Last Second in Dallas

[Martin Weidmann]

So many words twisting like a pretzel.  Let's simplify.  EVEN if you want to believe that there was a premature conclusion that excluded consideration of the involvement of Russia and Cuba in the first days after the assassination, no such evidence has come to light in nearly six decades.  Other official and unofficial investigations have come to the same conclusion.  CTers have beaten the bushes for decades - and found nothing.  The US intelligence service has resources that extend beyond investigating Oswald.  Yet there is no evidence whatsoever of any involvement of Russia or Cuba.  That is the relevant point.  Whether Katzenbach was "premature" in reaching this conclusion is a rabbit hole tangent.  CTers require a conspiracy cover up to always avoid acknowledging the lack of evidence to support their pet theory.  The Catch-22 of dealing with JFK CTers.  We don't have the evidence because it was covered up.  The UFO line of bull.

That's not a simplification, it's just the same old BS you have been posting

EVEN if you want to believe that there was a premature conclusion that excluded consideration of the involvement of Russia and Cuba in the first days after the assassination, no such evidence has come to light in nearly six decades.

Meaningless statement, given the fact that within 48 hours after the assassination they decided Oswald did it alone causing a possible conspiracy ever being seriously investigated, which explains the lack of evidence.

Other official and unofficial investigations have come to the same conclusion.

All subsequent investigations used the same evidence as the WC did. Garbage in = Garbage out

The US intelligence service has resources that extend beyond investigating Oswald.

And what motivation would the US intelligence service have to investigate beyond Oswald, when they already know what the official story is? They have nothing to gain...

Whether Katzenbach was "premature" in reaching this conclusion is a rabbit hole tangent.

Katzenback wasn't alone in reaching that conclusion. Hoover reached the same conclusion on the 24th.

High ranking Government officials concluding there was no conspiracy within 24 to 48 hours after the assassination is highly relevant. Even more so since it clearly caused a limited investigation.

CTers require a conspiracy cover up to always avoid acknowledging the lack of evidence to support their pet theory. 

BS. LBJ wanted to avoid a war, yet still did not believe Oswald acted alone. There's the cover up for you.

[Richard Smith]

That's not a simplification, it's just the same old BS you have been posting

EVEN if you want to believe that there was a premature conclusion that excluded consideration of the involvement of Russia and Cuba in the first days after the assassination, no such evidence has come to light in nearly six decades.

Meaningless statement, given the fact that within 48 hours after the assassination they decided Oswald did it alone causing a possible conspiracy ever being seriously investigated, which explains the lack of evidence.

Other official and unofficial investigations have come to the same conclusion.

All subsequent investigations used the same evidence as the WC did. Garbage in = Garbage out

The US intelligence service has resources that extend beyond investigating Oswald.

And what motivation would the US intelligence service have to investigate beyond Oswald, when they already know what the official story is? They have nothing to gain...

Whether Katzenbach was "premature" in reaching this conclusion is a rabbit hole tangent.

Katzenback wasn't alone in reaching that conclusion. Hoover reached the same conclusion on the 24th.

High ranking Government officials concluding there was no conspiracy within 24 to 48 hours after the assassination is highly relevant. Even more so since it clearly caused a limited investigation.

CTers require a conspiracy cover up to always avoid acknowledging the lack of evidence to support their pet theory. 

BS. LBJ wanted to avoid a war, yet still did not believe Oswald acted alone. There's the cover up for you.

You are stuck on the rabbit hole tangent as to whether some individual prematurely came to the conclusion that there was no conspiracy.  That point was relevant six decades ago.  This is 2021, however, and with six decades of official and unofficial investigations there is no credible evidence of the involvement of the USSR or Cuba in the assassination.   The conspiracy theorist needs a cover up to explain why they never have any evidence to support their pet theory.  The answer is always because someone has precluded its recovery.  An endless loop of lunacy.  But knock yourself out like those UFO believers who make the same claim to explain why they never have any actual evidence of little green men.

[Jon Banks]

You are stuck on the rabbit hole tangent as to whether some individual prematurely came to the conclusion that there was no conspiracy.  That point was relevant six decades ago.  This is 2021, however, and with six decades of official and unofficial investigations there is no credible evidence of the involvement of the USSR or Cuba in the assassination.   The conspiracy theorist needs a cover up to explain why they never have any evidence to support their pet theory.  The answer is always because someone has precluded its recovery.  An endless loop of lunacy.  But knock yourself out like those UFO believers who make the same claim to explain why they never have any actual evidence of little green men.

The HSCA concluded that there probably was a conspiracy.

National Security insiders from RFK to John Kerry speculated that Oswald didn't act alone.

The US government now admits that UFOs are real.

US Report Can't Explain UFOs, But Says They're Likely Real and Possibly a National Security Threat
https://www.military.com/daily-news/2021/06/25/us-report-cant-explain-ufos-says-theyre-likely-real-and-possibly-national-security-threat.html

[Martin Weidmann]

You are stuck on the rabbit hole tangent as to whether some individual prematurely came to the conclusion that there was no conspiracy.  That point was relevant six decades ago.  This is 2021, however, and with six decades of official and unofficial investigations there is no credible evidence of the involvement of the USSR or Cuba in the assassination.   The conspiracy theorist needs a cover up to explain why they never have any evidence to support their pet theory.  The answer is always because someone has precluded its recovery.  An endless loop of lunacy.  But knock yourself out like those UFO believers who make the same claim to explain why they never have any actual evidence of little green men.

You seem to be one of those people who do not feed their dog and then wonder why the animal died of starvation.

If an investigation into a possible conspiracy is blocked within 48 hours, by Hoover and Katzenbach and others concluding - probably to avoid a possible war - that there had not been a conspiracy, you can not by any stretch of the imagination credibly ask for evidence of such a possible conspiracy to be produced.

The mere fact that a possible conspiracy, involving Russia and/or Cuba, was being considered in those early days should have triggered the biggest investigation ever. The fact that it didn't, to avoid a war, indicates that no good faith effort to uncover the truth was ever made.

[Jon Banks]

    "The report gives no indication the UAPs' [unidentified aerial phenomena] origins are extraterrestrial."

There's a difference between acknowledging UFOs as "unidentified" (the government has records of unidentified aerial phenomena going back to the 1940s) and then taking the final step based on "gut feeling" that they're from other planets.

It wasn't my intention to argue that the US government confirmed that extra-terrestrials are real. My point is, the government admits that the UFO phenomena is real and they don't rule out that it could be ET's.

So it's a little strange to call people CT'ers for speculating that the UFOs could be from other planets when no one seems to have an explanation for the source of the UAPs.

I personally believe the US government intentionally creates ambiguity around the UFO issue in order to cover their testing of new and advanced military technologies. They have admitted to doing so in the past.

1997 - C.I.A. Admits Government Lied About U.F.O. Sightings
https://www.nytimes.com/1997/08/03/us/cia-admits-government-lied-about-ufo-sightings.html

I'm not someone who thinks all the UFO reports are proof of extra-terrestrials but I don't think it's crazy or makes someone a "CT'er" to speculate that it could be.

Same with the "conspiracy" indications coming in the weekend of the Katzenbach memo. A "communist conspiracy" the Dallas police were pulling out of their ass and the "right-wing conspiracy" the Soviet press were pulling out of their ass. There was the fear that a political-based Congressional Committee would invent and parade a "communist conspiracy" by way of McCarthyism. When Katzenbach wrote his memo, there was no reason for high-up law enforcement and justice department officials to take the next step based on "gut feeling" and declare such "conspiracy" claims were legitimate especially when all the evidence being gathered pointed exclusively to Oswald's sole guilt.

Likewise, there was no reason to say "the public must be convinced that Oswald acted alone" hours after Oswald was killed, if they intended to fully investigate the case.

Let's make sure we're on the same page on this debate.


At the time of the Katzenbach memo, it was reasonable for them to assume that Oswald was guilty even though there were still some loose ends and they weren't aware that Oswald's palm print would soon be ID'd on the rifle (by Dallas PD not the FBI). Most of the criticism of the Dallas PD and the Warren Report didn't surface until after the Report was published. So there was no large constituency of people at the time of the memo, who thought Oswald might be innocent.

So why even write the memo?


Because there was a huge amount of speculation, even in the White House, that others were involved. Mountains of evidence support my view. We know about J Edgar Hoover's phone calls with LBJ that weekend. We know about RFK's conversation with CIA director, McCone. We know that high level intelligence officials in Mexico City were alarmed by reports about Oswald's trip (his meeting with KGB people and rumors that he threatened to kill JFK while in MC).

So while it was reasonable for Katzenbach and others to presume that Oswald was "guilty" 48 hours after the assassination, it was not reasonable for them to conclude that no one else was involved at that stage of the investigation. They had reasons for their suspicions about a Communist conspiracy and it wasn't limited to Oswald having lived in the USSR.

The Katzenbach Memo and Johnson's instructions to Earl Warren prove that they never intended to publicly address concerns about conspiracy in JFK's assassination by conducting a good faith investigation.

Privately, due to the information we've learned in the decades since, we know that they were very concerned about a conspiracy.

[Jerry Freeman]

... due to Oswald's background and connection to the Soviet Union, many Americans initially speculated that it might have been a Communist conspiracy. President Johnson was among those who speculated that it could be a communist conspiracy. They had no way of ruling out that possibility within just 48 hours. 

This was among the files released and posted yesterday-----
https://www.archives.gov/files/research/jfk/releases/2021/docid-32107844.pdf
It mentions a $100K bounty on the life of JFK. It didn't seem like anyone was all that excited about it.
I believe that LBJ knew damn well right from the start that there was no Soviet plot.

[Rick Plant]

This was among the files released and posted yesterday-----
https://www.archives.gov/files/research/jfk/releases/2021/docid-32107844.pdf
It mentions a $100K bounty on the life of JFK. It didn't seem like anyone was all that excited about it.
I believe that LBJ knew damn well right from the start that there was no Soviet plot.

The Soviets goal was always to control America. 

[Jerry Freeman]

The Soviets goal was always to control America.

Who told you that?