Sirhan Sirhan may be released tomorrow

[Charles Collins]

She conceded that there “may” have been a conspiracy. That’s kind of a big deal.

Not even Harris is as dismissive of the second shooter evidence as you and Richard are. Her argument was that there’s no point in having a new trial because Sirhan would still be guilty even if there was a conspiracy.

She conceded that there “may” have been a conspiracy. That’s kind of a big deal.

I don’t believe that she conceded anything. Where did you get the sentence that contains the word conceded? From a conspiracy book? Was it Harris’ word? If it was from a conspiracy book or news article the author chose to use the word conceded. And in that case it was, in my opinion, purposely chosen to be a misleading word. That is how those folks sell their works, playing on the emotions of the suseptable and trying to be sensational. So that is my opinion of your “big deal”.

[Jon Banks]

You misunderstand Harris' argument. She isn't conceding anything. She says that the existence of a second gunman, had there been one, would still not itself exonerate Sirhan. It's an 'even if we assume for the sake of argument....' thing. As the CNN article quoted her:

"Harris said that even if it could be proven 'that a second gunman successfully shot Senator Kennedy, (Sirhan) would still be guilty of the charged crimes.'"

The point is, she didn’t dismiss the new evidence or argue that “the case is solved.”

Sirhan’s new trial was denied due to it being considered a waste of time due to the fact that a conspiracy finding wouldn’t exonerate him. It wasn’t rejected due to a lack of legitimacy of the evidence of a second shooter.

[Richard Smith]

Kamala Harris denied a new trial for Sirhan years ago before she became a Senator.

You're asking why CA officials won't reopen a case that implicates themselves in a coverup of Bobby Kennedy's assassination?

What's the innocent explanation for destroying key evidence? And why would they discuss these matters if they don't have to?


• Prosecutors withheld the autopsy report from Sirhan’s defense lawyers until six weeks into the trial, showing that Kennedy had been shot at point-blank range from behind. Five other people in the hotel pantry standing behind Kennedy, including Schrade, were hit by bullets fired from in front of them.

• Police officers and FBI agents identified apparent bullet holes in two door frames of the pantry, indicating more than eight shots were fired. But no evidence of those holes was presented at trial, and the Los Angeles police destroyed the door frames shortly after the trial.

• The lead crime-scene investigator testified at trial that bullets from the wounded victims matched a bullet from Kennedy, but presented no photos or evidence to support that. When two ballistics experts examined the bullets after the trial, they found the bullets didn’t match. Subsequent investigations couldn’t match any of the bullets to Sirhan’s gun. The crime-scene investigator was subsequently criticized even by prosecutors for sloppy work in the case, by a judge for seeming perjury in another high-profile murder, and later suspended by his own police chief.

• Los Angeles police bullied or ignored witnesses whose stories did not match the lone gunman scenario, records show, particularly people who claimed they saw Sirhan with a dark-haired woman in a white polka-dot dress. Then at trial, prosecutors brought in a blonde-haired woman with a green polka-dot dress and claimed she was the mysterious woman in question. Sirhan’s lawyers, focusing on a mental health defense, did not challenge that, either.

https://aarclibrary.org/did-l-a-police-and-prosecutors-bungle-the-bobby-kennedy-assassination-probe/

The uber liberals running California today are protecting the conservative LAPD from five decades ago in the cover up of the murder of a liberal icon?  And you think someone got their gun within one inch of RFK's head amidst a large crowd of people and escaped unnoticed?  None of that adds up. 

[Jon Banks]

The uber liberals running California today are protecting the conservative LAPD from five decades ago in the cover up of the murder of a liberal icon?  And you think someone got their gun within one inch of RFK's head amidst a large crowd of people and escaped unnoticed?  None of that adds up.

Not sure what role partisan politics plays in this case.

The issue for LA officials is that the key person on the LAPD who was in charge of the evidence, DeWayne Wolfer, was involved in lots of cases. If it were confirmed that Wolfer lied or tampered with evidence, it would affect dozens of cases. That’s the sort of thing that discourages the LA officials from coming clean about his handling of the evidence even though it’s widely acknowledged today that Wolfer was corrupt. A judge stopped short of accusing Wolfer of perjury.

The corruption of the LAPD, especially the Ramparts precinct that handled the RFK investigation, has been well documented since the 1990s.

Most witnesses were focused on Sirhan who was in front of Kennedy or they were taking cover.

There ARE a few witnesses who saw the security guard who was behind Kennedy with a gun drawn (all shots that hit Kennedy came from behind). At least one witness said he saw the security guard fire the gun.

At Sirhan’s trial, one witness said he saw a gunman and could identify him if he saw him again but didn’t identify Sirhan as the gunman.

So yes, some witnesses DID see other potential shooters but they were either ignored or dismissed as wrong about their recollection.

[Walt Cakebread]

Not sure what role partisan politics plays in this case.

The issue for LA officials is that the key person on the LAPD who was in charge of the evidence, DeWayne Wolfer, was involved in lots of cases. If it were confirmed that Wolfer lied or tampered with evidence, it would affect dozens of cases. That’s the sort of thing that discourages the LA officials from coming clean about his handling of the evidence even though it’s widely acknowledged today that Wolfer was corrupt. A judge stopped short of accusing Wolfer of perjury.

The corruption of the LAPD, especially the Ramparts precinct that handled the RFK investigation, has been well documented since the 1990s.

Most witnesses were focused on Sirhan who was in front of Kennedy or they were taking cover.

There ARE a few witnesses who saw the security guard who was behind Kennedy with a gun drawn (all shots that hit Kennedy came from behind). At least one witness said he saw the security guard fire the gun.

At Sirhan’s trial, one witness said he saw a gunman and could identify him if he saw him again but didn’t identify Sirhan as the gunman.

So yes, some witnesses DID see other potential shooters but they were either ignored or dismissed as wrong about their recollection.

Hi Jon, I enjoy reading your posts, and I regard you as a very level headed researcher.     

I do believe that Sirhan was set up.....and he did not shoot RFK.     However the empty gun in his hand in the close proximity to the victim is a very difficult piece of evidence to cast aside.     If the conspirators had hypnotized or drugged Sirhan and set him up as the patsy  they would have made certain that there would have been another .22 caliber weapon disguised as some innocuous item , like a camera, to be certain that the deed would be done. ...but it would appear that sirhan was holding the murder weapon.         

[Jon Banks]

Hi Jon, I enjoy reading your posts, and I regard you as a very level headed researcher.     

I do believe that Sirhan was set up.....and he did not shoot RFK.     However the empty gun in his hand in the close proximity to the victim is a very difficult piece of evidence to cast aside.     If the conspirators had hypnotized or drugged Sirhan and set him up as the patsy  they would have made certain that there would have been another .22 caliber weapon disguised as some innocuous item , like a camera, to be certain that the deed would be done. ...but it would appear that sirhan was holding the murder weapon.       

I agree that Sirhan was caught with a hot gun in his hand. That’s why I admit that it’s difficult if not impossible to exonerate him. If there was a conspiracy, it can’t be argued that he wasn’t involved.

The problem since the 1970s has been that none of the bullets from the victims or crime scene have been positively identified to have come from his gun.

So not only was there evidence that more than 8 shots were fired, the experts who examined the ballistic evidence could never match Sirhan’s gun to the bullets:


The lead crime-scene investigator testified at trial that bullets from the wounded victims matched a bullet from Kennedy, but presented no photos or evidence to support that. When two ballistics experts examined the bullets after the trial, they found the bullets didn’t match. Subsequent investigations couldn’t match any of the bullets to Sirhan’s gun. The crime-scene investigator was subsequently criticized even by prosecutors for sloppy work in the case, by a judge for seeming perjury in another high-profile murder, and later suspended by his own police chief.
….
Wolfer testified that a bullet removed from Kennedy’s neck and a bullet removed from a wounded victim had come from Sirhan’s gun. But he did not submit any photos comparing the two bullets or keep any notes documenting his comparison, and the defense accepted his testimony without challenge. In 1970, when ballistics expert William Harper examined the bullets with a newly invented comparison camera, he found the bullets had not been fired from the same gun.

Soon two other ballistics experts also said the two bullets came from different guns. In 1975, a commission of seven experts was empaneled to review the ballistics, including refiring Sirhan’s gun. But Sirhan’s gun had deteriorated, and it couldn’t be determined whether it had fired either the Kennedy bullet or the wounded victim’s bullet. Later, it was determined that the bullet police submitted for the 1975 test as the Kennedy bullet was from another victim, not Kennedy.

If police had followed a trail of bullets from behind Kennedy’s right side, the person who was standing closest to him was an armed private-security guard, Thane Eugene Cesar. Cesar said he fell down as the shooting began, then pulled his .38-caliber gun but didn’t fire because Sirhan had already been captured. A news assistant for a local TV station, Don Schulman, gave a radio interview moments after the shooting and described Cesar firing back at Sirhan.

https://aarclibrary.org/did-l-a-police-and-prosecutors-bungle-the-bobby-kennedy-assassination-probe/

The RFK assassination hasn’t gotten as much attention as the JFK assassination but the evidence of conspiracy in RFK’s case seems overwhelming.

[Walt Cakebread]

I agree that Sirhan was caught with a hot gun in his hand. That’s why I admit that it’s difficult if not impossible to exonerate him. If there was a conspiracy, it can’t be argued that he wasn’t involved.

The problem since the 1970s has been that none of the bullets from the victims or crime scene have been positively identified to have come from his gun.

So not only was there evidence that more than 8 shots were fired, the experts who examined the ballistic evidence could never match Sirhan’s gun to the bullets:


The lead crime-scene investigator testified at trial that bullets from the wounded victims matched a bullet from Kennedy, but presented no photos or evidence to support that. When two ballistics experts examined the bullets after the trial, they found the bullets didn’t match. Subsequent investigations couldn’t match any of the bullets to Sirhan’s gun. The crime-scene investigator was subsequently criticized even by prosecutors for sloppy work in the case, by a judge for seeming perjury in another high-profile murder, and later suspended by his own police chief.
….
Wolfer testified that a bullet removed from Kennedy’s neck and a bullet removed from a wounded victim had come from Sirhan’s gun. But he did not submit any photos comparing the two bullets or keep any notes documenting his comparison, and the defense accepted his testimony without challenge. In 1970, when ballistics expert William Harper examined the bullets with a newly invented comparison camera, he found the bullets had not been fired from the same gun.

Soon two other ballistics experts also said the two bullets came from different guns. In 1975, a commission of seven experts was empaneled to review the ballistics, including refiring Sirhan’s gun. But Sirhan’s gun had deteriorated, and it couldn’t be determined whether it had fired either the Kennedy bullet or the wounded victim’s bullet. Later, it was determined that the bullet police submitted for the 1975 test as the Kennedy bullet was from another victim, not Kennedy.

If police had followed a trail of bullets from behind Kennedy’s right side, the person who was standing closest to him was an armed private-security guard, Thane Eugene Cesar. Cesar said he fell down as the shooting began, then pulled his .38-caliber gun but didn’t fire because Sirhan had already been captured. A news assistant for a local TV station, Don Schulman, gave a radio interview moments after the shooting and described Cesar firing back at Sirhan.

https://aarclibrary.org/did-l-a-police-and-prosecutors-bungle-the-bobby-kennedy-assassination-probe/

The RFK assassination hasn’t gotten as much attention as the JFK assassination but the evidence of conspiracy in RFK’s case seems overwhelming.

If Cesar had only the .38 caliber revolver then he couldn't possibly have shot RFK..... Because not only is the caliber wrong ( the wounds were created by a .22) but a .38 would have killed RFK instantly and a ,38 would have caused massive damage to his head.   

Incidentally the .22 caliber cartridge is a favored assassination  weapon....  Trained killers are taught to fire two quick shots into the victim's head from from behind an ear at close range....which is exactly how RFK was murdered...   IOW.....  The hit was not the work of someone like Siran, but the work of a professional killer. 

[Jon Banks]

If Cesar had only the .38 caliber revolver then he couldn't possibly have shot RFK..... Because not only is the caliber wrong ( the wounds were created by a .22) but a .38 would have killed RFK instantly and a ,38 would have caused massive damage to his head.   

Incidentally the .22 caliber cartridge is a favored assassination  weapon....  Trained killers are taught to fire two quick shots into the victim's head from from behind an ear at close range....which is exactly how RFK was murdered...   IOW.....  The hit was not the work of someone like Siran, but the work of a professional killer.

Cesar is viewed as a suspect because he was armed and closest to the location of Kennedy’s wounds (directly behind RFK). I don’t think the police ever checked to see if his gun matched any of the bullets collected from the crime scene or the victims.

But Cesar also lied about his ownership of a .22 caliber gun. He claimed to have sold it before RFK’s assassination but it turned out that he sold it months later. There have been inconsistencies in his account of his actions. RFK Jr believes Cesar is who killed his Dad.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7456521/Robert-F-Kennedy-assassinated-Thane-Eugene-Cesar-Sirhan-Sirhan-says-RFK-Jr.html

Michael Wayne is the other person who’s name frequently comes  up as a potential suspect. Not because he was seen with a gun but because he was behaving strangely before and after the assassination and it’s suspected that he collected Press passes and gave them to other suspects so they could get close to RFK.