Perception of Reality

[James Hackerott]

The video clip is taken from the Secret Services reconstructions in early December. The camera car drove through Dealey Plaza – with focus on the 6th floor corner window. I’ve tried to bracket the clip from about Z133 to Z225.  Although the window set with Elsie Dorman and Vicky Adams (2 floors below and west of the SN) is in frame it is highly obscured from leaves and branches of the Live Oak. I used the 3D model for help estimating the film Z frames.

[Charles Collins]

The video clip is taken from the Secret Services reconstructions in early December. The camera car drove through Dealey Plaza – with focus on the 6th floor corner window. I’ve tried to bracket the clip from about Z133 to Z225.  Although the window set with Elsie Dorman and Vicky Adams (2 floors below and west of the SN) is in frame it is highly obscured from leaves and branches of the Live Oak. I used the 3D model for help estimating the film Z frames.

Great work James! I hadn’t considered that approach. This is further confirmation of the 3-D models and Roberdeau’s map approaches. Thanks!

[Charles Collins]

The video clip is taken from the Secret Services reconstructions in early December. The camera car drove through Dealey Plaza – with focus on the 6th floor corner window. I’ve tried to bracket the clip from about Z133 to Z225.  Although the window set with Elsie Dorman and Vicky Adams (2 floors below and west of the SN) is in frame it is highly obscured from leaves and branches of the Live Oak. I used the 3D model for help estimating the film Z frames.

This also appears to show that the view from Dorman’s window was starting to get clear of the tree about the time your clip ends (~z225). And I have read that Adams said that she saw Clint running to the limo. So it all fits. Thanks again!

[Dan O'meara]

The video clip is taken from the Secret Services reconstructions in early December. The camera car drove through Dealey Plaza – with focus on the 6th floor corner window. I’ve tried to bracket the clip from about Z133 to Z225.  Although the window set with Elsie Dorman and Vicky Adams (2 floors below and west of the SN) is in frame it is highly obscured from leaves and branches of the Live Oak. I used the 3D model for help estimating the film Z frames.

Excellent video James.
There can be no doubt the window Adams, Styles, Dorma and Garner were looking out of is completely obscured during the time frame you've bracketed,

I'm left baffled as to Adams testimony as she states seeing both JFK and Jackie turning abruptly to face the TSBD which is not shown anywhere in the video record before z190.

[Andrew Mason]

This also appears to show that the view from Dorman’s window was starting to get clear of the tree about the time your clip ends (~z225). And I have read that Adams said that she saw Clint running to the limo. So it all fits. Thanks again!

One problem is that Adams said that the shot occurred while the tree obscured her view.  Even using your frame numbers, that is well after z133.  You seem to ignore the large number of people who have every reason to be as reliable as Veronica Adams, who put the first shot after z186.  You are also ignoring the 1.....2..3 shot sequence.

The December 1963 Secret Service film shows quite well that the tree never completely obscured the view of JFK by Oswald in the SN and only partially obscured it for a few frames. Oswald had a completely clear view of JFK when JFK was about opposite the west corner of the TSBD, which puts him a bit past the lamppost just short of being opposite the Thornton Freeway sign:

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[Charles Collins]

One problem is that Adams said that the shot occurred while the tree obscured her view.  Even using your frame numbers, that is well after z133.  You seem to ignore the large number of people who have every reason to be as reliable as Veronica Adams, who put the first shot after z186.  You are also ignoring the 1.....2..3 shot sequence.

From chapter 10 of “The Girl on the Stairs”, this is what a Jim Leavelle report dated 2/17/64 says Adams told him on that date:

When the President got in front of us I heard someone call him, and he turned. That is when I heard the first shot.

The fourth floor Dorman window appears to me to already have become at least partially obstructed at the beginning of the clips that James Hackerott provided. He indicates that those clips begin very close to z133.

So I have to disagree with both of your points. It wasn’t well after z133. The other accounts that you repeatedly cite lack the precision that the stationary tree combined with her confirmation (that the turn and subsequent first shot occurred prior to the obstruction by the tree) gives her account. She appears to me to be a credible witness. And the photographic record tends to support her accounts. Why should your favorite accounts be taken as more credible than Adams’ account?

[Andrew Mason]

From chapter 10 of “The Girl on the Stairs”, this is what a Jim Leavelle report dated 2/17/64 says Adams told him on that date:

When the President got in front of us I heard someone call him, and he turned. That is when I heard the first shot.

That is one of her alleged statements and we don't know if Jim Leavelle wrote down verbatim what she said or recorded it. It is apparent that Victoria Adams did not review the statement.  You are placing a lot of weight on Leavelle's recollection, uncorroborated, that she actually said "that is when" in relation to JFK turning. 

Dorothy Garner, who was standing at the same window with Adams said:

"I recall that moments following the passing of the Presidential car I heard three loud reports which I first thought to be fireworks but only seconds later realized something had happened on the street below although as the time of the shots, the Presidential car was out of view behind a tree."

In Adams' WC testimony she said her view of JFK was obstructed when the shots were fired:

"Miss ADAMS. And from our vantage point we were able to see what the
President’s wife was wearing, the roses in the car, and things that would attract
women’s attention. Then we heard-then we were obstructed from the
view.
Mr. BELIN. By what?
Miss ADAMS. A tree. And we heard a shot, and it was a pause, and then a
second shot, and then a third shot."

By the way, if you accept Victoria Adams' statement to Leavelle, why do you not accept her statement about the shot pattern:  "we heard a shot, and it was a pause, and then a second shot, and then a third shot?"

Why should your favorite accounts be taken as more credible than Adams’ account?

It is not about taking "favorite accounts".  It is about examining all the evidence and fitting it together.  The early missed shot/second shot SBT does not fit large bodies of consistent, independent evidence. One has to ask: how is it that so many witnesses independently recalled that the same consistent things?

[Charles Collins]

That is one of her alleged statements and we don't know if Jim Leavelle wrote down verbatim what she said or recorded it. It is apparent that Victoria Adams did not review the statement.  You are placing a lot of weight on Leavelle's recollection, uncorroborated, that she actually said "that is when" in relation to JFK turning. 

Dorothy Garner, who was standing at the same window with Adams said:

"I recall that moments following the passing of the Presidential car I heard three loud reports which I first thought to be fireworks but only seconds later realized something had happened on the street below although as the time of the shots, the Presidential car was out of view behind a tree."

In Adams' WC testimony she said her view of JFK was obstructed when the shots were fired:

"Miss ADAMS. And from our vantage point we were able to see what the
President’s wife was wearing, the roses in the car, and things that would attract
women’s attention. Then we heard-then we were obstructed from the
view.
Mr. BELIN. By what?
Miss ADAMS. A tree. And we heard a shot, and it was a pause, and then a
second shot, and then a third shot."

By the way, if you accept Victoria Adams' statement to Leavelle, why do you not accept her statement about the shot pattern:  "we heard a shot, and it was a pause, and then a second shot, and then a third shot?"It is not about taking "favorite accounts".  It is about examining all the evidence and fitting it together.  The early missed shot/second shot SBT does not fit large bodies of consistent, independent evidence. One has to ask: how is it that so many witnesses independently recalled that the same consistent things?

Then we heard-then we were obstructed from the
view.
Mr. BELIN. By what?
Miss ADAMS. A tree. And we heard a shot, and it was a pause, and then a
second shot, and then a third shot."

If taken verbatim, she says that “we heard-then we were obstructed…