Joe Bidens Bay of Pigs moment

[Richard Smith]

Bidens presidency is over. Fleeing civilians falling off planes - nightmarish pictures. In the same way the pictures of the Capitol riot will define Trumps presidency, those pictures will define Bidens presidency.

Plus Harris had been bragging of how she had been the last person in the room before Biden took the final decision to withdraw all US troops. She wanted it to be known it was her decision too. That was when she assumed the withdrawal would result in a stable Afghan government operating out of Kabul which she could brag about being part of. Now she's nowhere to be seen.

I give Biden credit for not caving to the enormous political pressure to simply kick the can down the road on Afghanistan.  The establishment politicians and military have made out like bandits on the funding allocated for that hopeless endeavor.  All that money was wasted or went to corruption including being funneled back to the politicians who allocated it.  They often lied or were shamefully incompetent in reporting on the result of trillions of dollars being spent in Afghanistan.  Most Americans support the decision to withdraw but not the disgraceful way that it was conducted.  Ironically, Biden cited the successful effort to kill Osama bin Laden as the objective of the mission.  Of course, he himself opposed the raid that actually killed bin Laden. 

[Jon Banks]

Author, David Talbot, suggests that the Bay of Pigs was intended to fail.

The assumption was that the failure and embarrassment would forced JFK to escalate US military intervention in Cuba (Kennedy of course pissed off the CIA by refusing to get militarily involved in Cuba).

Similarly, it's plausible that the Pentagon intentionally screwed up the withdrawal logistics because most of the Pentagon brass oppose the Afghanistan withdrawal policy.

Either way, I'm glad that Biden isn't listening to the Generals who are corrupted by Defense Contractors and war profiteering.

[Richard Smith]

Author, David Talbot, suggests that the Bay of Pigs was intended to fail.

The assumption was that the failure and embarrassment would forced JFK to escalate US military intervention in Cuba (Kennedy of course pissed off the CIA by refusing to get militarily involved in Cuba).

Similarly, it's plausible that the Pentagon intentionally screwed up the withdrawal logistics because most of the Pentagon brass oppose the Afghanistan withdrawal policy.

Either way, I'm glad that Biden isn't listening to the Generals who are corrupted by Defense Contractors and war profiteering.

The politicians and military couldn't acknowledge that things would fall apart in Afghanistan when the military pulled out because for years they have been telling lies that the money allocated had been spent for some tangible result (i.e. bolstering the government and military).  That was a complete falsehood.  Most of the money went to the politicians and military contractors.  Most likely millions are now going directly to the Taliban as a bribe to maintain order until the evacuations are complete. 

As a result, the US couldn't begin evacuating people in advance because it would have undermined the fake narrative that they were spinning about the Afghan military being able to maintain control.  You can't say things are going to be fine while evacuating everyone to safety in expectation of a collapse.  Biden chose to lie about what would happen rather than acknowledge defeat and assist folks in getting out in advance.  That will be part of his legacy.  How much it impacts the upcoming elections is another matter.  Most Americans wanted out and couldn't care less what happens there but the images of the chaos and panic are disastrous and play into the ongoing sense of weakness and incompetence.  Of course, Biden will not be running for reelection as he will be 82 but the Dems will be hurt by this in the short term.

[Jon Banks]

The politicians and military couldn't acknowledge that things would fall apart in Afghanistan when the military pulled out because for years they have been telling lies that the money allocated had been spent for some tangible result (i.e. bolstering the government and military).  That was a complete falsehood.  Most of the money went to the politicians and military contractors.  Most likely millions are now going directly to the Taliban as a bribe to maintain order until the evacuations are complete. 

As a result, the US couldn't begin evacuating people in advance because it would have undermined the fake narrative that they were spinning about the Afghan military being able to maintain control.  You can't say things are going to be fine while evacuating everyone to safety in expectation of a collapse.  Biden chose to lie about what would happen rather than acknowledge defeat and assist folks in getting out in advance.  That will be part of his legacy.  How much it impacts the upcoming elections is another matter.  Most Americans wanted out and couldn't care less what happens there but the images of the chaos and panic are disastrous and play into the ongoing sense of weakness and incompetence.  Of course, Biden will not be running for reelection as he will be 82 but the Dems will be hurt by this in the short term.

the fact that the Afghan government disbanded in just a few days proves that the whole thing was a House of Cards.

This wasn't our best moment in terms of nation-building.

The ugly way that we're exiting the country is fitting given the facts of how much our reasons for staying in Afghanistan were based on lies and false hopes.

[Walt Cakebread]

the fact that the Afghan government disbanded in just a few days proves that the whole thing was a House of Cards.

This wasn't our best moment in terms of nation-building.

The ugly way that we're exiting the country is fitting given the facts of how much our reasons for staying in Afghanistan were based on lies and false hopes.

In your opinion , What did we intend to achieve in Afghanistan ?  IOW....  What the hell were we doing there?

[Jon Banks]

In your opinion , What did we intend to achieve in Afghanistan ?  IOW....  What the hell were we doing there?

I have no idea why attempting to build a democracy in Afghanistan became an objective.

Counter-terrorism is our only interest in Afghanistan.

[Walt Cakebread]

I have no idea why attempting to build a democracy in Afghanistan became an objective.

Counter-terrorism is our only interest in Afghanistan.

attempting to build a democracy in Afghanistan

Based on Christian concepts....     I'd say that's insanity.....

Counter-terrorism is our only interest in Afghanistan.


Has our efforts to strengthen the government, and weaken the Taliban, been successful?.....     I'd say we we've wasted our time, money, and American lives....

[Richard Smith]

I have no idea why attempting to build a democracy in Afghanistan became an objective.

Counter-terrorism is our only interest in Afghanistan.

There was widespread almost universal support for intervention in Afghanistan in the aftermath of 9/11.  Afghanistan had harbored and enabled terrorists to commit attacks across the world.  It became a "nation" building exercise by implication to avoid a repeat of the circumstances that existed when that situation arose.  Like Vietnam, once a certain amount of resources are sunk into that cause it becomes a trap.  To get out politicians have to acknowledge at some point that it is a failure and explain why they lied for decades.  So president after president kicked the can down the road until Trump made the decision to end it.  On the upside, you can probably get a good deal on a used car at the Kabul airport.