card?

No, this discussion has convinced me that the card had to have been bigger than 3" X 5" ..... Probably 5" X  8".....

This is the reason that I'm truly enjoying this discussion......   I believe that I'm making progress and in the end you're going to be compelled to admit that detective Day's tale is pure BS....and the print was actually lifted from the wooden forestock and it was nothing but an unidentifiable smudge that the "experts" ( liars ) transformed into Lee Oswald's palm print.