The Stephen Roy manuscript on David Ferrie

[Gerry Down]

There was no Ferrie office.

Thanks.

By this time in 1963, all Ferrie could think of and work on was his dismissal from
Eastern Airlines. All his anti-Castro Cuban stuff had stopped in mid-1961.

fred

How can you put such a definite date of mid-1961 as the end of his anti-castro stuff?

Orest Pena said Ferrie and Sergio Arcacha Smith hung around together and Sergio Arcacha Smith did not leave New Orleans until about Jan 1962 when Luis Rabel took over as the CRC delegate in New Orleans.

[Fred Litwin]

Again, it's all from the Stephen Roy manuscript. Once Arcacha introduced Ferrie to Bringuier, it
was all over. Bringuier was turned off because he was gay...and that was the end of Ferrie.

fred

[Steve M. Galbraith]

There was no Ferrie office. By this time in 1963, all Ferrie could think of and work on was his dismissal from
Eastern Airlines. All his anti-Castro Cuban stuff had stopped in mid-1961.

fred

Mr. Roy (and others) pointed out in his work that much of the anti-Castro activity such as the guerilla camps around New Orleans had been shut down by the Kennedy Administration following the end of the missile crisis or had fallen apart after the Bay of Pigs disaster. A combination of the two. Part of the agreement with Moscow by JFK was to end the attempts to militarily overthrow Castro. The Kennedy White House was frustrated and angry about the exiles conducting operations without their approval such as Alpha66's attacks on Soviet ships in Havana harbor during the crisis.

By 1963 there wasn't much anti-Castro "stuff" to do in NO. Roy argues that Ferrie had moved on from such work. In fact, he suggests that Ferrie had moved on in 1961 1962 after the BOP failure.

Many of Roy's online posts (he used the online name of David Blackburst) on Ferrie et al. can be read here: https://jfk-online.com/blackburst.html

[Gerry Down]

Again, it's all from the Stephen Roy manuscript. Once Arcacha introduced Ferrie to Bringuier, it
was all over. Bringuier was turned off because he was gay...and that was the end of Ferrie.

fred

I'm not sure I understand what you're saying. The CRC (New Orleans delegation begun in about March 1961) and the DRE (New Orleans delegation begun in Aug 1962) were separate entities even though they were both anti-castro. They ran in different circles (i.e. when Bringuier got arrested, Bringuier was flattered that Frank Bartes of the CRC came to support him at court because he and the CRC did not run in the same circles). According to Bringuiers book "Crime Without Punishment", Bringuier liked neither Sergio Arcacha Smith nor Ferrie, so I can't see how Bringuier held enough sway to get Sergio Arcacha Smith to ostracize Ferrie.

Sergio Arcacha Smith and Bringuier appear to have never really got on and its true that Bringuier did play a role in helping to get rid of Sergio Arcacha Smith in Jan 1962 after which Sergio Arcacha Smith and Bringuier stopped talking. So you're saying that Bringuier held enough sway that he managed to get rid of both Sergio Arcacha Smith and Ferrie from the anti-castro community in New Orleans?

Its not clear that Bringuier and Ferrie were at such logger-heads as that. For example, Bringuier says in "Crime Without Punishment" that Ferrie came to his shop on two occasions in 1966 and 1967. During the latter meeting Ferrie and Bringuier actually went to a coffee shop for a talk (though Bringuier never says what they were talking about). I can't see why the two of them would be having coffee if Bringuier had been the cause of ostracizing Ferrie in some way from the anti-castro community.

But having said that, even if Ferrie had stopped all anti-castro operations in mid-1961, that would not preclude the INS or FBI from keeping surveillance on Ferrie in case he was attempting to conduct anti-castro activities again. And that this surveillance, according to Roache, picked up Oswald interacting with "Ferries group".

[Fred Litwin]

Ferrie went to see Bringuier because of the Garrison investigation. And that was
what they discussed.

fred

[Gerry Down]

Ferrie went to see Bringuier because of the Garrison investigation. And that was
what they discussed.

fred

But that's the thing. What you're saying is that Bringuier so hated Ferrie that he got him removed from the anti-castro community but here they are sitting down talking about the Garrison investigation over coffee? What exactly were the two talking about? The section in Bringuiers book where he talks about this meeting over coffee kind of trails off and the reader is left with the impression there is something about this meeting that Bringuier is not telling the reader about. Bringuier writes about it in vague terms.

I agree that Bringuier did not like Ferrie. He says that in his book. But he doesn't write anything about actively trying to get Ferrie removed from the anti-castro community and this in some way resulting in Ferries exile from the anti-castro community in New Orleans by mid-1961. That Ferrie was ostracised from the anti-castro community by mid-1961 sounds like someones opinion (i.e Stephen Roy) rather than being grounded in actual fact.

Perhaps the rumor that Ferrie had ceased all anti-castro activity by mid-1961 is just something people in the anti-castro community would like to put out there. Something to hide the fact Oswald and Ferrie had been together in the same "group" in 1963. One way to hide the fact Oswald and Ferrie had been in the same group in 1963 would be to put out the rumor that Ferrie had ceased all anti-castro activity by mid-1961.

[Fred Litwin]

There was a combination of things. Bringuier rejected Ferrie...and that said something to Arcacha. He knew he really
couldn't bring Ferrie into the fight. At the same time, Ferrie had the job issues and that required his full focus.

fred

[Gerry Down]

So we could have a situation where the INS were surveiling banister and ferrie (regardless of what the two were doing at the newman building in the summer of 1963) at the newman building perhaps to see if they were still conducting anti-castro activities by that time (post cuban missile crisis) and picked up Oswald going in and out to the point it was interpreted that Oswald was part of "ferries group". Doesn't matter what ferries group actually was. Could be a chess group for all I care. But what roache appears to do is establish some kind of a relationship between ferrie and Oswald.