Users Currently Browsing This Topic:
0 Members

Author Topic: 3D Modeling  (Read 40738 times)

Offline Jerry Organ

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2414
Re: 3D Modeling
« Reply #160 on: July 07, 2024, 12:13:43 AM »
Advertisement
My only input is about a trivial detail - the sun visors seem a bit off in the model.
Other than that it seems fairly amazing from a layman's point of view.
Thanks, Dan. The top of the parade bar (with the handholds) is quite high, also. I think the Croft Photo has less pin-cushion effect than the Love Field photo. The seat-back needs raising and a 1/4" nudge forward.

JFK Assassination Forum

Re: 3D Modeling
« Reply #160 on: July 07, 2024, 12:13:43 AM »


Offline Jerry Organ

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2414
Re: 3D Modeling
« Reply #161 on: July 07, 2024, 11:24:20 PM »


OK, I lowered the top of the parade bar and the visors, and raised and nudged forward the top of the seat-back. I know the parade bar and visors are not matching, but I'll leave it for now until we can see how those items look in other photos.

Offline Jerry Organ

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2414
Re: 3D Modeling
« Reply #162 on: July 27, 2024, 01:47:01 PM »
The New York Times (among others) have done rudimentary 3D reconstructions of the Trump Shooting. This just came out yesterday.



https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2024/07/23/us/trump-shooting-gunman-snipers.html

Among other things, the sniper's line-of-sight was very limited and the general area where David Dutch was wounded was in line with where Trump stood.

The Times also did a very good analysis of the video/audio record.

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/07/26/us/politics/trump-shooter-bullet-trajectory-ear.html



In sync with the audio, Trump's right hand is reacting (or being made to react by God) between the sounds of the first and second shots, meaning he was struck with the first shot. Also in sync with the audio, this video shows the first bullet caused debris in an object near the bleachers. The second bullet then caused Dutch, who thankfully is recovering and out of hospital, to react.

I would bet this will end up being the "official line". The Times also backed the "official" findings in 1964. See how it plays out this time.

JFK Assassination Forum

Re: 3D Modeling
« Reply #162 on: July 27, 2024, 01:47:01 PM »


Online Charles Collins

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3792
Re: 3D Modeling
« Reply #163 on: July 27, 2024, 02:05:49 PM »
The New York Times (among others) have done rudimentary 3D reconstructions of the Trump Shooting. This just came out yesterday.



https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2024/07/23/us/trump-shooting-gunman-snipers.html

Among other things, the sniper's line-of-sight was very limited and the general area where David Dutch was wounded was in line with where Trump stood.

The Times also did a very good analysis of the video/audio record.

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/07/26/us/politics/trump-shooter-bullet-trajectory-ear.html



In sync with the audio, Trump's right hand is reacting (or being made to react by God) between the sounds of the first and second shots, meaning he was struck with the first shot. Also in sync with the audio, this video shows the first bullet caused debris in an object near the bleachers. The second bullet then caused Dutch, who thankfully is recovering and out of hospital, to react.

I would bet this will end up being the "official line". The Times also backed the "official" findings in 1964. See how it plays out this time.


Thanks, I will check these out. I really haven’t paid this the amount of attention that it deserves. But I think there should be some comparisons with the JFK assassination that might be interesting and relevant. For example, the reaction time of the secret service agents and other protective personnel after the first shot. Have you seen any analysis of the reaction times?

Edit: The linked NYT articles require signing in (or at least giving them an email address and hoping the articles are available for free). I despise these tactics and refuse to comply.
« Last Edit: July 27, 2024, 02:12:18 PM by Charles Collins »

Offline Steve M. Galbraith

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1500
Re: 3D Modeling
« Reply #164 on: July 27, 2024, 03:54:40 PM »

Thanks, I will check these out. I really haven’t paid this the amount of attention that it deserves. But I think there should be some comparisons with the JFK assassination that might be interesting and relevant. For example, the reaction time of the secret service agents and other protective personnel after the first shot. Have you seen any analysis of the reaction times?

Edit: The linked NYT articles require signing in (or at least giving them an email address and hoping the articles are available for free). I despise these tactics and refuse to comply.
Where would the teleprompter be in the line of sight from the sniper? I don't see it. As you know one claim/theory is that the bullet shattered the teleprompter glass/plastic (whatever it was made of) and it was a shard/piece of that that struck him. Not a bullet. Although photos of that teleprompter after the shooting apparently show it was undamaged.

That seems to be the source of the controversy, i.e., whether it was a bullet or a piece of glass/shrapnel.
« Last Edit: July 27, 2024, 03:56:45 PM by Steve M. Galbraith »

JFK Assassination Forum

Re: 3D Modeling
« Reply #164 on: July 27, 2024, 03:54:40 PM »


Online Charles Collins

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3792
Re: 3D Modeling
« Reply #165 on: July 27, 2024, 04:04:43 PM »
Where would the teleprompter be in the line of sight from the sniper? I don't see it. As you know one claim/theory is that the bullet shattered the teleprompter glass/plastic (whatever it was made of) and it was a shard/piece of that that struck him. Not a bullet. Although photos of that teleprompter after the shooting apparently show it was undamaged.

That seems to be the source of the controversy, i.e., whether it was a bullet or a piece of glass/shrapnel.


Interesting, however I don’t see a teleprompter in the photo. And I would expect more than one piece of glass/shrapnel would show up in the photo if it was that.


Offline Jerry Organ

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2414
Re: 3D Modeling
« Reply #166 on: July 27, 2024, 04:07:28 PM »

Thanks, I will check these out. I really haven’t paid this the amount of attention that it deserves. But I think there should be some comparisons with the JFK assassination that might be interesting and relevant. For example, the reaction time of the secret service agents and other protective personnel after the first shot. Have you seen any analysis of the reaction times?

Edit: The linked NYT articles require signing in (or at least giving them an email address and hoping the articles are available for free). I despise these tactics and refuse to comply.

I must have gotten into a free daily read. I was using a Private Window in Firefox. You can access the full text of the NYT 3D page by using "Reader Mode" (in Firefox, it's a page-like icon inside the address bar). The NYT Video/Audio Analysis page didn't work as well in "Reader Mode".

Here's parts of the Times' 3D page recreated.

How the Trump Rally Gunman Had an Edge Over the Countersnipers
     (snip)



What Secret Service Countersnipers on the North Barn Saw

This is the line of sight that one of two Secret Service teams most likely had just minutes before Mr. Crooks opened fire.


Roof view
 
Close-up
     (snip)

The gunman was largely concealed by two trees and the slope of a warehouse building roof, which he used as his perch.
     (snip)

The Times captured its own drone footage three days after the shooting. This footage provides a glimpse into how much the trees might have impaired the countersnipers’ view of the gunman.


   Note: This video was captured about seven feet above
   the roof where a countersniper team was positioned
   atop the northern barn. The location of the gunman
   was identified by a cone that is visible between the tree
   branches, where it was placed by investigators after the
   shooting.

     (snip)



What Secret Service Countersnipers on the South Barn Saw

A second Secret Service countersniper team was positioned on the roof of a barn farther to the south and west. It had been monitoring a different area — initially facing away from the gunman, videos posted to social media show.

Video footage shows the countersnipers later turning toward the gunman’s direction one minute and 35 seconds before the first shot was fired. This is the view they would have had when they turned around.


Roof view
 
Close-up

But the slope of the warehouse roof that the gunman had chosen would have also made it difficult for the south countersniper team to see him as he crawled upward, a Times analysis shows. Only the very top of Mr. Crooks’s head would have been visible in either Secret Service countersniper team’s line of sight, and only while the gunman was hunkered behind the highest point on the roof.



Forty-two seconds after the shooting began, Secret Service agents can be heard saying “Shooter down” in video footage. Mr. Crooks was fatally shot by a Secret Service countersniper, the agency later confirmed. It’s likely the shot came from the countersnipers on the south barn, who would have been one of the best positioned.

What Local Law Enforcement Countersnipers Saw

A third group of three law enforcement countersnipers was stationed in the same warehouse complex as the gunman, but in an adjacent building, according to a local law enforcement official, who was not authorized to comment.
     (snip)

Here is what the view of one countersniper — facing those attending the rally — might have looked like.


     (snip)

What the Gunman Saw

The gunman’s spot on a warehouse roof — less than 500 feet from Mr. Trump — provided him with a clear, elevated line of sight.


Roof view
 
Close-up

As he crawled up toward the peak of the roof, its slight slope would have concealed him from the Secret Service countersnipers for a majority of the time. And, once he reached the top, the two trees would have provided some cover from the north countersniper team.
     (snip)

Other Security Missteps

Two rows of chain-link fencing divide the Butler Farm Show property from the warehouse complex. It’s unclear if the Secret Service used the fencing to delineate the security perimeters, but the agency later acknowledged that the AGR warehouses were excluded from the secure zone.



     (snip)

Methodology

The Times flew a drone on July 16 over the site of the attempted assassination of Mr. Trump in Butler, Pa., and used the imagery captured by the drone to create a 3-D model of the scene. The Times also used measurements collected on the ground, satellite imagery and references from photos and videos posted on social media to corroborate the dimensions in the model. The positions of the gunman, countersniper teams and the victims were based on sites The Times located from social media videos.

To determine the lines of sight of each countersniper team in the 3-D model, The Times conducted a viewshed analysis — a spatial technique used to calculate what areas would be visible from a specific location in 3-D, taking into account obstructions. The Times used a 1,000-foot radius from the position of the countersnipers for this analysis, which encompassed both the Butler Farm Show grounds and the AGR warehouse complex. The Times placed cameras in the 3-D model at the approximate locations of the gunman’s and the countersniper teams’ elevations to show what their views might have looked like from those vantage points. The gunman’s exact location in the renderings is based on the position where his body was found after he was shot. The specifics of the scopes used by the gunman or the countersnipers on their rifles are not known, and the 3-D renderings are approximate.
_______________

(End)
« Last Edit: August 02, 2024, 01:42:55 PM by Jerry Organ »

Online Charles Collins

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3792
Re: 3D Modeling
« Reply #167 on: July 27, 2024, 04:31:06 PM »
I must have gotten into a free daily read. I was using a Private Window in Firefox. You can access the full text of the NYT 3D page by using "Reader Mode" (in Firefox, it's a page-like icon inside the address bar). The NYT Video/Audio Analysis page didn't work as well in "Reader Mode".

Here's parts of the Times' 3D page recreated.

How the Trump Rally Gunman Had an Edge Over the Countersnipers
     (snip)

What Secret Service Countersnipers on the North Barn Saw

This is the line of sight that one of two Secret Service teams most likely had just minutes before Mr. Crooks opened fire.


Roof view
 
Close-up
     (snip)

The gunman was largely concealed by two trees and the slope of a warehouse building roof, which he used as his perch.
     (snip)

The Times captured its own drone footage three days after the shooting. This footage provides a glimpse into how much the trees might have impaired the countersnipers’ view of the gunman.


     (snip)

What Secret Service Countersnipers on the South Barn Saw

A second Secret Service countersniper team was positioned on the roof of a barn farther to the south and west. It had been monitoring a different area — initially facing away from the gunman, videos posted to social media show.

Video footage shows the countersnipers later turning toward the gunman’s direction one minute and 35 seconds before the first shot was fired. This is the view they would have had when they turned around.

Roof view   Close-up  (I could not access these images)

But the slope of the warehouse roof that the gunman had chosen would have also made it difficult for the south countersniper team to see him as he crawled upward, a Times analysis shows. Only the very top of Mr. Crooks’s head would have been visible in either Secret Service countersniper team’s line of sight, and only while the gunman was hunkered behind the highest point on the roof.



Note: Diagram represents a conservative size of the gunman's prone body.

Forty-two seconds after the shooting began, Secret Service agents can be heard saying “Shooter down” in video footage. Mr. Crooks was fatally shot by a Secret Service countersniper, the agency later confirmed. It’s likely the shot came from the countersnipers on the south barn, who would have been one of the best positioned.

What Local Law Enforcement Countersnipers Saw

A third group of three law enforcement countersnipers was stationed in the same warehouse complex as the gunman, but in an adjacent building, according to a local law enforcement official, who was not authorized to comment.
     (snip)

Here is what the view of one countersniper — facing those attending the rally — might have looked like.


     (snip)

What the Gunman Saw

The gunman’s spot on a warehouse roof — less than 500 feet from Mr. Trump — provided him with a clear, elevated line of sight.

Roof view
(Could not access)
 
Close-up

As he crawled up toward the peak of the roof, its slight slope would have concealed him from the Secret Service countersnipers for a majority of the time. And, once he reached the top, the two trees would have provided some cover from the north countersniper team.
     (snip)

Methodology

The Times flew a drone on July 16 over the site of the attempted assassination of Mr. Trump in Butler, Pa., and used the imagery captured by the drone to create a 3-D model of the scene. The Times also used measurements collected on the ground, satellite imagery and references from photos and videos posted on social media to corroborate the dimensions in the model. The positions of the gunman, countersniper teams and the victims were based on sites The Times located from social media videos.

To determine the lines of sight of each countersniper team in the 3-D model, The Times conducted a viewshed analysis — a spatial technique used to calculate what areas would be visible from a specific location in 3-D, taking into account obstructions. The Times used a 1,000-foot radius from the position of the countersnipers for this analysis, which encompassed both the Butler Farm Show grounds and the AGR warehouse complex. The Times placed cameras in the 3-D model at the approximate locations of the gunman’s and the countersniper teams’ elevations to show what their views might have looked like from those vantage points. The gunman’s exact location in the renderings is based on the position where his body was found after he was shot. The specifics of the scopes used by the gunman or the countersnipers on their rifles are not known, and the 3-D renderings are approximate.
_______________

This shows how limited the 1963 materials are. 8mm film, no audio. Lucky to have any film as all, especially the quality and view-angle of the Zapruder film.

Thanks Jerry. I have only read a very limited bit about this. So, at this point I am unsure how much of it is actually true. Now that some time has elapsed, I think that the respected NYT articles should be reliable. I will try your suggestions.

JFK Assassination Forum

Re: 3D Modeling
« Reply #167 on: July 27, 2024, 04:31:06 PM »