Last Second in Dallas

[Jon Banks]

All the evidence pointed to Oswald.  Then and now.  He worked in the building from which the shots were fired.  His rifle was found there.  Bullet casings from his rifle were found by the window from which the shots were fired.  He had no credible alibi for the moment at which the shots were fired.  He could not explain the presence of his rifle at the crime scene but instead lied about his ownership of it.  He fled the scene within minutes and murdered a DPD officer in broad daylight in front of numerous witnesses.  He resisted arrest and assaulted another police officer.  He was a known political nut.  But it was a "rush to judgement"?  HA HA HA.  Comedy gold.

A conspiracy and Oswald’s guilt aren’t mutually exclusive.

President Johnson believed Oswald was guilty but others were involved. Robert Kennedy expressed similar sentiments in private.

The highest levels of government in 1963 didn’t rule out a conspiracy within 48 hours.

[Steve M. Galbraith]

They simply had sufficient evidence by Saturday night to charge him with the murder of JFK.

Evidence you want to share with us?

Sorry, I think that's a "bad faith" question. You're a smart guy even if I disagree with you on this. You know the evidence they had.

You simply think the evidence was planted or faked or manufactured. Fine. You dismiss it. But it existed and they believed in its authenticity.

As to the question again: I do think a fair point can be made that they should have had access to the autopsy report, to the Zapruder film (which I don't think they saw) and other evidence before charging him. They could have charged him with the Tippit shooting (yes, I know you don't think he shot Tippit either) and then waited to indict him for the assassination.

That's my answer and I'm sticking with it <g>. Although I do ask for unanimous consent to revise and extend my remarks.

[Martin Weidmann]

Sorry, I think that's a "bad faith" question. You're a smart guy even if I disagree with you on this. You know the evidence they had.

You simply think the evidence was planted or faked or manufactured. Fine. You dismiss it. But it existed and they believed in its authenticity.

As to the question again: I do think a fair point can be made that they should have had access to the autopsy report, to the Zapruder film (which I don't think they saw) and other evidence before charging him. They could have charged him with the Tippit shooting (yes, I know you don't think he shot Tippit either) and then waited to indict him for the assassination.

That's my answer and I'm sticking with it <g>. Although I do ask for unanimous consent to revise and extend my remarks.

Sorry, I think that's a "bad faith" question. You're a smart guy even if I disagree with you on this. You know the evidence they had.

You simply think the evidence was planted or faked or manufactured. Fine. You dismiss it. But it existed and they believed in its authenticity.



Sorry, I think that's a "bad faith" reply. We all know what the evidence was when they finished the investigation and the WC presented it's report, but most of that evidence was not yet known within 48 hours after the assassination.

All they really knew was that Oswald had been arrested for the murder of officer Tippit and was later also charged with the murder of JFK. What they most certainly did not know and could not have known, when Katzenbach wrote his memo, was if there were other people involved.

Ask any murder investigator and he will tell you that you never ever rule out any possible scenario so early in an investigation, regardless of what the (at that point) available evidence seems to indicate. Investigators know that things don't always are as they initially seem to be.

So, Otto asking for the evidence they actually had on November 25th is a fair question.

What also isn't fair is the standard LN claim that CTs think that all the evidence was planted, faked or manufactured, when in fact it simply isn't true, at least not for most of the CTs I know.

[Richard Smith]

It seems the claim is that because at that early stage they hadn't fully looked into a possible conspiracy - and it's true, they hadn't; the FBI among others was still investigating matters, e.g., Mexico City - then Oswald shouldn't have been charged with the murder of JFK?

But that's silly (surprise): Even after charging Oswald that Saturday night they continued to investigate the crime. This was the murder of the president not the murder of a 7/11 clerk. Again, as we know the FBI, the CIA, the SS were continuing to investigate matters, to determine if he had help. Indicting him didn't end the entire investigation. They simply had sufficient evidence by Saturday night to charge him with the murder of JFK. What did they need to wait for? Whether someone else helped him? Or what exactly?

Even if they found later a conspiracy they could charge his accomplices and Oswald as well with conspiracy and other crimes.

Yes, and the FBI would not have just started investigating Oswald on 11.22.  He was a known political kook that they had been keeping tabs on for a while.  There would have been intelligence sources linking him to a plot with Russia or Cuba to kill the president.  Due to Oswald's kooky background, there was undoubtedly a very real concern that WWIII could be started on a false premise that Cuba or Russia was behind the assassination.  It is all the more humorous that many CTers make this rush to judgment claim when also suggesting that the objective of the conspiracy to assassinate JFK was to create a pretext for war with Cuba or Russia.  But in the aftermath, the entire responsibility is put on Oswald and any connection to Cuba/Russia is suppressed by these same conspirators.  HA HA HA. 

[Martin Weidmann]

Yes, and the FBI would not have just started investigating Oswald on 11.22.  He was a known political kook that they had been keeping tabs on for a while.  There would have been intelligence sources linking him to a plot with Russia or Cuba to kill the president.  Due to Oswald's kooky background, there was undoubtedly a very real concern that WWIII could be started on a false premise that Cuba or Russia was behind the assassination.  It is all the more humorous that many CTers make this rush to judgment claim when also suggesting that the objective of the conspiracy to assassinate JFK was to create a pretext for war with Cuba or Russia.  But in the aftermath, the entire responsibility is put on Oswald and any connection to Cuba/Russia is suppressed by these same conspirators.  HA HA HA.

Due to Oswald's kooky background, there was undoubtedly a very real concern that WWIII could be started on a false premise that Cuba or Russia was behind the assassination.

And how did they know that the premise was false? The answer is of course that they didn't, but they needed a patsy to keep up the pretense that Russia or Cuba were not involved even when they possibly were.

Which explains perfectly what Katzenbach wrote in his memo!

[Jon Banks]

Yes, and the FBI would not have just started investigating Oswald on 11.22.  He was a known political kook that they had been keeping tabs on for a while.  There would have been intelligence sources linking him to a plot with Russia or Cuba to kill the president.  Due to Oswald's kooky background, there was undoubtedly a very real concern that WWIII could be started on a false premise that Cuba or Russia was behind the assassination.  It is all the more humorous that many CTers make this rush to judgment claim when also suggesting that the objective of the conspiracy to assassinate JFK was to create a pretext for war with Cuba or Russia.  But in the aftermath, the entire responsibility is put on Oswald and any connection to Cuba/Russia is suppressed by these same conspirators.  HA HA HA.

No one could’ve predicted in advance of JFK’s murder that Lyndon Johnson, a southerner and rabid anti-communist, would respond to evidence of a potential communist conspiracy by covering it up in order to avoid a war.

Conventional Wisdom at the time was that Johnson was a bigger hawk than JFK.

What I find humorous is that some have argued that the government solved the case and ruled out a potential conspiracy within just few hours.

James Angelton, if we assume it was a good faith effort (and not an attempt to divert suspicions of his involvement to a different target), spent years chasing after the theory that the Soviets were involved. And many intelligence officers today still suspect that the Soviets and Cubans put Oswald up to it.

So no, it’s not reasonable to assume that Katzenbach’s memo was intended to shoot down talk of conspiracy theories because they didn’t have reason to suspect that others were involved. They chose to stick to the Lone Assassin narrative in spite of their suspicions.

[Richard Smith]

No one could’ve predicted in advance of JFK’s murder that Lyndon Johnson, a southerner and rabid anti-communist, would respond to evidence of a potential communist conspiracy by covering it up in order to avoid a war.

Conventional Wisdom at the time was that Johnson was a bigger hawk than JFK.

What I find humorous is that some have argued that the government solved the case and ruled out a potential conspiracy within just few hours.

James Angelton, if we assume it was a good faith effort (and not an attempt to divert suspicions of his involvement to a different target), spent years chasing after the theory that the Soviets were involved. And many intelligence officers today still suspect that the Soviets and Cubans put Oswald up to it.

So no, it’s not reasonable to assume that Katzenbach’s memo was intended to shoot down talk of conspiracy theories because they didn’t have reason to suspect that others were involved. They chose to stick to the Lone Assassin narrative in spite of their suspicions.

So the fantasy conspirators assassinated the US president, framed Oswald, and covered up the identity of the real assassins as a pretext to start a war with Cuba or Russia but then threw in the towel within 24 hours because LBJ was not on board?  Instead they immediately did a complete about face placed all the blame on Oswald and discounted the involvement of anyone else despite that being the entire purpose of murdering the president at enormous risk to themselves?  Come on!  LOL. 

[Jon Banks]

So the fantasy conspirators assassinated the US president, framed Oswald, and covered up the identity of the real assassins as a pretext to start a war with Cuba or Russia but then threw in the towel within 24 hours because LBJ was not on board?  Instead they immediately did a complete about face placed all the blame on Oswald and discounted the involvement of anyone else despite that being the entire purpose of murdering the president at enormous risk to themselves?  Come on!  LOL.

The Cuban Exile group, DRE, started connecting Oswald to Castro immediately after the assassination.

That doesn’t prove the DRE were involved with JFK’s assassination.

My point is, even if they only did it opportunistically, they knew that Oswald, a self-proclaimed Marxist-Leninist, shooting the President was useful to provoke US military action against Cuba.

If they saw it that way, why is it difficult to presume that others who wanted the US to invade Cuba might’ve had the same frame of mind?

—————-

On November 23, members of the Cuban Student Directorate, a CIA-funded organization based in Miami, published a special edition of their monthly magazine, Trinchera (Trenches), in which they linked the accused assassin Lee Oswald to Cuban president Fidel Castro.

This was the first JFK conspiracy scenario to reach public print...

https://jfkfacts.org/nov-23-1963-the-first-jfk-conspiracy-theory-paid-for-by-the-cia/