Ct's firstly ask yourself, where does my theory go?

[John Mytton]

I think if we had a Carcano M91/38 Short Rifle in front of us, Charles or I would have noticed the bayonet lug moved a bit when the bolt retaining it was pulled through it. It's something else entirely when someone knows the lug is moveable, are in a "discussion" about the lug and keeps that tidbit to himself.

You hit the nail on the head and this highlights the main different between a LNer and a CT, a LNer wants all the facts so as to create a coherent whole and will go where ever the evidence leads, whereas CT's will hide or manipulate the facts and basically will sink to any depth to erroneously win an argument, but at what cost?

JohnM

[Charles Collins]

I ran across this photo which shows more clearly that the two edges which contact the underside of the barrel are rough. It appears to me that there are teeth intentionally made into the edges. These teeth are slanted such that they would grip the underside of the barrel when the lug is pushed back towards the bolt, and would release very easily when it is pushed toward the muzzle end of the barrel. Also, take another look at the two lines on the lift done by Day. They look to me like impressions left on the underside of the barrel by similar teeth could have formed them. (Where's a forensic dentist when we need one?   )




At any rate, this seals the deal for me. There is no mystery of the two lines anymore for me.

[Walt Cakebread]

I ran across this photo which shows more clearly that the two edges which contact the underside of the barrel are rough. It appears to me that there are teeth intentionally made into the edges. These teeth are slanted such that they would grip the underside of the barrel when the lug is pushed back towards the bolt, and would release very easily when it is pushed toward the muzzle end of the barrel. Also, take another look at the two lines on the lift done by Day. They look to me like impressions left on the underside of the barrel by similar teeth could have formed them. (Where's a forensic dentist when we need one?   )




At any rate, this seals the deal for me. There is no mystery of the two lines anymore for me.

What is the distance between the forward edge ( toward the muzzle)  of the  "palm print" and the rear ( toward the trigger housing ) of the two parallel lines?   

[Charles Collins]

What is the distance between the forward edge ( toward the muzzle)  of the  "palm print" and the rear ( toward the trigger housing ) of the two parallel lines?

That is difficult to say with any precision. A rough estimate, based on how my eyes see it, would be in the neighborhood of 1”. Why do you ask?

[Walt Cakebread]

That is difficult to say with any precision. A rough estimate, based on how my eyes see it, would be in the neighborhood of 1”. Why do you ask?

I would like a specific distance.....From the forward edge of the "palm print to the rear of the bayonet lug..... The distance doesn't need to be precise. Plus or minus 1/8 inch will do........

In your above estimate the distance would be 7/8 " ---- 1 1/8 "

[Charles Collins]

I would like a specific distance.....From the forward edge of the "palm print to the rear of the bayonet lug..... The distance doesn't need to be precise. Plus or minus 1/8 inch will do........

In your above estimate the distance would be 7/8 " ---- 1 1/8 "

I couldn’t say for sure that my estimate is even that precise. It’s just a rough estimate. That is the best I can do at this time.

[Walt Cakebread]

I couldn’t say for sure that my estimate is even that precise. It’s just a rough estimate. That is the best I can do at this time.

Jerry posted.......

The print would be about 3/4" in dimension, whereas Latonia in CE 638 circled an area that's two inches.




You've said that detective Day spotted a print on the side of the barrel about 3 inches to the rear of the front of the wooden stock.   Of course we can assume that this three inches would be the middle of the 3/4 inch print. ( IOW the front of the print would be about 3/8 of an inch forward of that mid point , Or about 2 5/8 inches from the front of the wooden stock .

So now we have the front of the print about 2 5/8" from the front of the wooden stock.   And we have the rear of the bayonet lug about 3/4 inch to the rear of the front of the wooden stock ----which means that there was a gap between the front of the "palm "print and the rear of the bayonet lug of---- 1 3/4  inches. 
 Since you believe that the tape used to lift the print was 1 1/2 inches wide ......the distance from the back of the lug to the print should be roughly the same as the width of the tape in the palm print photo.    Is that distance  the same as the width of the tape?? 

In your above estimate the distance would be 7/8 " ---- 1 1/8 "

[Jerry Organ]

Jerry posted.......

The print would be about 3/4" in dimension, whereas Latonia in CE 638 circled an area that's two inches.

The reference to the print being 3/4" was in regards to your theory that the lifting tape was 1".

You've said that detective Day spotted a print on the side of the barrel about 3 inches to the rear of the front of the wooden stock.   Of course we can assume that this three inches would be the middle of the 3/4 inch print. ( IOW the front of the print would be about 3/8 of an inch forward of that mid point , Or about 2 5/8 inches from the front of the wooden stock .

So now we have the front of the print about 2 5/8" from the front of the wooden stock.   And we have the rear of the bayonet lug about 3/4 inch to the rear of the front of the wooden stock ----which means that there was a gap between the front of the "palm "print and the rear of the bayonet lug of---- 1 3/4  inches. 
 Since you believe that the tape used to lift the print was 1 1/2 inches wide ......the distance from the back of the lug to the print should be roughly the same as the width of the tape in the palm print photo.    Is that distance  the same as the width of the tape?? 

In your above estimate the distance would be 7/8 " ---- 1 1/8 "

Because Walt got a basic fact wrong, he's gone off on a wild tangent. The man doesn't understand ...

• Reading comprehension
• Rudimentary mathematics
• The M81/38 Carcano Short Rifle
• Perspective and parallax
• Proportion and scale