Ct's firstly ask yourself, where does my theory go?

[Charles Collins]

Charles .... You're altering the "evidence".    Jerry claims that the two parallel lines that are clearly visible on the right hand side of the photo were made by the 3/8" bayonet lug that protruded from the bottom of the barrel ....therefore the tape must extend past the bayonet lug.... And your photo clearly shows that if you had placed the tape on top of the lug ( represented by the 3/8  wooden block that you've glued to the "barrel ) the tape would not have made contact with the pencil scribbling.....
  PS  Jerry understood the problem and his solution was " Detective Day cut a slot in the tape" to allow the rectangular bayonet lug to lie flat against the barrel....  Of course there isn't an iota evidence that Day "cut a slot in the tape", but desperation creates weird solutions....
You're wasting your time if you're not going to stick with the evidence presented....    l

While I have high regard for Jerry’s research, and we are usually in general agreement with our opinions, I have to respectfully disagree with that one. The lines are not parallel, they are tapered like the slot in the wood that mates with the bottom of the barrel. It is my opinion that after many years of contact of the two dissimilar materials and who knows what kind of conditions and treatment, that the edges of the slot caused the bottom of the barrel to oxidize, etc. right along the edges. And that roughness on the bottom of the metal barrel was what caused the lines in the lift.

I didn’t waste any time, I didn’t alter any evidence. (What the heck makes you think Jerry’s opinion is evidence?) I didn’t expect you to change your tune either. You tend to jump to nutty conclusions without any basis except your opinions. I think you are so confused that you must think your opinions are evidence.

[Walt Cakebread]

While I have high regard for Jerry’s research, and we are usually in general agreement with our opinions, I have to respectfully disagree with that one. The lines are not parallel, they are tapered like the slot in the wood that mates with the bottom of the barrel. It is my opinion that after many years of contact of the two dissimilar materials and who knows what kind of conditions and treatment, that the edges of the slot caused the bottom of the barrel to oxidize, etc. right along the edges. And that roughness on the bottom of the metal barrel was what caused the lines in the lift.

I didn’t waste any time, I didn’t alter any evidence. (What the heck makes you think Jerry’s opinion is evidence?) I didn’t expect you to change your tune either. You tend to jump to nutty conclusions without any basis except your opinions. I think you are so confused that you must think your opinions are evidence.

The lines are not parallel, they are tapered like the slot in the wood that mates with the bottom of the barrel.

The lines that are clearly visible on the right of the index card most certainly are parallel.....I'm looking at a carcano foregrip as I type this.....

The bayonet blade slot that was cut into the wood was apparently made by a tool similar to a small circular saw blade about 3/16 of an inch thick, with a diameter of about 1/2 inch ( the depth of the slot ) ....

The distance between the parallel lines in the photo is 3/16 "  ( the same as the bayonet slot in the wooden foregrip.)

[John Mytton]

You're wasting your time if you're not going to stick with the evidence presented....    l

It's easy sitting on the sidelines and playing Monday morning quarterback, but don't you have half a dozen Carcano's laying around, why don't you demonstrate your ability to be a neutral witness and do the above demonstration yourself, and finally you may gain some credibility?

JohnM

[Charles Collins]

The lines are not parallel, they are tapered like the slot in the wood that mates with the bottom of the barrel.

The lines that are clearly visible on the right of the index card most certainly are parallel.....I'm looking at a carcano foregrip as I type this.....

The bayonet blade slot that was cut into the wood was apparently made by a tool similar to a small circular saw blade about 3/16 of an inch thick, with a diameter of about 1/2 inch ( the depth of the slot ) ....

The distance between the parallel lines in the photo is 3/16 "  ( the same as the bayonet slot in the wooden foregrip.)

The lines on the image of the lift appear slightly tapered to me. The lines are not distinct enough or straight enough to get a good measurement. My caliper says that they are closer to parallel than they appear to my eye. Perhaps that is due to the astigmatism that I have. Since you have an actual example, I will concede the point. It makes no difference anyway. I have seen another photo of the slot in the wood. And if I remember correctly the slot in the wood extends further than the end of the metal that slides into it. Therefore I believe that the edges of the slot could have left the ragged lines on the bottom of the barrel as I previously stated. If the metal had left those lines, I believe that they would have been more distinct and less ragged (straighter).

[Charles Collins]

Whatever that linear feature is, it's probably not the bayonet lug. It might be that gunpowder residue, dirt and/or cleaning oil seeped in around the bayonet lug and left two lines of accumulation.

Thanks Jerry, that diagram, if I understand it correctly, indicates that the palm print begins approximately 2” from the end of the tape. That would mean that instead of the lug being partially inside the palm (as in my demonstration) the lug would be just above the palm. And the grip was probably pretty much all on the barrel below the lug. This appears to clarify that aspect for me.

And I agree about the residue. The photo I saw showed the slot in the wooden fore-stock extending past the lug. If Walt is correct about a circular saw blade cutting the slot, it would need to be over cut like that to account for the curvature of the blade at the end of the slot. Hopefully Walt can let us know one way or another if this is true on his rifle.

[Walt Cakebread]

Whatever that linear feature is, it's probably not the bayonet lug. It might be that gunpowder residue, dirt and/or cleaning oil seeped in around the bayonet lug and left two lines of accumulation.

Whatever that linear feature is, it's probably not the bayonet lug. It might be that gunpowder residue, dirt and/or cleaning oil seeped in around the bayonet lug and left two lines of accumulation.

You're right, the two parallel lines seen at the right hand side of the "palm print" photo ( CE 639) were not created by the bayonet lug.  That lug is 3/8 " wide ....  and the two parallel lines are 3/16" apart....   Which just happens to be the width of the bayonet slot that is cut into the wooden foregrip ( The slot allows the bayonet blade to be folded back when the bayonet wasn't required )

 cleaning oil seeped in around the bayonet lug and left two lines of accumulation.   

So the 3/8" wide bayonet lug allowed "cleaning oil" to seep in and form two straight lines that are 3/16"apart??  Wow!!  What a wild and ridiculous idea!     BTW .... What's cleaning oil?

Can you explain how "gun powder residue" would accumulate under the wooden foregrip about 9 inches to the rear of the muzzle??     

[Walt Cakebread]

It's easy sitting on the sidelines and playing Monday morning quarterback, but don't you have half a dozen Carcano's laying around, why don't you demonstrate your ability to be a neutral witness and do the above demonstration yourself, and finally you may gain some credibility?

JohnM

do the above demonstration yourself,

What demonstration?

[Walt Cakebread]

While I have high regard for Jerry’s research, and we are usually in general agreement with our opinions, I have to respectfully disagree with that one. The lines are not parallel, they are tapered like the slot in the wood that mates with the bottom of the barrel. It is my opinion that after many years of contact of the two dissimilar materials and who knows what kind of conditions and treatment, that the edges of the slot caused the bottom of the barrel to oxidize, etc. right along the edges. And that roughness on the bottom of the metal barrel was what caused the lines in the lift.

I didn’t waste any time, I didn’t alter any evidence. (What the heck makes you think Jerry’s opinion is evidence?) I didn’t expect you to change your tune either. You tend to jump to nutty conclusions without any basis except your opinions. I think you are so confused that you must think your opinions are evidence.

 You tend to jump to nutty conclusions without any basis except your opinions. I think you are so confused that you must think your opinions are evidence.

Be specific.....  In reference to the current subject ( the palm print card )  WHAT do you believe is a "nutty conclusion".....

The size of the card?....    Yes, my original statement that the card's dimensions were 3" X 5"  was incorrect.   This discussion has opened my eyes to the fact that the card could not have been 3 X 5.....So I'm indebted to you for enlightening to that fact.

What is your conclusion about the dimensions of that card, and the width of the tape?