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Author Topic: Why are the CT's so obsessed with disproving the innocent Bus and Cab rides?  (Read 68580 times)

Offline Zeon Mason

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Re: Why are the CT's so obsessed with disproving the innocent Bus and Cab rides?
« Reply #112 on: September 02, 2021, 03:33:51 AM »
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I don’t see anyway around the CE 163 BLUE jacket left in the Domino room problem other than to suggest it’s a false story by Mr. Kaiser.

How does Mr Data ( aka Mytton) resolve this other than that Whaley is color blind?

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Re: Why are the CT's so obsessed with disproving the innocent Bus and Cab rides?
« Reply #112 on: September 02, 2021, 03:33:51 AM »


Offline John Mytton

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Re: Why are the CT's so obsessed with disproving the innocent Bus and Cab rides?
« Reply #113 on: September 02, 2021, 04:17:21 AM »
I don’t see anyway around the CE 163 BLUE jacket left in the Domino room problem other than to suggest it’s a false story by Mr. Kaiser.

How does Mr Data ( aka Mytton) resolve this other than that Whaley is color blind?

The day after in Whaley's signed and corrected affidavit, he describes a small 5'8" slender man wearing a dark shirt with white spots and wearing a Bracelet on his left wrist, a pretty good match.



Oswald's dark shirt doesn't have white spots but it does have patches of a lighter shade and considering that Whaley had no reason to specifically remember any details at all about this random passenger, Overall with the above observations, it's a pretty close identification.



Btw re your Mr Data reference, ironically I'm watching "All Good Things" on the TV right now and it's a good way to finish the series. Thumb1:

JohnM
« Last Edit: September 02, 2021, 04:19:32 AM by John Mytton »

Offline John Mytton

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Re: Why are the CT's so obsessed with disproving the innocent Bus and Cab rides?
« Reply #114 on: September 02, 2021, 07:36:14 AM »
Scary to watch two decades of cognitive decay unfold!

First were have this "pretty good match"...

The day after in Whaley's signed and corrected affidavit, he describes a small 5'8" slender man wearing a dark shirt with white spots and wearing a Bracelet on his left wrist, a pretty good match.

But, there are no white spots with no reason to remember them...

Oswald's dark shirt doesn't have white spots but it does have patches of a lighter shade and considering that Whaley had no reason to specifically remember any details at all about this random passenger,

Then earlier we had this argument that witnesses were entirely unreliable when recalling details of clothing...
 
For example I went shopping at the local corner shop yesterday and I definitely know who served me and if I had to, I could say without reservation that that person was the one who packaged my bread and milk but if I had to recall their clothes then I simply couldn't because I had no reason to remember, much like Whaley who only remembered Oswald's bracelet because he made similar jewellery and seeing Oswald's shiny bracelet was of interest, but otherwise Oswald was just another customer.

Leading us to the conclusion...

Overall with the above observations, it's a pretty close identification.

Can you get much higher on the scale of LN stupidity?

BTW, how may young men wore a bracelet in Dallas in 1963?

You're not making a lick of sense, when provided with the exact information that you and Walt have been seeking you go off on a completely different tangent, you only want to fight and frankly the only reason you're here is to create chaos. We(LNers) are not your enemy and what do you think you're achieving by shooting the messenger?

JohnM
« Last Edit: September 02, 2021, 10:40:16 AM by John Mytton »

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Re: Why are the CT's so obsessed with disproving the innocent Bus and Cab rides?
« Reply #114 on: September 02, 2021, 07:36:14 AM »


Offline John Mytton

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Re: Why are the CT's so obsessed with disproving the innocent Bus and Cab rides?
« Reply #115 on: September 02, 2021, 10:35:41 AM »
Bump.

EDIT originally I posted that Whaley saw Oswald's bracelet in the cab and Oswald didn't have the bracelet on in the line-up which was one of my following pieces of evidence, but Whaley first saw a newspaper and identified Oswald to his Superior, so I checked some newspapers from the Friday and Saturday and found this photo from Lancaster PA which shows Oswald's bracelet. I couldn't find any Dallas newspapers with the same image but it's possible. And this honesty is the hallmark of us LNers, we only want the truth. A lesson that some CT's would be wise to emulate.



Number 1: Oswald admitted catching a cab and Oswald described to Fritz, a lady who also wanted a cab and she was told that there was another cab  behind.

Mr. BALL. I don't want you to say he admitted the transfer. I want you to tell me what he said about the transfer.
Mr. FRITZ. He told he that was the transfer the busdriver had given him when he caught the bus to go home. But he had told me if you will remember in our previous conversation that he rode the bus or on North Beckley and had walked home but in the meantime, sometime had told me about him riding a cab.
So, when I asked him about a cab ride if he had ridden in a cab he said yes, he had, he told me wrong about the bus, he had rode a cab. He said the reason he changed, that he rode the bus for a short distance, and the crowd was so heavy and traffic was so bad that he got out and caught a cab, and I asked him some other questions about the cab and I asked him what happened there when he caught the cab and he said there was a lady trying to catch a cab and he told the busdriver, the busdriver told him to tell the lady to catch the cab behind him and he said he rode that cab over near his home, he rode home in a cab.
I asked him how much the cabfare was, he said 85 cents.


In Whaley's affidavit he describes a lady who wanted a cab and just as Oswald told Fritz, she was told there was a cab behind, see how independent corroboration destroys you!



Whaley was into bracelets because he made them himself, so obviously he noticed Oswald wearing a Bracelet and what made this Bracelet especially stand out is that it was shiny!

Representative FORD. This is something you clearly noticed while he was riding in the car with you?
Mr. WHALEY. Yes, sir; I noticed it; yes, sir. I always notice watchbands, unusual watchbands, and identification bracelets like these, because I make them myself. I made this one.
Representative FORD. In other words, you have a particular interest in them?
Mr. WHALEY. Yes, I particularly notice things like that.


Mr. BALL. I have here a bracelet which is marked 383. Take a look at it and tell me if you have ever seen it before.
Mr. WHALEY. Yes, sir; as near as I can tell that is the bracelet he was wearing the day I carried him, the shiny bracelet I was talking about.
Mr. BALL. You mentioned the fact that the man who sat in the front seat of your cab, which you drove from the Greyhound Station on Lamar Street over to 500 North Beckley, had an identification bracelet on him.
Mr. WHALEY. Yes, it looked like an identification bracelet. It looks like this one, sir, it was shiny, I couldn't tell exactly whether that was the bracelet or not.
Mr. BALL. But it looks like one of them?
Mr. WHALEY. Yes, sir; it looks like it.


And what do you know, Oswald was wearing a shiny Bracelet.  Thumb1:



In the following photo Oswald wasn't wearing his Bracelet, Marine ring or his brown shirt.



When Oswald was led into the line-up he wasn't wearing his brown shirt or the Marine Ring and throughout the clip I couldn't see the bracelet, so how could Whaley even know that Oswald possessed and was wearing a bracelet? Again this evidence destroys you.





In a line-up you identify a suspect to the Police and Detective Leavelle confirms that Whaley identified Oswald. Guess what, this conclusive evidence also destroys you!

Mr. BALL. Did Whaley say anything to you personally?
Mr. LEAVELLE. To me personally?
Mr. BALL. Yes.
Mr. LEAVELLE. Well, of course, I asked him if he---if the man that he remembered or saw there, whatever he was identifying him for there was up there and he said "Yes, the man in the T-shirt." Whether he was doing all the talking or not wouldn't make any difference, he still knew him.


Whaley as a cab driver could literally go anywhere in Dallas but at the right time and don't forget Whaley testified to not using a watch, fits Whaley's margin of error and at this time he took a passenger from the right location and delivered his customer to the right location, just beyond Oswald's rooming house. The chances that another random passenger went from the right location to the same area where Oswald lived at the right time is astronomical.



JohnM

Offline Dan O'meara

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Re: Why are the CT's so obsessed with disproving the innocent Bus and Cab rides?
« Reply #116 on: September 02, 2021, 10:53:09 AM »
it's you who needs to explain why he said he saw Oswald at 12:30pm!

The explanation is obvious....  Whaley DID NOT see Lee Oswald dressed n a BLUE JACKET and BLUE trousers at 12:30 ....He saw another man but morphed that man into Lee Oswald.  Whaley simply lied to try to get his fellow cabbies attention.  We know that Lee was at the TSBD at 12:32, so he could not have been the man who Whaley transported to 500 N. Beckley.

Yeah Walt,

the point is - if Whaley is part of an organised hoax involving a cab ride for Oswald, if he is supposed to be telling a lie and if he is being coached by the inventors of the hoax (let's say the FBI for arguments sake), then how can he be getting it so tragically wrong.
People such as yourself and Otto believe the cab ride is a hoax and that Whaley must be part of that hoax. If that's the case why is Whaley undermining the hoax he is supposed to be a part of by stating he saw Oswald at a time when Oswald was still in the TSBD?
How can you explain that?

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Re: Why are the CT's so obsessed with disproving the innocent Bus and Cab rides?
« Reply #116 on: September 02, 2021, 10:53:09 AM »


Offline Dan O'meara

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Re: Why are the CT's so obsessed with disproving the innocent Bus and Cab rides?
« Reply #117 on: September 02, 2021, 10:57:45 AM »
Looks like we have a little sub-thread going, should be fun!

the fake manifest.

Do point out which parts are faked, thanks.

??
So you're saying the manifest is real but the cab ride for Oswald was fake.
You really need to explain that.
You're saying the agency perpetuating the BusCab Hoax picked Whaley because he happened to have a fare that went to Beckley at about the right time.
Surely you can't be saying the manifest is real but the cab ride is fake??

Offline John Mytton

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Re: Why are the CT's so obsessed with disproving the innocent Bus and Cab rides?
« Reply #118 on: September 02, 2021, 11:02:42 AM »
No problem, Walt  Thumb1:

BALL caught Fritz out:

Mr. BALL. Did you ever know a man named Roger Craig, a deputy sheriff?
Mr. FRITZ. Roger Craig, I might if I knew which one he was. Do we have it here?
Mr. BALL. He was a witness from whom you took a statement in your office or some of your men.
Mr. FRITZ. Some of my officers.
Mr. BALL. He is a deputy sheriff.
Mr. FRITZ. One deputy sheriff who started to talk to me but he was telling me some things that I knew wouldn't help us and I didn't talk to him but someone else took an affidavit from him. His story that he was telling didn't fit with what we knew to be true.
Mr. BALL. Roger Craig stated that about 15 minutes after the shooting he saw a man, a white man, leave the Texas State Book Depository Building, run across a lawn, and get into a white Rambler driven by a colored man.
Mr. FRITZ. I don't think that is true.
Mr. BALL. I am stating this. You remember the witness now?
Mr. FRITZ. I remember the witness; yes, sir.

Another dumb mistake by Fritz trying to BS his way out. In the very beginning of an investigation you don't dismiss leads like that unless......

The Dallas Police found a bus transfer on Oswald which had a crescent punch and was verified by the driver and Oswald admitted riding the bus. How is that a "Another dumb mistake by Fritz trying to BS his way out."?

Mr. BALL - What did they tell you?
Mr. McWATTERS - Well, they told me that they had a transfer that I had issued that was cut for Lamar Street at 1 o'clock, and they wanted to know if I knew anything about it. And I, after I looked at the transfer and my punch, said yes, that is the transfer I issued because it had my punch mark on it.





JohnM

Offline Dan O'meara

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Re: Why are the CT's so obsessed with disproving the innocent Bus and Cab rides?
« Reply #119 on: September 02, 2021, 11:35:44 AM »

This one's for Walt as I know Otto doesn't have the balls to answer this:





"A few minutes earlier he had begun to hear sirens and noticed a few blocks away that people were running about excitedly."

What do you think this is a reference to Walt?

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Re: Why are the CT's so obsessed with disproving the innocent Bus and Cab rides?
« Reply #119 on: September 02, 2021, 11:35:44 AM »