Why are the CT's so obsessed with disproving the innocent Bus and Cab rides?

[Dan O'meara]

A few things Walt,

Your notion that Oswald was picked up at 12:30pm exactly and dropped off at 12:45pm exactly is embarrassing.
Look at all of the times Whaley records in his manifest, there are all rounded figures ending in 5 or 0. Many of his fares are recorded in 15 minute blocks. any buffoon can see they are estimations, just as Whaley says they are. They are not to be treated with the precision you give them. This is so obvious.
Look at the times and ask yourself if they represent the actual times he picked people up and dropped them off.

Just because Whaley was at the bus station at 12:30pm doesn't mean he picked up Oswald at this time.

Where is Whaley's quote that Oswald was wearing a blue jacket? I can't find it.

[Dan O'meara]

As much as I'm enjoying reading all the posts in this thread is anyone actually going to come up with an explanation of how Oswald got from Dealey Plaza to his Rooming House in less than half an hour if the bus and taxi ride combo is actually nonsense?

No

[Vincent Baxter]

Very Well, Mr Mytoe....  It is a recorded FACT that Whaley said that the man whom he transported to Oakcliff was wearing a BLUE JACKET and BLUE trousers that matched the BLUE Jacket.

Lee went to his room at 1:00pm at the rooming house and changed his clothes Those items of clothing were found in the dresser where Lee told the interrogators he had placed them.   Detective Potts recorded the items that they found in Lee's room ..... Potts recorded that the shirt was a REDDISH BROWN, long sleeve shirt, with a BUTTON DOWN COLLAR.   There was NO  BLUE clothing found in Lee's room...And there was NO JACKET ....

Clearly , Whaley's passenger was NOT Lee Oswald.   

Clearly it wasn't Oswald...even though Whaley actually identified Oswald in the police line up as being the passenger he took to Oakcliffe?

Are you basically insinuating that Whaley was incapable of making a reliable positive ID of his passenger when face to face with him in a line up but when it came to getting a definitive and accurate description of what he was wearing hours earlier there's absolutely no possibility of him making a mistake?

 

[Walt Cakebread]

Clearly it wasn't Oswald...even though Whaley actually identified Oswald in the police line up as being the passenger he took to Oakcliffe?

Are you basically insinuating that Whaley was incapable of making a reliable positive ID of his passenger when face to face with him in a line up but when it came to getting a definitive and accurate description of what he was wearing hours earlier there's absolutely no possibility of him making a mistake?

 

Hi Vincent....In a nut shell....I believe that Bill Whaley was a big BSer....... He started BSing his fellow cabbies about how he had transported the killer just minutes after he'd shot the President.    It was all BS....  Whaley did in fact transport a young man to 500 N. Beckley but it was NOT Lee Oswald.    He said the man was dressed in a BLUE JACKET and BLUE trousers.... That was NOT how Lee was dressed.   He never realized that his dispatcher would call the police and notify them that one of the drivers had transported Lee Oswald just minutes after the assassination.

At any rate once he'd opened his mouth and started lying ...he was stuck.   He was too embarrassed to admit that he had been BSing and the cops didn't want him to admit it....They needed Whaley to show that Lee had traveled by bus and taxi to reach the rooming house. At that point they wanted proof that Lee had in fact been at the scene of the crime......

[Walt Cakebread]

A few things Walt,

Your notion that Oswald was picked up at 12:30pm exactly and dropped off at 12:45pm exactly is embarrassing.
Look at all of the times Whaley records in his manifest, there are all rounded figures ending in 5 or 0. Many of his fares are recorded in 15 minute blocks. any buffoon can see they are estimations, just as Whaley says they are. They are not to be treated with the precision you give them. This is so obvious.
Look at the times and ask yourself if they represent the actual times he picked people up and dropped them off.

Just because Whaley was at the bus station at 12:30pm doesn't mean he picked up Oswald at this time.

Where is Whaley's quote that Oswald was wearing a blue jacket? I can't find it.

Where is Whaley's quote that Oswald was wearing a blue jacket? I can't find it.

 Mr. BALL. Did you notice how he was dressed?

  Mr. WHALEY. Yes, sir. I didn’t pay much attention to it right then. But it
     all came back when I really found out who I had. He was dressed in just
     ordinary work clothes. It wasn’t khaki pants but they were khaki material,
     blue faded blue color, like a blue uniform made in khaki. Then he had on a
     brown shirt with a little silverlike stripe on it and he had on some kind
     of jacket, I didn’t notice very close but I think it was a work jacket that
     almost matched the pants.

Your notion that Oswald was picked up at 12:30pm exactly and dropped off at 12:45pm exactly is embarrassing.


I've never said that the man who was wearing a BLUE JACKET was picked up at precisely 12:30.....   Whaley said that he was at the Greyhound bus depot at 12:30.   He decided he needed a package of cigarettes, so he got out of his cab and was about to go inside the depot to buy a pack of cigarettes  when the young man who was wearing a BLUE JACKET approached and asked if he could hire the taxi.

That time could have been as late as 12:35.....  But it makes no difference ....because Lee was still at the TSBD at that time and he was NOT wearing a BLUE JACKET.

[John Mytton]

Where is Whaley's quote that Oswald was wearing a blue jacket? I can't find it.

 Mr. BALL. Did you notice how he was dressed?

  Mr. WHALEY. Yes, sir. I didn’t pay much attention to it right then. But it
     all came back when I really found out who I had. He was dressed in just
     ordinary work clothes. It wasn’t khaki pants but they were khaki material,
     blue faded blue color, like a blue uniform made in khaki. Then he had on a
     brown shirt with a little silverlike stripe on it and he had on some kind
     of jacket, I didn’t notice very close but I think it was a work jacket that
     almost matched the pants.

Your notion that Oswald was picked up at 12:30pm exactly and dropped off at 12:45pm exactly is embarrassing.


I've never said that the man who was wearing a BLUE JACKET was picked up at precisely 12:30.....   Whaley said that he was at the Greyhound bus depot at 12:30.   He decided he needed a package of cigarettes, so he got out of his cab and was about to go inside the depot to buy a pack of cigarettes  when the young man who was wearing a BLUE JACKET approached and asked if he could hire the taxi.

That time could have been as late as 12:35.....  But it makes no difference ....because Lee was still at the TSBD at that time and he was NOT wearing a BLUE JACKET.

You must have missed my earlier post, let me repost it here.

The line of argument that we can just dismiss an eyewitness because of a clothing discrepancy is absurd, from the time we are babies we first learn to recognise faces, like our mothers and fathers and as we continue to age when we first see someone we look at their face to gauge, attractiveness, emotion, etc, as they say, you make a good first impression by smiling and what a person is wearing comes a distant second, our fashion choices don't define who we are.

For example I went shopping at the local corner shop yesterday and I definitely know who served me and if I had to, I could say without reservation that that person was the one who packaged my bread and milk but if I had to recall their clothes then I simply couldn't because I had no reason to remember, much like Whaley who only remembered Oswald's bracelet because he made similar jewellery and seeing Oswald's shiny bracelet was of interest, but otherwise Oswald was just another customer.

In the following image is shown the man wearing BLACK who in and around Port Arthur killed 35 people and many eyewitnesses were face to face with this mass murderer and positively identified him and later this same man admitted to the crime.



These eyewitnesses all positively identified the same man and understandably have differing memories on the clothing colour but if we use the same criteria of throwing out eyewitnesses because of a silly colour discrepancy then we'd still have a mass murderer on the loose. And this highlights the problem with rabid JFKA CT's, outside this single case, they have no real life experience!

Name of Witness: DUTTON Christian Names: James David       brown jacket
Name of Witness: KINGSTON Christian Names: Ian Gregory     green jacket
Name of Witness: BEEKMAN Christian Names: Michael Dean     ski type jacket, blue, orange and a few other colours on it
Name of Witness: WILLIAMS Christian Names: Colin Sydney    3/4 length jacket, dark in appearance
Name of Witness: WILLIAMS Christian Names: Iris Emelia     He had on a jacket of some description.
Name of Witness: SARGENT Christian Names: Michael Robert   blue jacket
Name of Witness: RIVIERE Christian Names: John Michael     “High length’ black jacket
Name of Witness: OLSON Christian Names: MARY LEE           I think was green
Name of Witness: LEVER Cristian Names: Coralee Helen       dark jacket
Name of Witness: NASH Christian Names: Carolyn Louise      khaki green jacket or parker type jacket
Name of Witness: BALASKO Christian Names: James            black jacket
Name of Witness: McKENNA Christian Names: Rebecca Kate     ski type jacket which was zipped all the way up. it was either navy, blue or grey.

JohnM

[Tom Scully]

Where is Whaley's quote that Oswald was wearing a blue jacket? I can't find it.

 Mr. BALL. Did you notice how he was dressed?

  Mr. WHALEY. Yes, sir. I didn’t pay much attention to it right then. But it
     all came back when I really found out who I had. He was dressed in just
     ordinary work clothes. It wasn’t khaki pants but they were khaki material,
     blue faded blue color, like a blue uniform made in khaki. Then he had on a
     brown shirt with a little silverlike stripe on it and he had on some kind
     of jacket, I didn’t notice very close but I think it was a work jacket that
     almost matched the pants.

Your notion that Oswald was picked up at 12:30pm exactly and dropped off at 12:45pm exactly is embarrassing.


I've never said that the man who was wearing a BLUE JACKET was picked up at precisely 12:30.....   Whaley said that he was at the Greyhound bus depot at 12:30.   He decided he needed a package of cigarettes, so he got out of his cab and was about to go inside the depot to buy a pack of cigarettes  when the young man who was wearing a BLUE JACKET approached and asked if he could hire the taxi.

That time could have been as late as 12:35.....  But it makes no difference ....because Lee was still at the TSBD at that time and he was NOT wearing a BLUE JACKET.

Walt, it isn't often (if ever...) that I find myself on your side of an argument. Dan makes my argument for me....

...Many of his fares are recorded in 15 minute blocks. any buffoon can see they are estimations, just as Whaley says they are. They are not to be treated with the precision you give them. This is so obvious....

Whaley is a busy guy. Six years ago, I drove Uber-X for about a year. I recall that I did not get as good a look at the few passengers who decided to sit in front as I regularly got at the ones who sat in the back seat because of the angle of the rear view mirror and because a person sitting to your right is too close to get a good look at because they are literally in your face. Any long glance seems like staring, and if a driver is smoking, I think he would tend to want to exhale to the left of a front seat passenger.

Whaley is an uncorroborated witness, as was Mary Bledsoe.

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/bledsoe.htm
...Mr. BALL - But, before you go into that, I notice you have been reading from some notes before you.
Mrs. BLEDSOE - Well, because I forget what I have to say.
Mr. BALL - When did you make those notes?
Mrs. BLEDSOE - What day did I make them?
Miss DOUTHIT - When Mr. Sorrels and I were talking about her going to Washington, he made the suggestion that she put all the things down on paper because she might forget something, and I said, "Mary, you put everything on a piece of paper so that you can remember it and you won't forget anything, you know, what happened," and that's when she started making notes.
Mr. BALL - You have made the notes in the last week?
Mrs. BLEDSOE - Yes.
Miss DOUTHIT - At my suggestion and Mr. Sorrels.
Mr. BALL - You didn't make any notes during the week he was there?
Mrs. BLEDSOE - No; I didn't pay any attention to him....

People assumed she meant SS agent Sorrels coached her, but D.B. Matthew's mother's sister, Adelaide, was married to Mary's uncle Jewell Rawlston Germany, who was Mary's age.

Adelaide Senter Germany was head of household. She had separated from Bledsoe's uncle.
J (Jewell) Rawlston Germany Jr was about RD Matthew's age, and was first cousin of Bledsoe & Matthews!
RD Matthews, marked with a red "X".
Adelaide's sister was Matthew's mother
Ida Senter was Matthew's grandmother.

Mary & RD's first cousin, born in 1921 :
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/87462676/jewell-rawlston-germany

From RD Matthew's obituary,

https://www.reviewjournal.com/news/two-line-obituary-doesnt-do-justice-to-shadowy-r-d-matthews/
...He was born in Aspermont, Texas, on July 26, 1920. Matthews enlisted in the Marines after Pearl Harbor and was awarded a Navy Cross and Purple Heart. He is said to have inflicted more than his share of wounds in underworld wars after returning home. A member of the notorious Hollis de Lois Green gang of Texas, he was a Dallas bookmaker, nightclub manager and was known on the street as a stealthy enforcer.

Matthews was so well- acquainted with the inside players associated with the assassination of President John F. Kennedy that he rated mention in the Warren Commission Report and was interviewed at length in 1978 by the House Select Committee on Assassinations. (His attorney was Binion friend and future U.S. District Judge Harry Claiborne.)...

Excerpt from "Crossfire" :

[Alan Ford]

As much as I'm enjoying reading all the posts in this thread is anyone actually going to come up with an explanation of how Oswald got from Dealey Plaza to his Rooming House in less than half an hour if the bus and taxi ride combo is actually nonsense?

A ride from Mr Frazier perhaps?