Does Hiding a Rifle You Plan On Leaving Anyway Really Make Sense?

[Walt Cakebread]

What more do you want from Kaiser? Film of Oswald using the clipboard or time-travel so you can see yourself?

It's reasonable proof for reasonable people to evaluate. You're not reasonable.

Do you have proof for an alternative explanation that's on the same level as Kaiser?

That is, did someone else testify that they made the board, wrote Kaiser's name on it and used it, or saw it being used by someone else?

Sounds like a weak, and desperate argument....   We have no way of knowing if Kaiser had some ulterior motive for his statements....    Maybe he just wanted his 15 minutes of fame....

[Walt Cakebread]

One post--the one in question, between the west wall and west service elevator--has its south side13 feet from the north wall. All the rest of the posts to the east of this one post shows the posts centered on 13 feet. So are we going to take your word for one post being out of alignment with all the other posts? Maybe somebody should contact the Museum to measure the distance?



The interior column on the west wall is centered on 13 feet. So a few feet for the row of boxes that were to the north of the rifle in the Crime Lab photos. The north side of Pallet Group "A" must be some five feet south of the pillar, or about 18-19 feet from the north wall.

I can't believe that Uh-ho Beck and you believe the rifle was beneath the pallet and that Weitzman was literally lying on the floor with his face on that dirty oily floor. Do you both also believe that Boone, Weitzman and Studebaker lied that the rifle location was undisturbed before the taking of the in situ photos?

On page 142 of the WR there is a WC exhibit no. 2707, which shows a "scale model view" of the sixth floor and a view of the support columns for the 6th floor ceiling and the 7th floor......

Since Studebaker's map reveals that the support columns are spaced 13 feet apart, and we can see that the first column to the south of the north wall is three feet south of the stairs going down to the 5th floor.  ( see page 142)  so the next E/W row of support columns are 26 feet from the north wall......  The tip of the arrow that indicates where the rifle was found is at 19 feet from the north wall, or about 6 feet south of the column that was 13 feet from the north wall.  Studebaker measured the distance from the north wall to the rifle and recorded that distance as 15' 4 " .....That's 2 feet 4 inches south of the first column.

The WC exhibit 2707 apparently isn't as accurate as Studebaker's map, but it serves very well to show that the rifle was not at the location indicated in the fake DPD in situ photo......

[Walt Cakebread]

The way the arrows were placed on that exhibit, I would have to describe as generalized and approximate.

I have the Studebaker Map showing the down-stairway beginning 10' 8" from the north wall. The row of columns being centered on 13' means the south face of the column is 13' 4.75" from the north wall (assuming the notation of "9 1/2" square" is correct). This is slightly less than two feet north of where the rifle was found.

Looking west

Exhibit marked by officer pointing to rifle location

Looking east (Rifle discovery opening out of frame to camera-right)

Now we simply have to see if any boxes were to the south of the south side of the column (the column displays a "No Smoking" sign). The Crime Lab photos show a row of boxes between the rifle location and the back-stairs; this is the same row of boxes that go east-to-west, a portion of which abuts the south face of the column.

If that box abutting the south side of the column (the box has a horizontal piece of tape running along its length) is, say, 18 1/4" long, then the south-facing end of that box is 14' 11" (now we're down to five inches north of where the rifle was found). But see the south ends of the boxes between the box abutting the column and the boxes against the west wall? Some jut towards the south a bit and the row of boxes overall progressively goes a bit southward. Enough such that where the boxes that were to the north of the Carcano would be about 15' 4".

The row of columns being centered on 13'

Jerry, open your eyes and LOOK at Studebaker' map..... The Vertical support columns are NOT centered on 13 feet....The south side of the columns are 13 feet from the north wall... ( the north side of the column is 12 foot 2 inches from the wall)   There are TWO feet from the south side of the support column and the rifle is depicted as being just a few inches south of the 15 foot line ( 15' 4"  )

The DPD in situ photo depicts the rifle as being inches south of the south edge of the column.....

[Richard Smith]

Question for you Smart guy......  Has it been established that nobody other than Lee Oswald could have placed that clipboard where it was found.      IOW.....  Do you have solid PROOF that Lee Oswald was the only person  who could have placed that clip board there??

The old impossible standard of proof.  Absent a time machine, we couldn't prove any fact in human history if the standard is that we must somehow exclude EVERY other alternative possibility.  No matter how baseless or unsupported by facts and common sense.  You couldn't prove that Lincoln delivered the Gettysburg address if someone could raise doubt just by suggesting that it was possible that someone dressed up like Lincoln and delivered the speech.  It's possible after all.  No one can disprove it with absolute 100% certainty.  There is zero evidence that this happened and lots of evidence and common sense that lends itself to it not happening, but it still could have.  That is the standard you are applying here.  It's very silly but explains a great deal about why you are a CTer.

[Bill Chapman]

If you're an Oswald arse-kisser and/or a high school drop-out, you might be a redneck.

[Walt Cakebread]

The old impossible standard of proof.  Absent a time machine, we couldn't prove any fact in human history if the standard is that we must somehow exclude EVERY other alternative possibility.  No matter how baseless or unsupported by facts and common sense.  You couldn't prove that Lincoln delivered the Gettysburg address if someone could raise doubt just by suggesting that it was possible that someone dressed up like Lincoln and delivered the speech.  It's possible after all.  No one can disprove it with absolute 100% certainty.  There is zero evidence that this happened and lots of evidence and common sense that lends itself to it not happening, but it still could have.  That is the standard you are applying here.  It's very silly but explains a great deal about why you are a CTer.

Impossible standard??     Simply because some person swears that he's been to the moon and has a rock  from the surface of the moon to prove it ....   Does not make his tale true.     Simply because Mr Kaiser said that the clip board was his, and Lee Oswald had used it does not constitute proof that Lee had been using it on 11/22/63....

[Walt Cakebread]

You need to look at all the northernmost line of columns on the Studebaker Map. Except for one slightly misplaced, they are all centered on 13'. So do we go with the only one that's slightly misplaced?

Funny. There's a whole row of boxes whose north end is south of the south face of the column. As explained, a few boxes jut to the south and the row overall progressively goes southward as it extends to the west.

Looking west

Exhibit marked by officer pointing to rifle location

Looking east (Rifle discovery opening out of frame to camera-right)

The Crime Lab in situ photo shows the Carcano on the floor against the south face of that row of book cartons. It's perfectly in agreement with the measurement on Studebaker's map, and the other Crime Lab photos showing the row of boxes at the south face of the column (from there, the photo shows the row going southward even more). The only thing wrong is what you latched on to, the slightly-misplaced column that's on the map.

You need to look at all the northernmost line of columns on the Studebaker Map. Except for one slightly misplaced, they are all centered on 13'. So do we go with the only one that's slightly misplaced?

Are you serious???...... Are you placing you faith on the fact that the map is more accurate than the actual construction??  Have you ever built any structure?     Can yo place the vertical studs in a wall any place you want?    Buidling code require that the studs be placed on 16 inch centers.....Do you believe that  you can place them anywhere from 14 to 18 inches??

If you believe that column is out of place ....wouldn't it be only half supporting the horizontal ceiling beam??

[Richard Smith]

Impossible standard??     Simply because some person swears that he's been to the moon and has a rock  from the surface of the moon to prove it ....   Does not make his tale true.     Simply because Mr Kaiser said that the clip board was his, and Lee Oswald had used it does not constitute proof that Lee had been using it on 11/22/63....

It does, however, provide a very good basis for reaching that conclusion.  Also factor in that no one else who had access to the floor (co-workers) ever came forward and said that they had used that clipboard and placed it there.  You can believe anything that you want, but the totality of facts, common sense, and evidence lends itself to Oswald using this clipboard on 11.22 and leaving in that location.   Also keep in mind that it had invoices dated 11.22 on it.  Kaiser was not at work that day.  So someone used that clipboard on 11.22 to fill book orders.  That narrows the list down considerably.  And Oswald was in the building and known to use that clipboard.  It allows us to make a reasonable inference.