Does Hiding a Rifle You Plan On Leaving Anyway Really Make Sense?

[Zeon Mason]

One of these days, maybe some new info will emerge that makes it plausible that the MC rifle was post event planted or switched for another rifle found.

The best I’ve been able to speculate is possible window of opportunity of an MC rifle found at Oswalds boarding room at 1:30 pm and it being immediately transported to the TSBD and up to 6th floor and placed or swapped at the boxes closest to staircase by 1:40pm.

This based on Tom Aleya statements referring to Lt. Day not arriving on the 6th floor until 18 minutes AFTER the “Mauser” rifle was discovered by Boone and Wietzman at 1:22 pm.

Otherwise it would have to be pre planted and that’s a problem also as to why would a rifle be planted with unusable scope and corrosion.

Besides Walt Cakebreads theory of an elaborate hoax to fool Oswald, the only other theory offered  Is that Oswald did have an MC rifle and had recently moved it from Paines garage ( leaving behind in the garage a flat blanket roiled up with strings still tied around it) in Oct. 63.


Someone knew of that and the set up of Oswald begins by luring him away from the boarding house to visit his wife on Thursday , with a false message phone call that Marina wished to reconcile their marriage.

So the reason for a rifle to have misaligned and malfunction scope and corrosion in barrel, was possibly because conspirator thief was unaware of the scope problem nor of the corrosion in the barrel,

I’ve also considered Walts theory could be partly correct in that the rifle WAS preplanted but for another reason such as the conspirators are fellow ex CIA of which Oswald may have at one time been involved with ( Sylvia Odeo and Loran Hall etc?).

[Walt Cakebread]

One of these days, maybe some new info will emerge that makes it plausible that the MC rifle was post event planted or switched for another rifle found.

The best I’ve been able to speculate is possible window of opportunity of an MC rifle found at Oswalds boarding room at 1:30 pm and it being immediately transported to the TSBD and up to 6th floor and placed or swapped at the boxes closest to staircase by 1:40pm.

This based on Tom Aleya statements referring to Lt. Day not arriving on the 6th floor until 18 minutes AFTER the “Mauser” rifle was discovered by Boone and Wietzman at 1:22 pm.

Otherwise it would have to be pre planted and that’s a problem also as to why would a rifle be planted with unusable scope and corrosion.

Besides Walt Cakebreads theory of an elaborate hoax to fool Oswald, the only other theory offered  Is that Oswald did have an MC rifle and had recently moved it from Paines garage ( leaving behind in the garage a flat blanket roiled up with strings still tied around it) in Oct. 63.


Someone knew of that and the set up of Oswald begins by luring him away from the boarding house to visit his wife on Thursday , with a false message phone call that Marina wished to reconcile their marriage.

So the reason for a rifle to have misaligned and malfunction scope and corrosion in barrel, was possibly because conspirator thief was unaware of the scope problem nor of the corrosion in the barrel,

I’ve also considered Walts theory could be partly correct in that the rifle WAS preplanted but for another reason such as the conspirators are fellow ex CIA of which Oswald may have at one time been involved with ( Sylvia Odeo and Loran Hall etc?).

Besides Walt Cakebreads theory of an elaborate hoax to fool Oswald,

There was no elaborate hoax to fool Oswald.....  Lee Oswald was playing in the play on stage 1.... While the conspirators were performing an entirely different play on stage two ....

Lee thought that he was participating in a hoax attempt to shoot JFK.    While the Killer's were preparing to murder JFK.   The conspirators had convinced Lee that Castro would welcome him to Cuba if it appeared that he had tried to shoot JFK.  ( Castro had publicly threatened JFK) Thus Lee played right into their hands and participated in setting the stage to make it appear as though he had fired at JFK.    All of the "evidence" found in the TSBD was nothing but stage props....The two spent shells ... the carcano with the scope mounted askew  ....Stage props .....The carcano was not the murder weapon, it was not fired that day. ( it had rust and dirt in the barrel which the FBI had cleaned prior to their testing. )

[Zeon Mason]

Walt, since you mention “stage prop”, what’s your explanation for a brass clip supposedly having been highlighted in frames of Alyea film to “prove” a clip was in the MC rifle, yet in the famous photo of Lt. Day carrying the MC rifle outside of TSBD, the clip that’s pointed out as partly slipping out has become SOLID BLACK!?

[Walt Cakebread]

Walt, since you mention “stage prop”, what’s your explanation for a brass clip supposedly having been highlighted in frames of Alyea film to “prove” a clip was in the MC rifle, yet in the famous photo of Lt. Day carrying the MC rifle outside of TSBD, the clip that’s pointed out as partly slipping out has become SOLID BLACK!?

The brass clip can be seen in the Alyea footage of Detective Day dusting the rifle looking for prints,  in front of the SUNLIT window  That same brass clip can be seen protruding from the magazine as detective Day carries the carcano out of the TSBD.   

FYI....The brass clips work well in the carcano and rarely do they stick in the magazine , because the brass  is heavier and less "sticky" than the steel clips.   I don't know what you're looking at, but the clip in the rifle that Day is carrying is NOT black.

[Walt Cakebread]

Those guy are lazy when it comes to posting what images they're referring to.

Clip in shade.

Clip not in shade.

The "Clip not in shade" photo clearly shows the BRASS clip protruding from the magazine.   It was in the rifle when Day picked the rifle up from the floor and it gradually was slipping out of the rifle as Day handled the rifle.   The FACT that the various photos show the clip sliding out of the magazine is solid prof that the clip was NOT jammed or stuck in the rifle.  The rifle was never in the proper orientation ( Magazine toward the floor) to allow the clip to fall out.    This simple FACT tells us that  the rifle was not fired that day.   Because the clip is free to fall out of the rifle when the LAST cartridge is stripped from the clip by the forward motion of the bolt.   Day and Fritz said that Fritz puled the bolt to the rear and a live round dropped out of the rifle....He did NOT push the bolt forward which is necessary to strip the last round from the clip.   This means that the clip was free to fall out at the time Day picked the rifle up from the floor.   The clip was simply "floating" in the magazine in a manner it would have been if a person had placed the clip in the magazine through the ejection port on the bottom of the magazine. 

If the live round had been in the clip and the forward motion of the bolt had stripped the live round from that clip the clip would have dropped out of the magazine through the ejection port.  The fact that the clip was in the magazine is a very strong indication that someone stuck that clip in the port and twisted it so that it wouldn't drop out easily.. 

What's more All of the witnesses who watched as Fritz pulled the bolt BACKWARD said that the live round fell out onto the floor at his feet.   This is a clear indication that the live cartridge had not been tripped from the clip and the cartridge was not married to the face of the bolt.   If that live round had been married to the face of the bolt the live cartridge would have been FLUNG out of the rifle by the ejector, when Fritz retracted the bolt.   This means that the live round was simply placed into the barrel and the bolt closed ( but not latched with the bolt knob down)   

All of the above indicates that the carcano was merely a "throw down" gun and it had not been fired that day. 

[Mitch Todd]

The "Clip not in shade" photo clearly shows the BRASS clip protruding from the magazine.   It was in the rifle when Day picked the rifle up from the floor and it gradually was slipping out of the rifle as Day handled the rifle.   The FACT that the various photos show the clip sliding out of the magazine is solid prof that the clip was NOT jammed or stuck in the rifle.  The rifle was never in the proper orientation ( Magazine toward the floor) to allow the clip to fall out.    This simple FACT tells us that  the rifle was not fired that day.   Because the clip is free to fall out of the rifle when the LAST cartridge is stripped from the clip by the forward motion of the bolt.   Day and Fritz said that Fritz puled the bolt to the rear and a live round dropped out of the rifle....He did NOT push the bolt forward which is necessary to strip the last round from the clip.   This means that the clip was free to fall out at the time Day picked the rifle up from the floor.   The clip was simply "floating" in the magazine in a manner it would have been if a person had placed the clip in the magazine through the ejection port on the bottom of the magazine. 

If the live round had been in the clip and the forward motion of the bolt had stripped the live round from that clip the clip would have dropped out of the magazine through the ejection port.  The fact that the clip was in the magazine is a very strong indication that someone stuck that clip in the port and twisted it so that it wouldn't drop out easily.. 

What's more All of the witnesses who watched as Fritz pulled the bolt BACKWARD said that the live round fell out onto the floor at his feet.   This is a clear indication that the live cartridge had not been tripped from the clip and the cartridge was not married to the face of the bolt.   If that live round had been married to the face of the bolt the live cartridge would have been FLUNG out of the rifle by the ejector, when Fritz retracted the bolt.   This means that the live round was simply placed into the barrel and the bolt closed ( but not latched with the bolt knob down)   

All of the above indicates that the carcano was merely a "throw down" gun and it had not been fired that day.

1.)  Grease, dirt and grime adhering to the sides of the magazine well can prevent the clip from falling out properly after the last cartridge is chambered. It's This has been known for quite some whilw. Lattimer brought it to the attention of the JFKA community in Kennedy and Lincoln back in 1980.

2.) In the Carcano, ejection is powered by the cycling of the action. Because of that, the force applied by the ejector against the cartridge rim is directly proportional to the force being used to pull the bolt backwards. If you pull softly, you wont get much ejection out of your ejection.

[Walt Cakebread]

1.)  Grease, dirt and grime adhering to the sides of the magazine well can prevent the clip from falling out properly after the last cartridge is chambered. It's This has been known for quite some whilw. Lattimer brought it to the attention of the JFKA community in Kennedy and Lincoln back in 1980.

2.) In the Carcano, ejection is powered by the cycling of the action. Because of that, the force applied by the ejector against the cartridge rim is directly proportional to the force being used to pull the bolt backwards. If you pull softly, you wont get much ejection out of your ejection.

Grease, dirt and grime adhering to the sides of the magazine well can prevent the clip from falling out properly after the last cartridge is chambered. It's This has been known for quite some whilw. Lattimer brought it to the attention of the JFKA community in Kennedy and Lincoln back in 1980.

But it is a fact that the clip was slowly falling out as detective Day handled the rifle...That means the clip was NOT hung up in the magazine.


2.) In the Carcano, ejection is powered by the cycling of the action. Because of that, the force applied by the ejector against the cartridge rim is directly proportional to the force being used to pull the bolt backwards. If you pull softly, you wont get much ejection out of your ejection.

Yes it's true the spent shell ( or live round) can be prevented from being ejected by refraining from pulling the bolt back all the way or pulling the bolt slowly to the rear.... But that's not what Capt Fritz did....He pulled the bolt back in a rapid motion and the live round merely fell out of the rifle....It was NOT ejected by the ejector.   Which means the cartridge was not married to the face of the bolt....That live round had simply been dropped into the barrel ..... It had not been stripped from the clip.  The elevator lever scratches the last round in the clip but there was no elevator mark on the live round.   The reason....  That Live round was not fed to the bolt by the elevator lever.....

[Mitch Todd]

Grease, dirt and grime adhering to the sides of the magazine well can prevent the clip from falling out properly after the last cartridge is chambered. It's This has been known for quite some while. Lattimer brought it to the attention of the JFKA community in Kennedy and Lincoln back in 1980.

But it is a fact that the clip was slowly falling out as detective Day handled the rifle...That means the clip was NOT hung up in the magazine.

I said that the grime keeps the clip from falling out properly. I didn't say that it kept the clip frozen in place. The clip is still able to work it's way out as the rifle is moved and manipulated.

2.) In the Carcano, ejection is powered by the cycling of the action. Because of that, the force applied by the ejector against the cartridge rim is directly proportional to the force being used to pull the bolt backwards. If you pull softly, you wont get much ejection out of your ejection.

Yes it's true the spent shell ( or live round) can be prevented from being ejected by refraining from pulling the bolt back all the way or pulling the bolt slowly to the rear.... But that's not what Capt Fritz did....He pulled the bolt back in a rapid motion and the live round merely fell out of the rifle....It was NOT ejected by the ejector.   Which means the cartridge was not married to the face of the bolt....That live round had simply been dropped into the barrel ..... It had not been stripped from the clip.  The elevator lever scratches the last round in the clip but there was no elevator mark on the live round.   The reason....  That Live round was not fed to the bolt by the elevator lever.....

Oh? And where did you get this idea form? Doesn't seem to have come from Day, Fritz, Weitzman, or Boone -- I checked their affidavits and testimony.