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Author Topic: The lapel flip -- what did i miss?  (Read 24441 times)

Offline Bill Chapman

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Re: The lapel flip -- what did i miss?
« Reply #56 on: December 05, 2022, 07:10:12 PM »
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Oswald's shot-1 was at about pseudo Z113 – it ricocheted offa the overhead signal arm – lead splatter hit JFK on the head – the remnant slug put a hole in the floorpan of the limo.
Oswald's shot-2 was at about Z218 – the magic bullet.
Hickey's shot-1-2-3-4  (an accidental autoburst of his AR15) were at about Z298 to Z313 – wounding Tague -- & putting a dent in the chrome trim above the windshield -- & blowing JFK's head half off -- & cracking the windshield.
There were no other shots in Dealey Plaza.

Marjan, you're by far my favourite alien

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Re: The lapel flip -- what did i miss?
« Reply #56 on: December 05, 2022, 07:10:12 PM »


Offline Michael T. Griffith

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Re: The lapel flip -- what did i miss?
« Reply #57 on: December 05, 2022, 07:23:46 PM »
https://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/Lattimer.txt

One of the central assertions of the conspirati is that it would be
impossible for a single bullet to make as many wounds, hit as much
bone, and emerge as unscathed as CE399, the "magic bullet," is alleged
to have done. Harold Weisberg stated this view for the umpteenth time in
a letter to the Washington Post, January 11, 1992:

   It [is] a physical impossibility for this magic bullet [CE399]
   to have the imagined career indispensable to the lone-assassin
   "solution"...there is nothing like this career in science or
   mythology.

In "Conspiracy" (pp. 69-70), Anthony Summers repeats the assertion using
dissident pathologist Cyril Wecht for support:

   Above all, [Cyril Wecht] refuses to believe that a bullet could
   emerge almost intact after causing as much bone damage as was done
   to the Governor. To demonstrate this, Wecht points to the condition
   of Mannlicher-Carcano ammunition after firing into cotton wadding,
   a goat carcass--which sustained a broken rib--and through the wrist
   of a corpse. All the test bullets are visibly more damaged than the
   bullet alleged to have caused the wounds to the President and the
   Governor.  Wecht deplores the fact that the Assassinations
   Committee did not try to reproduce the "magic bullet" by performing
   similar tests and has challenged his colleagues to produce even
   *one* bullet that had emerged similarly undamaged.

Wecht's challenge has now been met by Dr. Lattimer. It has been proven
that a single bullet could make all the wounds and break all the bone
and emerge as relatively unscathed as CE399. Therefore, the long-held
assertion of the conspirati must now be completely discarded as evidence
of conspiracy. Lattimer's experiment is described in the following article:


[Excerpted from "Experimental Duplication of the Important Physical
Evidence of the Lapel Bulge of the Jacket Worn by Governor Connally
When Bullet 399 Went Through Him" by John K. Lattimer, M.D., et al,
in the Journal of the American College of Surgeons, May 1994. The
article describes an experiment which supplies the most complete
verification of the Single Bullet Theory yet performed.]

   The most important new piece of physical evidence in the
   analysis of the shooting of President Kennedy and Governor
   Connally has been the reaffirmation of the precise moment when
   bullet 399 [the so-called Magic Bullet] passed through the
   body of Governor Connally. This is graphically demonstrated
   in frame 224 of the Zapruder movie by the sudden forward
   bulge of the right lapel of the suit jacket of Governor
   Connally. This was clearly demonstrated by enhancement of
   the motion picture in the laboratories of Failure Analysis
   Inc., by Jeffrey Lotz in 1992.   
   ...
   
   Even running the Zapruder movie at an ordinary "slow motion,"
   rate, one does not appreciate the sudden forward "bulge" of
   the lapel. It is necessary to run the movie very slowly,
   "freezing" each frame for a moment, before the flap of the
   lapel and the bulging of the jacket become obvious. Photo
   enhancement makes it easier to see, once you know when and
   where it occurs. Having established this fact, it then becomes
   apparent that the right arms of both men react immediately and
   simultaneously to the stimulus of the bullet having passed
   through them. The arms of Kennedy start an upward jerk into
   Thorburn's reflex position and the right hand of Connally,
   containing his big white Stetson hat, begins to snap up into
   view as his biceps contract and he jerks his painful forearm
   up into the view of Zapruder's camera.
   
   ...
   
   REENACTMENT OF THE WOUNDING OF GOVERNOR CONNALLY (FRAME 224).  As
   with any study of small photographs (movie frames), it is desirable
   to try to verify the findings by duplicating the situation as
   closely as possible, using the exact same type of rifle,
   cartridges, clothing, necks, ribs and radiuses, as at Dallas. In an
   attempt to verify and study this phenomenon further, a duplication
   of President Kennedy's size 16 neck and of Governor Connally's
   chest and jacket were tested to see exactly what would happen. A
   size 16 neck simulation was created, using fresh pork muscle, with
   the bone removed and the skin still in place. A rack was prepared
   to hold a rib cage at a distance of 24 inches from the Kennedy
   neck. A white dress shirt and tropical worsted jacket were placed
   over the rib cage on a special rack. A necktie was tied in place to
   simulate the clothing Governor Connally wore at the time of the
   shooting in Dallas. An array of radiuses (arm bones), encased in
   simulated forearms, was arranged in front of the right lapel of
   Governor Connally and a bullet trap was mounted beyond this array.
   Bullets of the Western Cartridge Company 6.5 millimeter ammunition
   of the same lots used by Lee Harvey Oswald were fired from a
   Carcano carbine exactly like the one used by Oswald. We knew from
   our previous experiments [as described in Lattimer's book "Kennedy
   and Lincoln"] that our test bullets would almost certainly "tumble"
   and would strike our "Governor Connally back" at about the point
   where he was actually struck. Our test bullet also struck a rib
   (just as in Governor Connally), removing 4.5 centimeters of the rib
   and exited in the area that would have been under his right nipple.
   The flying fragments of rib, marrow and soft tissue, accompanying
   the exiting, tumbling bullet, caused a large ragged hole in the
   shirt and the jacket lining and plastered them with fragments of
   rib and soft tissue, just as in the Governor's instance. The bullet
   exited under the right lapel, still tumbling, making a 3 centimeter
   transverse bullet wound in the cloth. It then struck one of the
   forearms arrayed in front of the jacket. The bullet was captured in
   a bullet trap beyond this point. A videotape of the motion of the
   jacket was obtained, along with frames from a rapid-firing 35
   millimeter camera. These revealed that the jacket bulged out about
   6 inches and then snapped back. The lapel flipped over against the
   neck area. The forward motion of the bulging jacket was completed
   in 3/30th of a second, whereupon the backward snap began on our
   static model. This was completed by 16/30th of a second from the
   shot. After this, the jacket and lapel were again back in normal
   position.
While the rib and soft tissue fragments caused a large
   ragged wound in the shirt, just as described in Governor Connally's
   shirt, the exit hole of the bullet in the front of the jacket was
   elongated to a length of 3 centimeters (almost exactly the length
   of the tumbling bullet). The large shirt wound and the bulge of the
   jacket were more related to the hail of fragments of rib and soft
   tissue. The bullet then struck one of the radiuses mounted in front
   of the jacket. The bullet from this experiment was flattened on one
   side and bent from hitting the rib and radius while traveling
   sideways, just as bullet 399 was flattened and bent for the same
   reasons (399 is definitely not "pristine"). Lead extruded from the
   rear of our bullet as with bullet 399. The radius was fractured and
   tiny fragments of lead were left adherent to the periosteum,
   exactly as in Governor Connally. One of the most dependable
   features of this Kennedy and Connally mockup was the characteristic
   manner in which these Carcano bullets turned sideways (tumbled)
   after exiting the neck of Kennedy.
   
   THE BULLET MUST TRAVERSE THE NECK OF JOHN F. KENNEDY FIRST OR NO
   JACKET BULGE OCCURS. In an effort to determine what would happen if
   the bullet did *not* go through the neck of Kennedy first, but hit
   Connally primarily, we fired a bullet through our Connally jacket
   and thorax preparation without running it through the model of
   Kennedy's neck first, so it did not tumble. The jacket did *not*
   bulge out and the lapel did *not* turn over. The shirt collar
   flipped briefly. With the bullet going straight ahead, wounds to
   the rib, shirt and jacket were punctate and the rib fragments
   were not enough to bulge out the front of the jacket. This made
   it seem even more likely that bullet 399 had gone through the
   neck of President Kennedy first, turned sideways and caused the
   very obvious jacket and lapel distortions, which we have
   recorded herein and which occur in frame 224. If the bullet did
   *not* go through the neck of Kennedy first, the jacket bulge and
   lapel flap did *not* occur.
   
   SUMMARY
   
   By duplicating the wound to the neck of President Kennedy, which
   caused bullet 399 to turn sideways, and having it *then* hit a
   Connally-type rib cage with shirt and jacket, we reproduced the
   right-sided bulge of the jacket worn by Connally, with lapel
   eversion, which is so significant in frame 224. The extensive
   damage to his shirtfront was from the hail of rib fragments and
   soft tissue, exactly as described with his own shirt. Our tumbling
   bullet then went on to fracture a radius and be recovered intact
   except that it was somewhat flattened and bent and had lead
   extruded from the rear, as did bullet 399. Fragments of this lead
   were scraped off on the ragged bone-ends of some of our fractured
   radiuses, just as with Governor Connally's radius. It is believed
   that this duplication of the jacket and lapel bulge of Governor
   Connally, which occurred dependably, when we reproduced the
   circumstances at Dallas, confirmed this very important detail in
   this technical demonstration of the findings in the shooting of
   President Kennedy and Governor Connally.
   
   The bulge and the lapel eversion of the jacket worn by Governor
   Connally, starting in Zapruder frame 224, does indeed establish,
   beyond any shadow of a doubt, the exact moment when bullet 399 went
   through him. The right arms of both men were seen to react
   simultaneously, immediately thereafter. It also permits us to
   establish that there was plenty of time (three and one-half
   seconds) between the first two shots (frames 160 to 224) and even
   more time (five seconds) between the last two shots (frames 224 to
   313), for Oswald to reload, reacquire the target (the head of
   President Kennedy) plus two full seconds to lock onto it. If the
   bullet does not traverse the neck of President Kennedy, it does not
   cause Governor Connally's jacket and lapel to bulge. The lapel
   bulge is a very important bit of actual physical evidence in
   establishing the fact that one bullet hit both men and that Oswald
   had plenty of time to hit the President, first in the neck and then
   in the head. These experiments confirm the mechanism of the lapel
   bulge and the behavior of the bullet.

Folks, be advised that Lattimer's claims about his SBT reenactment are bogus and were exposed as such years ago, as I have discussed in other threads. A picture of one of Lattimer's test bullets shows it was split at the nose in several places and was markedly deformed, much more deformed than CE 399. When Stewart Galanor asked Lattimer, in a filmed interview, if he could examine the bullets that struck all three simulation objects, Lattimer said he had thrown them away (Galanor, Cover-Up, New York: Kestrel Books, 1998, p. 42).

An AAT wound ballistics test directed by Dr. Wecht, which included animal bones inside a large gelatin block, proved that merely striking the wrist bone would have caused substantial deformity in the bullet.

We now know, thanks to the ARRB materials and other sources, that the back wound had no exit point. This was absolutely, categorically established at the autopsy, and that's one reason that Humes had to burn the first two drafts of the autopsy report.

Also, as several doctors have established with overlays on x-rays, using technology that was unavailable in the 1960s, there was no path from the back wound to the throat wound without smashing through part of the spine.

I might that Dr. Jones and Dr. Crenshaw independently confirmed Dr. Carrico's account that the throat wound was above the tie knot, which means, among other things, that the slits in JFK's shirt were made by the nurses as they hurried cut away JFK's clothing. This is why the slits are irregular, have no fabric missing from them, and contained no metallic traces when the FBI lab tested them. This is also why there is no hole through the tie knot (but only a small nick on the left side of the knot, and the nick is not on the edge of the knot).
« Last Edit: December 05, 2022, 07:29:13 PM by Michael T. Griffith »

Offline Jerry Organ

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Re: The lapel flip -- what did i miss?
« Reply #58 on: December 05, 2022, 08:07:31 PM »
Using the Jerry Organ school of reasoning it's clear that Mr. Griffith is wrong because Ben Carson said something about Covid. Also Fox News. And Trump.

I knew you were a closet Trump supporter. Griffith and you should compare Far-Right positions.

Surprise though that you thought Mantik was not a quack; it follows, then, that you think his JFK OD claims are credible.

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Re: The lapel flip -- what did i miss?
« Reply #58 on: December 05, 2022, 08:07:31 PM »


Offline Marjan Rynkiewicz

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Re: The lapel flip -- what did i miss?
« Reply #59 on: December 05, 2022, 08:10:08 PM »
Folks, be advised that Lattimer's claims about his SBT reenactment are bogus and were exposed as such years ago, as I have discussed in other threads. A picture of one of Lattimer's test bullets shows it was split at the nose in several places and was markedly deformed, much more deformed than CE 399. When Stewart Galanor asked Lattimer, in a filmed interview, if he could examine the bullets that struck all three simulation objects, Lattimer said he had thrown them away (Galanor, Cover-Up, New York: Kestrel Books, 1998, p. 42).

An AAT wound ballistics test directed by Dr. Wecht, which included animal bones inside a large gelatin block, proved that merely striking the wrist bone would have caused substantial deformity in the bullet.

We now know, thanks to the ARRB materials and other sources, that the back wound had no exit point. This was absolutely, categorically established at the autopsy, and that's one reason that Humes had to burn the first two drafts of the autopsy report.

Also, as several doctors have established with overlays on x-rays, using technology that was unavailable in the 1960s, there was no path from the back wound to the throat wound without smashing through part of the spine.

I might that Dr. Jones and Dr. Crenshaw independently confirmed Dr. Carrico's account that the throat wound was above the tie knot, which means, among other things, that the slits in JFK's shirt were made by the nurses as they hurried cut away JFK's clothing. This is why the slits are irregular, have no fabric missing from them, and contained no metallic traces when the FBI lab tested them. This is also why there is no hole through the tie knot (but only a small nick on the left side of the knot, and the nick is not on the edge of the knot).
Lattimer said that some of his 1994 slugs had nose damage from the metal walls of his bullet trap.
There have been other test re-enactments of the SBT that show little damage to the slug.

JFK's spine was indeed badly injured -- jfk (had he survived the magic bullet) would have been a quadriplegic.
Here are 4 pages from Mortal Error -- by Menninger -- re Donahue's investigation.



 

« Last Edit: September 08, 2023, 02:14:52 AM by Marjan Rynkiewicz »

Offline Michael T. Griffith

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Re: The lapel flip -- what did i miss?
« Reply #60 on: December 05, 2022, 10:41:04 PM »
Lattimer said that some of his 1994 slugs had nose damage from the metal walls of his bullet trap. There have been other test re-enactments of the SBT that show little damage to the slug.

One, I repeat the point that ARRB materials prove that the autopsy doctors absolutely, positively established that the back wound had no exit point during the autopsy. Several recent books discuss this historic evidence, and I've presented some of it in this forum. We now know that the first two drafts of the autopsy report said nothing about a buillet exiting the throat.

Two, Lattimer's claim that some of his test bullets were damaged by his bullet trap is unbelievable and suspicious.

Three, why did Lattimer throw away the bullets that he claimed penetrated all three simulation objects? This smells to high heaven of fraud.

Four, no valid SBT simulations have produced bullets that look like CE 399 after doing the required amount of damage. The WC's own extensive wound ballistics tests failed to do so, as we know from the man who conducted those tests, Dr. Joseph Dolce. The ATT partial SBT simulation did not even produce such a bullet--the bullet went through two objects (gelatin and animal bone) and emerged much more deformed than CE 399.

JFK's spine was indeed badly injured -- jfk (had he survived the magic bullet) would have been a quadriplegic. Here are 4 pages from Mortal Error -- by Meninger -- re Donahue's investigation.

I take it you are rather new to the JFK case. Most of your fellow lone-gunman theorists reject the idea that JFK's spine was damaged, because this would render impossible their silly neuromuscular-reaction theory for explaining JFK's fierce backward motion after the head shot.

I actually agree that JFK's spine was damaged, but it was not nearly as damaged as it would have been if a bullet had gone from the back wound to the throat wound. Some of the autopsy x-rays do indeed show fragments in the neck and damage to the spine; this damage was caused by the projectile that entered the throat and by the bullet (or fragment) that penetrated about 2 inches into the back. Again, if a bullet had gone from the back wound to the throat wound, even if you assume an entry point at T1, the damage to the spine would have been far more extensive.

If CT scans had been available in the 1960s, CE 399's alleged trajectory would have been recognized as impossible. Dr. Mantik explains the problem in his new book:

Quote
The problem, as I have demonstrated in Figure 11, is that CT scans were not available in 1963—or this fantasized trajectory would have been dead on arrival.

If this trajectory is valid, the bullet would either have struck a vertebral body (as it does in figure 11), or if traveling between vertebral bodies (e.g., at a higher or lower level), it would have punctured the lung, which did not occur. The trajectory of the Magic Bullet is also very unlikely in the vertical plane—the throat wound is far too superior [high/above] to represent an exit for the back wound (which is near T1—or possibly even lower). In particular, the throat wound lay just above the necktie, which is far above T1. Also recall that the bullet, presumably from a Mannlicher-Carcano on the sixth floor of the TSBD, was traveling downward. (JFK Assassination Paradoxes, p. 10)

To get the full impact of Dr. Mantik's point, one needs to view the CT scans that he provides.

« Last Edit: December 05, 2022, 10:42:37 PM by Michael T. Griffith »

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Re: The lapel flip -- what did i miss?
« Reply #60 on: December 05, 2022, 10:41:04 PM »


Offline Jerry Organ

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Re: The lapel flip -- what did i miss?
« Reply #61 on: December 05, 2022, 11:05:45 PM »
Folks, be advised that Lattimer's claims about his SBT reenactment are bogus and were exposed as such years ago, as I have discussed in other threads. A picture of one of Lattimer's test bullets shows it was split at the nose in several places and was markedly deformed, much more deformed than CE 399. When Stewart Galanor asked Lattimer, in a filmed interview, if he could examine the bullets that struck all three simulation objects, Lattimer said he had thrown them away (Galanor, Cover-Up, New York: Kestrel Books, 1998, p. 42).

An AAT wound ballistics test directed by Dr. Wecht, which included animal bones inside a large gelatin block, proved that merely striking the wrist bone would have caused substantial deformity in the bullet.

Wecht probably just had bullets fired that arrived at the impact site nose-on and at full-velocity. Those will disintegrate and mushroom. But the SBT has the bullet that caused Connally's wounds slow-downed and tumbling. The 2004 program "Beyond the Magic Bullet" had a Carcano bullet (fired from a distance and elevation similar to the SBT scenario) pass through soft-tissue (similar to the amount of Kennedy's neck; though the bullet struck a little low):


The slowing-down and tumbling (along with more as the bullet went through the "Connally" torso) resulted in a bullet that, having struck two hard tissue obstructions, was similar to CE399.

Quote
We now know, thanks to the ARRB materials and other sources, that the back wound had no exit point. This was absolutely, categorically established at the autopsy, and that's one reason that Humes had to burn the first two drafts of the autopsy report.

The initial belief at autopsy that the back wound had no exit (though it bothered the pathologists at the time) didn't come out of the ARRB hearings. It was recorded in the 1963 Silbert-O'Neill Report, made by two FBI agents present at the autopsy. Humes revised the Autopsy Report over the weekend after a phone conservation with Dr. Perry of Parkland Hospital.

Quote
Also, as several doctors have established with overlays on x-rays, using technology that was unavailable in the 1960s, there was no path from the back wound to the throat wound without smashing through part of the spine.



The bullet can easily pass from the back wound to the neck outshoot without striking bone. The missile channel will cause a great deal of pressure; in this case, there was bruising across the top of the right lung. The T1 transverse process had a non-displaced fracture, possibly caused by the passing of the bullet.

Quote
I might that Dr. Jones and Dr. Crenshaw independently confirmed Dr. Carrico's account that the throat wound was above the tie knot, which means, among other things, that the slits in JFK's shirt were made by the nurses as they hurried cut away JFK's clothing. This is why the slits are irregular, have no fabric missing from them, and contained no metallic traces when the FBI lab tested them.

 
A neck wound above the shirt collar wouldn't match the wound location shown in the autopsy photo.

Quote
This is also why there is no hole through the tie knot (but only a small nick on the left side of the knot, and the nick is not on the edge of the knot).

 

Robert Prudhomme CT Version
 

David Von Pein Version


Bullet holes in Kennedy's shirt; compare with
nick site in Prudhomme and Von Pein Versions
 

In the motorcade, was the tie
knot slightly off to the left?
 

Offline Michael T. Griffith

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Re: The lapel flip -- what did i miss?
« Reply #62 on: December 05, 2022, 11:40:32 PM »
Wecht probably just had bullets fired that arrived at the impact site nose-on and at full-velocity. Those will disintegrate and mushroom.

No, they used an FMJ bullet.

Plus, the front-shirt slits have no fabric missing and tested negative for any traces of metal when the FBI tested them, and we now know that the autopsy absolutely established that the back wound had no exit point and that the first two drafts of the autopsy report said nothing about a bullet exiting the throat.

Quote
But the SBT has the bullet that caused Connally's wounds slow-downed and tumbling.

Which is absurd. The throat wound was small and punched in, and the entry wound in Connally's back was the same length as JFK's rear head entry wound (1.5 cm) and only 0.2 cm taller. No one suggests that the rear-head-entry-wound bullet was "tumbling." No, it simply entered the skull at an angle, just as did the bullet that struck Connally's back.

Plus, the front-shirt slits have no fabric missing and tested negative for any traces of metal when the FBI tested them, and we now know that the autopsy absolutely established that the back wound had no exit point and that the first two drafts of the autopsy report said nothing about a bullet exiting the throat.

Quote
The slowing-down and tumbling (along with more as the bullet went through the "Connally" torso) resulted in a bullet that, having struck two hard tissue obstructions, was similar to CE399.

Hogwash. The WC's wound ballistics tests destroyed the SBT.

Quote
The initial belief at autopsy that the back wound had no exit (though it bothered the pathologists at the time) didn't come out of the ARRB hearings. It was recorded in the 1963 Silbert-O'Neill Report, made by two FBI agents present at the autopsy. Humes revised the Autopsy Report over the weekend after a phone conservation with Dr. Perry of Parkland Hospital.

You're misleading people again. The ARRB materials strongly confirm the Sibert-O'Neill report, as does Dr. Canada's posthumously published interview with Dr. Kurtz. As you well know, since I just proved this to you a few days ago, Sibert and O'Neill provided important additional information on the back-wound and its probing in their ARRB interviews. Why didn't you mention that?

Plus, the front-shirt slits have no fabric missing and tested negative for any traces of metal when the FBI tested them, and we now know that the autopsy absolutely established that the back wound had no exit point and that the first two drafts of the autopsy report said nothing about a bullet exiting the throat.

Quote
The bullet can easily pass from the back wound to the neck outshoot without striking bone. The missile channel will cause a great deal of pressure; in this case, there was bruising across the top of the right lung. The T1 transverse process had a non-displaced fracture, possibly caused by the passing of the bullet.

Nonsense and distortion. You are mischaracterizing the damage and the bruising. Look at Dr. Mantik's CT scans.

Plus, the front-shirt slits have no fabric missing and tested negative for any traces of metal when the FBI tested them, and we now know that the autopsy absolutely established that the back wound had no exit point and that the first two drafts of the autopsy report said nothing about a bullet exiting the throat.

Quote
A neck wound above the shirt collar wouldn't match the wound location shown in the autopsy photo.

You know this is wrong. We've been through this before. Any number of photos of JFK wearing a shirt and tie show that you are wrong. Why do you keep repeating claims that you know are false?

Plus, the front-shirt slits have no fabric missing and tested negative for any traces of metal when the FBI tested them, and we now know that the autopsy absolutely established that the back wound had no exit point and that the first two drafts of the autopsy report said nothing about a bullet exiting the throat.

Quote
In the motorcade, was the tie knot slightly off to the left?

The tie knot would have had to be off center by a lot more than "slightly" for the bullet to avoid going through it or to avoid nicking one of its edges. The FBI fought tooth and nail to avoid releasing the evidence photos of the tie, but Weisberg finally got them, and they destroy the SBT, but you folks just won't admit it.

Furthermore, the front shirt slits are clearly below where the tie knot would have been.

Plus, the front-shirt slits have no fabric missing and tested negative for any traces of metal when the FBI tested them, and we now know that the autopsy absolutely established that the back wound had no exit point and that the first two drafts of the autopsy report said nothing about a bullet exiting the throat.


« Last Edit: December 05, 2022, 11:46:23 PM by Michael T. Griffith »

Offline Marjan Rynkiewicz

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Re: The lapel flip -- what did i miss?
« Reply #63 on: December 06, 2022, 12:01:03 AM »
One, I repeat the point that ARRB materials prove that the autopsy doctors absolutely, positively established that the back wound had no exit point during the autopsy. Several recent books discuss this historic evidence, and I've presented some of it in this forum. We now know that the first two drafts of the autopsy report said nothing about a buillet exiting the throat.

Two, Lattimer's claim that some of his test bullets were damaged by his bullet trap is unbelievable and suspicious.

Three, why did Lattimer throw away the bullets that he claimed penetrated all three simulation objects? This smells to high heaven of fraud.

Four, no valid SBT simulations have produced bullets that look like CE 399 after doing the required amount of damage. The WC's own extensive wound ballistics tests failed to do so, as we know from the man who conducted those tests, Dr. Joseph Dolce. The ATT partial SBT simulation did not even produce such a bullet--the bullet went through two objects (gelatin and animal bone) and emerged much more deformed than CE 399.

I take it you are rather new to the JFK case. Most of your fellow lone-gunman theorists reject the idea that JFK's spine was damaged, because this would render impossible their silly neuromuscular-reaction theory for explaining JFK's fierce backward motion after the head shot.

I actually agree that JFK's spine was damaged, but it was not nearly as damaged as it would have been if a bullet had gone from the back wound to the throat wound. Some of the autopsy x-rays do indeed show fragments in the neck and damage to the spine; this damage was caused by the projectile that entered the throat and by the bullet (or fragment) that penetrated about 2 inches into the back. Again, if a bullet had gone from the back wound to the throat wound, even if you assume an entry point at T1, the damage to the spine would have been far more extensive.

If CT scans had been available in the 1960s, CE 399's alleged trajectory would have been recognized as impossible. Dr. Mantik explains the problem in his new book:

To get the full impact of Dr. Mantik's point, one needs to view the CT scans that he provides.
Wesley Fisk & Dr Alex Krstik & Chris Leigh & David King of Adelaide based "Anatomical Surrogate Technology"  looked into the magic bullet in 2004.  I can't find a paper or report. Their slug had similar damage to CE399 & Lattimer's slug.  There are 3 youtube footages. The main footage is….
JFK Beyond The Magic Bullet (2004) 14,462 views Dec 18, 2018    Nalinho 131 subscribers
Unsolved History is history the way it was, Through detailed examination of archeological and forensic evidence, existing photographs, authentic artifacts, and carefully selected interviews from eyewitnesses and experts - events are reconstructed and historical questions are finally answered. Join the investigators of Unsolved History for a final, definitive look at the assassination of President Kennedy in this special, extended episode. After 40 years of heated debates and accusations, the physical evidence that remains from that day in Dallas is all that can be objectively examined. Watch as experts scrutinize film footage and authentic photos taken the day of the assassination for uncovered clues. The alleged assassin's timeline is broken down to the nearest minute to show where he was at the time of the shooting - and whether or not the "accepted" version of Oswald's plot holds true. Listen in on an obscure audio recording that may shed light on the identity of the true triggerman and examine Exhibit #399 - the so-called "magic bullet," the most controversial piece of evidence. It's an in-depth examination of the unanswered questions, conspiracy theories and physical evidence behind the shots that changed history.


JFK Assassination Forum

Re: The lapel flip -- what did i miss?
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