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Author Topic: The Sign of a Large-Secret-Enduring Conspiracy Theory  (Read 18284 times)

Offline Bill Chapman

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Re: The Sign of a Large-Secret-Enduring Conspiracy Theory
« Reply #24 on: October 21, 2021, 09:02:46 PM »
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The reality. Smirking and winking whilst Mr's Kennedy's back is turned. A cuddle and commiserations from the snakes.

American exceptionalism brainwashing victims refuse to accept the truth. What they inflicted upon many other nations also visited them.


JFK Assassination Forum

Re: The Sign of a Large-Secret-Enduring Conspiracy Theory
« Reply #24 on: October 21, 2021, 09:02:46 PM »


Offline Bill Chapman

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Re: The Sign of a Large-Secret-Enduring Conspiracy Theory
« Reply #25 on: October 21, 2021, 09:20:58 PM »
Grow up Bill.
Williams clearly lies on his same day affidavit then does a 180 the next day when the FBI come calling.
Why does he lie?
The lying of so many TSBD employees is a massive problem for the LN narrative.
Your only option is to counter it with meaningless posts.

  My option is to quote the witnesses

 
   billchapman
   William Whaley

   
   billchapman
   What Earlene Roberts witnessed around 1:00pm
   at Oswald's safe house 11.22.63   

   -------------------------------
   WITNESSES_GROUP OF 12+
   ------------------------------


   billchapman
   Helen Markham_Group of 12


   billchapman
   Ted Callaway_Group of 12


   billchapman
   Barbara Davis_Group of 12


   billchapman
   Victoria Davis_Group of 12


   billchapman
   Sam Guinyard_Group of 12


   billchapman
   Warren Reynolds_Group of 12
« Last Edit: October 21, 2021, 09:22:48 PM by Bill Chapman »

Offline Dan O'meara

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Re: The Sign of a Large-Secret-Enduring Conspiracy Theory
« Reply #26 on: October 21, 2021, 10:17:30 PM »
You have provided a non-conspiracy explanation yourself.  In the 1960s maybe a black man doesn't want to acknowledge to the police that he was on the floor from which the President was assassinated just minutes later.

So you agree, he does lie about not being on the 6th floor?
However, the reason you offer makes zero sense. A young black male, being interviewed by notoriously racist police, decides to lie to their faces concerning a crime of such magnitude because he was on the same floor as the assassin? Rather than just tell them everything he knows.
You may think that is somehow plausible but I do not.

And how do you know that Williams knew where the assassin fired from by the time he was taken in?

Quote
Maybe he just doesn't think it is all that important to mention since he saw nothing on the 6th floor to report.

This is a really bizarre comment.
If he saw nothing to report why would he create a lie to avoid telling the police he was up there?
Remember - it's not that BRW fails to mention being on the 6th floor, that could be forgetfulness, the important thing is that he creates a new reality (deliberately lies) in order to give the impression he was never there.
Also of importance is that he drags Norman and Jarman into this lie.
How could he tell this specific lie if he knew Norman and Jarman would say something different when they were interviewed.
Why would he tell such an easily refuted lie to the Dallas police, knowing there would be very severe consequences when caught out in that lie?
The only feasible explanation is that he was confident Jarman and Norman would support him in the lie.
Which is exactly what they do.

Quote
It's a very short statement that does not contain every detail.  That doesn't make it a lie or mean he was covering up something as part of a conspiracy.

It contains these details - after collecting his lunch he accompanies Jarman and Norman up to the 5th floor and shortly after they all arrive on the 5th floor the motorcade arrives.
This is a complete fabrication, a deliberate untruth, a lie.
It is not a misunderstanding due to the brevity of the affidavit or "misremberance". It is the creation of a falsehood.

How can we be sure that is the case?
Because the very next day he tells the FBI the following:

"At approximately 12 noon, WILLIAMS went back upstairs in the elevator to the sixth floor with his lunch. He stayed on that floor only about three minutes, and seeing no-one there, descended to the fifth floor using the stairs at the west end of the building. There he joined two other men known to him as HANK and JUNIOR"

In this account, given 24 hrs after the first, BRW now goes up to the 6th floor on his own, sees there is no-one there and goes down to the 5th floor to Norman and Jarman.
This is a completely different account to the lie he told the DPD.
Extraordinarily he also lies to the FBI !!

I find this quite mind-blowing - it's one thing to lie to the DPD but then to lie to the FBI is off the charts.
Williams states that he is on the 6th floor for only 3 minutes, sees no-one there, and comes down to the 5th floor.
We now know this is a complete lie.
BRW is up on the 6th for around 25 minutes having his lunch before he goes down to the 5th floor.
Remember - he's not giving this statement months later, it's the day after the assassination!
He is supposed to be giving an accurate description of his movements by the FBI as part of an investigation into the assassination of the President of the United States...and he lies!

And this is not the end of his lying, it continues into his WC testimony.
And a pattern emerges - he is at pains to downplay how long he is on the 6th and to distance himself from the Sniper's Nest while he is up there.

If you can think of a REASONABLE explanation why he does this I would like to hear it.

LATER EDIT: I am not implying that BRW is in anyway involved in a conspiracy to assassinate JFK.
« Last Edit: October 27, 2021, 03:39:29 PM by Dan O'meara »

JFK Assassination Forum

Re: The Sign of a Large-Secret-Enduring Conspiracy Theory
« Reply #26 on: October 21, 2021, 10:17:30 PM »


Offline Dan O'meara

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Re: The Sign of a Large-Secret-Enduring Conspiracy Theory
« Reply #27 on: October 21, 2021, 10:25:49 PM »
  My option is to quote the witnesses

 
   billchapman
   William Whaley

   
   billchapman
   What Earlene Roberts witnessed around 1:00pm
   at Oswald's safe house 11.22.63   

   -------------------------------
   WITNESSES_GROUP OF 12+
   ------------------------------


   billchapman
   Helen Markham_Group of 12


   billchapman
   Ted Callaway_Group of 12


   billchapman
   Barbara Davis_Group of 12


   billchapman
   Victoria Davis_Group of 12


   billchapman
   Sam Guinyard_Group of 12


   billchapman
   Warren Reynolds_Group of 12

What did I say:

"Your only option is to counter it with meaningless posts."

WTF does the Tippit murder have to do with Bonnie Ray Williams?
Don't bother to answer Bill as we all know the answer.  ::)

Online Richard Smith

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Re: The Sign of a Large-Secret-Enduring Conspiracy Theory
« Reply #28 on: October 21, 2021, 10:55:20 PM »
So you agree, he does lie about not being on the 6th floor?
However, the reason you offer makes zero sense. A young black male, being interviewed by notoriously racist police, decides to lie to their faces concerning a crime of such magnitude because he was on the same floor as the assassin? Rather than just tell them everything he knows.
You may think that is somehow plausible but I do not.

And how do you know that Williams knew where the assassin fired from by the time he was taken in?

This is a really bizarre comment.
If he saw nothing to report why would he create a lie to avoid telling the police he was up there?
Remember - it's not that BRW fails to mention being on the 6th floor, that could be forgetfulness, the important thing is that he creates a new reality (deliberately lies) in order to give the impression he was never there.
Also of importance is that he drags Norman and Jarman into this lie.
How could he tell this specific lie if he knew Norman and Jarman would say something different when they were interviewed.
Why would he tell such an easily refuted lie to the Dallas police, knowing there would be very severe consequences when caught out in that lie?
The only feasible explanation is that he was confident Jarman and Norman would support him in the lie.
Which is exactly what they do.

It contains these details - after collecting his lunch he accompanies Jarman and Norman up to the 5th floor and shortly after they all arrive on the 5th floor the motorcade arrives.
This is a complete fabrication, a deliberate untruth, a lie.
It is not a misunderstanding due to the brevity of the affidavit or "misremberance". It is the creation of a falsehood.

How can we be sure that is the case?
Because the very next day he tells the FBI the following:

"At approximately 12 noon, WILLIAMS went back upstairs in the elevator to the sixth floor with his lunch. He stayed on that floor only about three minutes, and seeing no-one there, descended to the fifth floor using the stairs at the west end of the building. There he joined two other men known to him as HANK and JUNIOR"

In this account, given 24 hrs after the first, BRW now goes up to the 6th floor on his own, sees there is no-one there and goes down to the 5th floor to Norman and Jarman.
This is a completely different account to the lie he told the DPD.
Extraordinarily he also lies to the FBI !!

I find this quite mind-blowing - it's one thing to lie to the DPD but then to lie to the FBI is off the charts.
Williams states that he is on the 6th floor for only 3 minutes, sees no-one there, and comes down to the 5th floor.
We now know this is a complete lie.
BRW is up on the 6th for around 25 minutes having his lunch before he goes down to the 5th floor.
Remember - he's not giving this statement months later, it's the day after the assassination!
He is being to give an accurate description of his movements by the FBI as part of an investigation into the assassination of the President of the United States...and he lies!

And this is not the end of his lying, it continues into his WC testimony.
And a pattern emerges - he is at pains to downplay how long he is on the 6th and to distance himself from the Sniper's Nest while he is up there.

If you can think of a REASONABLE explanation why he does this I would like to hear it.

LATER EDIT: I am not implying that BRW is in anyway involved in a conspiracy to assassinate JFK.

If you are not implying that he was involved in a conspiracy, then what difference does it make and why list him as having foreknowledge of the assassination?  Are you suggesting he saw the assassin (Oswald or otherwise) and they just let him leave the floor trusting he wouldn't raise the alarm and he decided to go down to the window directly below the one he has cause to suspect is being used by the assassin?  And he stays forever silent about whatever he saw?  That is very farfetched.  It's only in your interpretation that he creates any lie.  It's an omission in a very short statement.  For which there are several plausible reasons.  Not the least of which is that he saw nothing of importance on the 6th floor to mention in his initial short statement.   His estimate of time, like that of almost every witness in this case, is all over the place.  He had no particular cause to note how many minutes it took him to eat lunch that day.  And later he just makes an estimate based on his faulty memory.  I don't see anything here particularly sinister. 

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Re: The Sign of a Large-Secret-Enduring Conspiracy Theory
« Reply #28 on: October 21, 2021, 10:55:20 PM »


Offline Dan O'meara

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Re: The Sign of a Large-Secret-Enduring Conspiracy Theory
« Reply #29 on: October 21, 2021, 11:11:48 PM »
If you are not implying that he was involved in a conspiracy, then what difference does it make and why list him as having foreknowledge of the assassination?  Are you suggesting he saw the assassin (Oswald or otherwise) and they just let him leave the floor trusting he wouldn't raise the alarm and he decided to go down to the window directly below the one he has cause to suspect is being used by the assassin?  And he stays forever silent about whatever he saw?  That is very farfetched.  It's only in your interpretation that he creates any lie.  It's an omission in a very short statement.  For which there are several plausible reasons.  Not the least of which is that he saw nothing of importance on the 6th floor to mention in his initial short statement.   His estimate of time, like that of almost every witness in this case, is all over the place.  He had no particular cause to note how many minutes it took him to eat lunch that day.  And later he just makes an estimate based on his faulty memory.  I don't see anything here particularly sinister.

"If you are not implying that he was involved in a conspiracy, then what difference does it make and why list him as having foreknowledge of the assassination?"

I'm not implying that he wasn't involved in the assassination - I'm stating it very clearly.
Nowhere have I put Williams on a list of people with foreknowledge of the assassination. That is an error on your part.

"It's an omission in a very short statement."

I've gone to great lengths to make it clear it is not an "omission". It is the creation of a false narrative. He hasn't left something out of his statement, he has added something that didn't happen. He has fabricated a different version of events, not forgotten to mention something that happened.
By any measure he has lied to the DPD and then to the FBI.
You can underplay it all you want.

According to your understanding of events, how long is BRW up on the 6th floor having his lunch?
« Last Edit: October 21, 2021, 11:13:19 PM by Dan O'meara »

Online Richard Smith

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Re: The Sign of a Large-Secret-Enduring Conspiracy Theory
« Reply #30 on: October 22, 2021, 03:58:33 PM »
"If you are not implying that he was involved in a conspiracy, then what difference does it make and why list him as having foreknowledge of the assassination?"

I'm not implying that he wasn't involved in the assassination - I'm stating it very clearly.
Nowhere have I put Williams on a list of people with foreknowledge of the assassination. That is an error on your part.

"It's an omission in a very short statement."

I've gone to great lengths to make it clear it is not an "omission". It is the creation of a false narrative. He hasn't left something out of his statement, he has added something that didn't happen. He has fabricated a different version of events, not forgotten to mention something that happened.
By any measure he has lied to the DPD and then to the FBI.
You can underplay it all you want.

According to your understanding of events, how long is BRW up on the 6th floor having his lunch?

I have no idea how long he was there eating lunch.  He didn't know himself because he had no cause to believe it mattered at the time.  He gave different estimates.  Just as many people in the case gave wrong times and estimates of times.  As a result, no one can say for sure.  What matters is whether he saw anything.  He says he didn't.  It defies belief that any assassin, much less a conspiracy of more than one person, acting for months or years to frame Oswald, would allow someone to leave the 6th floor after seeing something and trust them not to raise the alarm and remain forever silent.  And then that person decides to go to the window directly below that from which he has cause to suspect something is up and possibly get caught in the cross fire. 

At worst, perhaps as a black man in the 1960s South, BRW initially was reluctant to admit that he had been on the 6th floor just minutes before the president was murdered from that location.  Black men had been punished for much less at that time.  But that isn't a lie per se.  He never denied being there.  He simply did not volunteer that information in his initial short statement.  Most likely because he saw nothing while eating lunch and didn't think it mattered.  He later explained it when questioned at greater length.  In his statement, he says "we" went down the elevator but then "I" went to the 5th floor.   That is entirely consistent with his actions.
« Last Edit: October 22, 2021, 04:06:08 PM by Richard Smith »

Offline John Iacoletti

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Re: The Sign of a Large-Secret-Enduring Conspiracy Theory
« Reply #31 on: October 22, 2021, 08:41:40 PM »
The special pleading exhibited here by "Richard" is unbelievable.  When Oswald "omits details that don't matter" he's a liar with a consciousness of guilt because he just murdered the president.

JFK Assassination Forum

Re: The Sign of a Large-Secret-Enduring Conspiracy Theory
« Reply #31 on: October 22, 2021, 08:41:40 PM »