Mark Bell Mark Bell -- where were thou?

[Marjan Rynkiewicz]

The document that you cited specifically says that no hole was found in the limo floor.

Yes, the SS did not see a hole, & the FBI did not see a hole, in November.
But Detroit/Cincinnati saw a hole in December, after removing the carpet etc.
Then in 1964 the FBI did not look for a hole (they merely asked the SS about the hole)(& the SS said there was no hole).
And we can say that the SS either did not look for a hole, or, if the SS did look & find a hole, they kept the hole a secret (& denied its existence).
I could not find a copy of that Dec 63 magazine or article. Did it include a pix of the hole.
The hole is probly still there -- under the new plating -- at the Ford museum -- if anyone cares to look.
U would need to raise the limo -- & look up around the driveshaft -- the hole is on the centerline -- the driveshaft might have a ding too.
I guess that the President's Commission (ie the WC) did not pursue this reported hole.
I am not sure at what date the WC & Co decided that Oswald's first shot missed -- at which time the hole would of course have been welcome -- but producing the hole at that late date would have risked the uncovering of their history of lieing -- no, not worth it.
And, for some reason, Robin Unger refuses to show the pix of the hole, & a pix of the FBI internal memo, in his photo gallery.
Even tho the hole does not contradict his favorit theory that Oswald fired 3 shots including the fatal headshot.
The hole is not nice & round -- hence it confirms the ricochet offa the (western guyrod of the) signal arm.

[Andrew Mason]

Yes, the SS did not see a hole, & the FBI did not see a hole, in November.
But Detroit/Cincinnati saw a hole in December, after removing the carpet etc.

It is odd that there would be a hole in the floor but not in the carpet.  So is your theory that someone shot him from below? 

[Marjan Rynkiewicz]

It is odd that there would be a hole in the floor but not in the carpet.  So is your theory that someone shot him from below?

Yes -- i had forgotten about that -- the old carpet will hav a hole -- but i suppose that the bloodstained carpet was burnt or went into the rubbish dump on or about 23 Nov 63.
I dont know whether carpet tween the jump seats (which is where the hole is/was) was a separate piece to the bloody carpet at the back seat.

[Andrew Mason]

Yes -- i had forgotten about that -- the old carpet will hav a hole -- but i suppose that the bloodstained carpet was burnt or went into the rubbish dump on or about 23 Nov 63.
I dont know whether carpet tween the jump seats (which is where the hole is/was) was a separate piece to the bloody carpet at the back seat.

Here is a photo taken in the White House garage on the evening of Nov 22/63:



It shows two separate pieces of carpet.  Do you really think that the agents who pored over the car would have missed a bullet hole in the floor?

[Marjan Rynkiewicz]

Here is a photo taken in the White House garage on the evening of Nov 22/63:
It shows two separate pieces of carpet.  Do you really think that the agents who pored over the car would have missed a bullet hole in the floor?

Do u really think that the boss-agent who got a report from the agents who saw a bullet hole in the floor would have gone running to the police & reporters & (gasping for oxygen), would have blurted ---
"there's a gasp gasp bullet hole in the gasp gasp floor".

This is the same boss-agent who told Hickey to keep the 6 hot AR15 casings in his pocket (they could smell the casings at the hozzie)(plus they could smell the AR15 at the hozzie).
This is the same boss-agent who told his agents to keep quiet re shot-1 being at the signals at Z113 (a very early shot makes the SS look even worse).
And re Hickey's accidental auto burst of say 6 shots (Powers did not ever deny that he heard the deafening AR15 shots just inches from his left earhole).
And re the big dent in the chrome trim above the mirror (in fact the boss-agent said that the dent was already there from an accident many moons before).
And (at first) re the cracked windshield & the bits of lead on the glass at the center of the cracks.
This is the same boss-agent who snatched Jfk's body -- & jfk's brain -- & jfk photos -- but somehow wasnt concerned about anyone finding out about the hole in the limo floor.

Whatshisname from Ford, who replaced the carpet, would have seen the hole in the carpet & the hole in the floor.
And, he would ordinarily have kept the bloody carpet for his own private collection.
But, he did not keep the carpet (koz he woz not allowed) -- which suggests that there was indeed a hole.
And, the replacing of the carpet, rather than simply cleaning it (either in-situ or ex-situ), suggests a hole.

[Andrew Mason]

Do u really think that the boss-agent who got a report from the agents who saw a bullet hole in the floor would have gone running to the police & reporters & (gasping for oxygen), would have blurted ---
"there's a gasp gasp bullet hole in the gasp gasp floor".

This is the same boss-agent who told Hickey to keep the 6 hot AR15 casings in his pocket (they could smell the casings at the hozzie)(plus they could smell the AR15 at the hozzie).
This is the same boss-agent who told his agents to keep quiet re shot-1 being at the signals at Z113 (a very early shot makes the SS look even worse).
And re Hickey's accidental auto burst of say 6 shots (Powers did not ever deny that he heard the deafening AR15 shots just inches from his left earhole).
And re the big dent in the chrome trim above the mirror (in fact the boss-agent said that the dent was already there from an accident many moons before).
And (at first) re the cracked windshield & the bits of lead on the glass at the center of the cracks.
This is the same boss-agent who snatched Jfk's body -- & jfk's brain -- & jfk photos -- but somehow wasnt concerned about anyone finding out about the hole in the limo floor.

Whatshisname from Ford, who replaced the carpet, would have seen the hole in the carpet & the hole in the floor.
And, he would ordinarily have kept the bloody carpet for his own private collection.
But, he did not keep the carpet (koz he woz not allowed) -- which suggests that there was indeed a hole.
And, the replacing of the carpet, rather than simply cleaning it (either in-situ or ex-situ), suggests a hole.

I see.  Sorry, I thought we were discussing evidence.

[Marjan Rynkiewicz]

I see.  Sorry, I thought we were discussing evidence.

The absence of evidence is evidence.
The absence of the carpet supports my theory that there was a hole in the carpet.
As it turns out, years later, there was no need to get rid of the carpet, koz by then the FBI & Co were happy to admit that Oswald's first shot missed jfk, & a hole in the carpet & the floorpan did not spoil their lies.

[Andrew Mason]

The absence of evidence is evidence.

Where did you get that idea? Let's see where that takes us.  You have no evidence that I am not Superman. Does that mean I can fly?  There is no evidence of a hole in the carpet. Therefore, there was a hole in the carpet.

The absence of the carpet supports my theory that there was a hole in the carpet.
As it turns out, years later, there was no need to get rid of the carpet, koz by then the FBI & Co were happy to admit that Oswald's first shot missed jfk, & a hole in the carpet & the floorpan did not spoil their lies.

As I said, I thought we were discussing evidence.  I am not interested in discussing your conjecture and fantasy