Where did Oswalds communist card go?

[Steve M. Galbraith]

I think he was playing games. Whether he was doing it for his own amusement or doing it as part of an "operation" involving anti-communist characters like Guy Bannister remains an open question.

His writings and the things he told people close to him after he returned to the US from Russia suggest he had become disillusioned with Soviet style communism after living in the USSR. Also, the CPUSA was very close to the Soviets.

He said he was a communist well before meeting/coming across Banister in New Orleans. As a teenager, at 17, when he dropped out of high school and was working as a messenger. He told his brother that he was a communist when he defected/lived in the USSR. He later abandoned that characterization when he came to the belief that the Soviet system - Marxism-Leninis - was a betrayal of true Marxism. And he criticized the CPUSA for its slavish defense of Moscow.

This seems to be an impossible dilemma: the more evidence that is shown that he held radical ideas - as he understood them - and that he wasn't pretending or acting the more the conspiracy response is that it was part of their conspiracy and it was indeed an act.

We say "A" and conspiracists say "not A". There's no place to take this much further. It's just going over old ground. Frankly, I think it's absurd that any conspiracists would shoot JFK in the middle of the street, in broad daylight, with hundreds of people around, many with cameras. And then think it could all be covered up. Forever? Even now? Impossible.

But here we are. Almost sixty years later.

[Steve M. Galbraith]

I mostly agree. I shouldn’t have said he “never” identified as a communist.

He may have done so before living in the USSR (and while living there to stay on good terms with his hosts) but after coming home to the US in 1962 he expressed disillusionment with Soviet style communism and wasn’t a fan of the American communist party.

Right, he said that the Soviet system had replaced the Czarist one with an even worse state. That instead of a "withering away" of the state that a huge repressive bureaucracy had emerged. So he rejected this "Marxist-Leninist' version of Marxism.

I think conspiracy people are too quick to dismiss his understanding of Marxism. True, when he was younger - 17-20 or so - it was a cartoonish understanding. But I think later in life it was a bit more sophisticated than his critics say. If you correct his writings for their spelling and grammar there are some college level type thinking here. After all he did have an IQ of 118.  He was not well educated but he wasn't a simpleton.

[Jon Banks]

Right, he said that the Soviet system had replaced the Czarist one with an even worse state. That instead of a "withering away" of the state that a huge repressive bureaucracy had emerged. So he rejected this "Marxist-Leninist' version of Marxism.

I think conspiracy people are too quick to dismiss his understanding of Marxism. True, when he was younger - 17-20 or so - it was a cartoonish understanding. But I think later in life it was a bit more sophisticated than his critics say. If you correct his writings for their spelling and grammar they're some college level type thinking here. After all he did have an IQ of 118.  He was not well educated but he wasn't a simpleton.

Most people do a lot of maturing between the ages 17 and 23. It seems plausible and normal to me that he no longer believed in communism by the time he returned from the USSR.

All the evidence from his family, friends, and his own writings after 1962 show that his political views were more complex by 1963. He did some bizarre stuff in New Orleans in the summer of 1963 and I don't think you and I agree on the motivation of those activities. He kept a low profile while living in Dallas yet went out of his way to draw attention to himself in New Orleans. I believe it was for reasons that we don't yet know of.

Most of the LN narrative relies on Oswald being painted as a radical communist but most of the documented evidence shows that he wasn't into communism by 1963.

I do think it's plausible that he attempted to kill Gen. Edwin Walker and assassinated Kennedy but not for the reasons most LN'ers believe.

Walker was a rabid segregationist activist. I believe Oswald's support for Civil Rights drove both his hatred of Walker and his expression of approval of JFK's policies on Civil Rights. 

[Steve M. Galbraith]

Most people do a lot of maturing between the ages 17 and 23. It seems plausible and normal to me that he no longer believed in communism by the time he returned from the USSR.

All the evidence from his family, friends, and his own writings after 1962 show that his political views were more complex by 1963. He did some bizarre stuff in New Orleans in the summer of 1963 and I don't think you and I agree on the motivation of those activities. He kept a low profile while living in Dallas yet went out of his way to draw attention to himself in New Orleans. I believe it was for reasons that we don't yet know of.

Most of the LN narrative relies on Oswald being painted as a radical communist but most of the documented evidence shows that he wasn't into communism by 1963.

I do think it's plausible that he attempted to kill Gen. Edwin Walker and assassinated Kennedy but not for the reasons most LN'ers believe.

Walker was a rabid segregationist activist. I believe Oswald's support for Civil Rights drove both his hatred of Walker and his expression of approval of JFK's policies on Civil Rights.

I think the New Orleans activity was to create a resume to show the Cubans that he was a friend of the revolution so they'd let him in. Duran said that he showed her much of his work - the Fair Play stuff, et cetera. When he was in the Marines he told Delgado that he wanted to go to Cuba. In the USSR, Marina said he used to sing songs to Fidel and talk glowingly about the "revolution."

Marina discussed much of this in the McMillan book. As in: he was emotionally desperate after getting fired from jobs. They had no money except for the unemployment checks and charity. He was at a loss as to what to do. His life was at a dead end. Cuban was the only option.

He sees that the USSR is not true Marxism. It's a bureaucratic police state. So he turns to Castro as the real creator of true Marxism.

So either he did this on his own volition to impress Havana or he was acting it out for some reason. And that reason was? I don't understand what the purpose of it was for? If Banister was directing him then what was the purpose? And I find it strange that Oswald is out on the street agitating for Castro and then going back and consorting with Banister? And Banister at that time had no connections, as far as I see, with the FBI or CIA. So what was Banister's goal here with Oswald?

[Steve M. Galbraith]

Here's the account by Marina. This is shortly after Oswald lost the job oiling the coffee machines at the Reilly coffee company. He had no job, a wife and a child, another on the way. No money, no hopes, nothing. He's sobbing in desperation. So they agree to return to the USSR.

Is this a CIA agent? Was it all an act? Part of his cover? The things conspiracists have to dismiss, to characterize as part of his intelligence work is astounding.

[Jon Banks]

I think the New Orleans activity was to create a resume to show the Cubans that he was a friend of the revolution so they'd let him in. Duran said that he showed her much of his work - the Fair Play stuff, et cetera. When he was in the Marines he told Delgado that he wanted to go to Cuba. In the USSR, Marina said he used to sing songs to Fidel and talk glowingly about the "revolution."

Studying the history Cold War has helped me put a lot of this kinds of stuff into context.

It's worth remembering that Castro didn't go full Soviet Communist until after the Bay of Pigs. Prior to the Cuban Missile Crisis, many Americans had a favorable opinion of Castro and the Cuban Revolution. So it shouldn't be viewed as odd or "radical" that Oswald liked Castro in the early 60s.
 
What seems more odd to me is that Oswald, who supposedly killed JFK because of our policies towards Cuba, told people, including Marina, that he liked Kennedy long after the Bay of Pigs and Cuban Missile crisis. One would expect someone who is so pro-Castro to hate Kennedy as much as he hated Gen. Walker after the Bay of Pigs.

Whatever Oswald's reasons for his admiration of Cuba or Castro, I don't think it was entirely about communism. I think he was just politically ahead of his time as George DeMorenschildt has said. Meaning, Oswald was a few years ahead of the late-60s New Left movements that protested against Vietnam and embraced Marxist philosophy as well as figures like Che Guevara and Castro. If he had not been killed, would he have participated in those movements? Perhaps.

On the otherhand, where were Oswald's communist or marxist friends and associates? It's very difficult to find examples of Oswald associating with people who weren't anti-communists. The Paine's appear to be politically Liberal but nothing about them suggests they supported communism or marxism.

So either he did this on his own volition to impress Havana or he was acting it out for some reason. And that reason was? I don't understand what the purpose of it was for? If Banister was directing him then what was the purpose? And I find it strange that Oswald is out on the street agitating for Castro and then going back and consorting with Banister? And Banister at that time had no connections, as far as I see, with the FBI or CIA. So what was Banister's goal here with Oswald?

I don't think Bannister was Oswald's handler or pulling strings. I'm just noting how absurd it was that he associated with a far-right Bircher like Bannister.

Perhaps someone else was Oswald's handler and placed him with Bannister but that's entirely speculative on my part.

When the Cubans finally approved Oswald's visa weeks after his Mexico City trip, what did he do? Nothing. Strange for someone who so eagerly wanted to go to Cuba.

The only two possibilities are that he was doing those things for his own personal reasons or he was doing those things as part of a broader operation that involved other people.

I'll admit that I find the theory that Oswald was part of the CIA/FBI operations against the FPFCC to be a compelling reason for the continuing secrecy surrounding the JFK files. Government agencies might never want to admit to a relationship with the President's would be assassin. Short of covering up their complicity in a conspiracy against Kennedy, covering up their pre-11/22/63 knowledge of or association with Oswald seems like a pretty good rationale.


Lastly, I don' accept much of what Marina told investigators or Pricilla McMillan at face value given Marina's well documented "poor memory"...