A Game-Changing Document

[Charles Collins]

What you've said here doesn't negate what I or Malcolm blunt have said. The fbi were in an awful hurry to get the evidence on the evening of the assassination, then lies were told about just how much evidence they took.

The fbi had no jurisdiction in this case. They didn't behave this way for other murders that took place in Dallas.

LBJ was instructing JEH to stay close to the case and assist as much as possible to help solve it. And JEH instructed his agents accordingly. There is no doubt that the FBI’s resources helped speed up the process. DPD did not have to turn anything over to the FBI. But they decided to let the FBI process some of the first day evidence with the understanding that it would be returned in one day. I am not convinced that there were lies regarding what specific evidence was taken.

This was not an ordinary case by any stretch of the imagination. The FBI was behaving according to how LBJ and JEH instructed them to. These were extraordinary circumstances.

[Charles Collins]

The sequence is bizarre. The fbi took the evidence and then gave it back to the dpd. That's not normal. I think there was stuff in that evidence the fbi did not want the dpd cataloging.

The FBI laboratories routinely processed all kinds of evidence for most any local police department who might need their services. Their top notch equipment and expertise was and is some of the best in the world. It is perfectly understandable why LBJ and JEH would be anxious to get some of the JFK assassination evidence to one of the best facilities that existed at that time. It would be normal for them to return the evidence to the local police departments after processing it. Especially when the local police departments had jurisdiction and needed the evidence back to present in court.

You can believe whatever you wish. But I haven’t seen any credible evidence of what you are suggesting.

[Gerry Down]

The FBI laboratories routinely processed all kinds of evidence for most any local police department who might need their services. Their top notch equipment and expertise was and is some of the best in the world. It is perfectly understandable why LBJ and JEH would be anxious to get some of the JFK assassination evidence to one of the best facilities that existed at that time. It would be normal for them to return the evidence to the local police departments after processing it. Especially when the local police departments had jurisdiction and needed the evidence back to present in court.

You can believe whatever you wish. But I haven’t seen any credible evidence of what you are suggesting.

But the fbi didn't process it properly. They didn't desilver some of the evidence which is why some of lhos cards have red blotches all over them.

Also I have never seen any evidence that lbj was ordering hoover as early as the evening of Nov 22nd to take the evidence. But they surely did talk while lbj was flying back to Washington. What they talked about I'm not sure.

Also, hosty was told not to cooperate with the dpd anymore after that first and only interview he had with lho at about 3pm on Nov 22nd. That to me says rather than trying to help the dpd, the fbi were impeding them.

[Charles Collins]

But the fbi didn't process it properly. They didn't desilver some of the evidence which is why some of lhos cards have red blotches all over them.

Also I have never seen any evidence that lbj was ordering hoover as early as the evening of Nov 22nd to take the evidence. But they surely did talk while lbj was flying back to Washington. What they talked about I'm not sure.

Also, hosty was told not to cooperate with the dpd anymore after that first and only interview he had with lho at about 3pm on Nov 22nd. That to me says rather than trying to help the dpd, the fbi were impeding them.

Also I have never seen any evidence that lbj was ordering hoover as early as the evening of Nov 22nd to take the evidence.

Here’s the next paragraph of Vincent Drain’s interview by Larry Sneed in his book “No More Silence” that I partially quoted in an earlier post in this thread:

Fortunately the commanding general over at Carswell in Fort Worth happened to be a good friend of mine and was head of SAC (Strategic Air Command) at that time. So I called him and was told that the President had asked him to give us all the help that we needed. Another agent took me to Fort Worth where they had a C-135 tanker plane and crew ready.

This should give you an idea of how involved LBJ was regarding getting the evidence to the FBI laboratories.

Who supposedly instructed Hosty not to cooperate with the DPD? What is the evidence of this?

[Gerry Down]

Who supposedly instructed Hosty not to cooperate with the DPD? What is the evidence of this?

Hosty has said this in numerous interviews. In one he suggests it was someone high in Washington who gave the order for hosty to stop cooperating. He was never told why.

Trying to figure out the why in all this is tricky. But I think it's important to keep an open mind and keep all possibilities on the table.

[Charles Collins]

Hosty has said this in numerous interviews. In one he suggests it was someone high in Washington who gave the order for hosty to stop cooperating. He was never told why.

Trying to figure out the why in all this is tricky. But I think it's important to keep an open mind and keep all possibilities on the table.

I have found that first hand accounts from the actual people who were at the scenes where events were happening interest me the most. I don’t know why I had failed to read James Hosty’s accounts until now. But, now that I have read it, I think that his book “Assignment Oswald” is terrific! And if you are trying to figure out why, this book offers some explanations that make a lot of sense to me. So, if you have the opportunity to read it, I do recommend it. Hosty explains things well and sheds a lot of light on some of the behind the scenes maneuvering by the opposing factions in the various organizations involved. I will show a few excerpts from the book in response to the issues you have brought up in this thread. And I suggest reading the book yourself for a more complete assessment.

This is what happened at the FBI office just shortly after LHO was arrested and identified:

Shanklin was quiet for a few minutes, listening to the person on the other end. Then Shanklin put his hand over the phone and said, “I got Belmont on the phone. He wants you, Hosty, to get down to the police department and take part in the interrogation of Oswald. Also, Belmont wants you to cooperate fully with the police and give them any information we have on Oswald. Get going. Now.” Since Alan Belmont was the third in command of the Bureau, this was a significant order. I left Shanklin’s office, and as I headed for the door to leave I heard Howe on another phone with Agent Dick Harrison, who was at the police station: “Harrison, tell Assistant Police Chief Stevenson that Hosty is on his way, that he’s our agent on the Oswald file. He’s going to help in the interrogation of Oswald.”

And this is Hosty’s version of a part of his encounter with Revill at the police station:

Revill and I never really got along, and disagreed often. Now I just couldn’t contain myself, so, in a fit of utter frustration with Revill and everything in the world generally, I blurted, “Jack, the Lee you’re talking about is Lee Oswald. He killed Tippit. He’s a Communist and he probably killed Kennedy, too. He’s under arrest right now upstairs!” Revill jerked his head in my direction and shouted, “What the hell did you say? A Communist killed Kennedy! I can’t believe that!” Revill was an avid John Bircher-type conservative, and he absolutely detested Kennedy. So to tell him that a Communist had killed the man he regarded as a Communist sympathizer must have felt like a dull blow to the head. Revill also knew that I was a lifelong Democrat, and that I had voted for Kennedy. Revill and I had had many arguments over politics, which frequently ended in shouting matches. I was constantly having to argue that Kennedy was really pro-American. In fact, just the day before, Revill and I had discussed the president’s forthcoming trip to Dallas and the security detail. The Secret Service wanted to utilize numerous Dallas police officers to help with security, and Revill wanted no part of it. “I don’t want to guard that son of a As I was walking a' alane, I heard twa corbies makin' a mane. The tane untae the tither did say, Whaur sail we gang and dine the day, O. Whaur sail we gang and dine the day?  It's in ahint yon auld fail dyke I wot there lies a new slain knight; And naebody kens that he lies there But his hawk and his hound, and his lady fair, O. But his hawk and his hound, and his lady fair.  His hound is to the hunting gane His hawk to fetch the wild-fowl hame, His lady ta'en anither mate, So we may mak' our dinner swate, O. So we may mak' our dinner swate.  Ye'll sit on his white hause-bane, And I'll pike oot his bonny blue e'en Wi' ae lock o' his gowden hair We'll theek oor nest when it grows bare, O. We'll theek oor nest when it grows bare.  There's mony a ane for him maks mane But nane sail ken whaur he is gane O'er his white banes when they are bare The wind sail blaw for evermair, O. The wind sail blaw for evermair.'. I think I might call in sick,” he had said.

And here is part of the interrogation of LHO that Hosty was involved with:

“How long were you in Russia?” “About three years.” “What did you do there?” “Why don’t you ask Hosty? He can probably tell you everything you want to know about me,” Oswald said with a smart-aleck smile. Fritz was starting to get a little frustrated, and again he turned and looked at me. I stopped taking notes and looked up at him. “Captain, I can explain all of this later. Why don’t you just continue?” Fritz shook his head and, clearly agitated, said, “Do you have any questions I should ask Lee, Mr. Hosty?” I decided it was probably best to go ahead and ask some of my own questions. I thought for just a moment and decided to ask Oswald about the communique I had just received today relating that Oswald had been in contact with the Soviet Embassy in Mexico City. I started off with what I thought was a rather general and innocuous question. Out of deference to Fritz, I said, “Ask him if he has ever been in Mexico City.” Fritz turned toward Oswald and said, “Tell us about that, Lee.” Oswald hesitated for just a moment, then answered, “Sure. Sure, I’ve been to Mexico. When I was stationed in San Diego with the Marines, a couple of my buddies and I would occasionally drive down to Tijuana over a weekend.” “No, not Tijuana. Mexico City. Captain, ask have you ever been to Mexico City,” I persisted. Oswald was visibly upset. “What makes you think I’ve been to Mexico City? I’ve never been there. I deny that.” He was shaking his head, and he was starting to sweat now. I knew I had touched a nerve. The door next to me flung open, and another police detective poked his head in. “Captain Fritz, they’re ready for the lineup now.” Fritz jumped up and said, “Okay, let’s take a break and go do this lineup.”


And here is what happened before LHO returned from the lineup:

TIME: 4:25 P.M. Harlan Brown, a senior agent in my squad, hurried up to me in the hallway. “Hosty! Come here. You are not to go back in on the interrogation of Oswald, and you are not to provide any information we have about Oswald to the police. Do you understand?” I was dumbfounded, but I said yes, I understood. This was in direct contradiction to what Alan Belmont, Hoover’s senior assistant, had ordered. But Brown was dead serious and was clutching my elbow tightly. It became clear to me that Belmont’s order had been countermanded, and that probably meant that either the Old Man — Hoover—had taken over control of the investigation, or that the White House had. I shuddered at the thought of Hoover personally supervising my work here in Dallas.

[Gerry Down]

And here is what happened before LHO returned from the lineup:

TIME: 4:25 P.M. Harlan Brown, a senior agent in my squad, hurried up to me in the hallway. “Hosty! Come here. You are not to go back in on the interrogation of Oswald, and you are not to provide any information we have about Oswald to the police. Do you understand?” I was dumbfounded, but I said yes, I understood. This was in direct contradiction to what Alan Belmont, Hoover’s senior assistant, had ordered. But Brown was dead serious and was clutching my elbow tightly. It became clear to me that Belmont’s order had been countermanded, and that probably meant that either the Old Man — Hoover—had taken over control of the investigation, or that the White House had. I shuddered at the thought of Hoover personally supervising my work here in Dallas.

I think this order was given when the FBI realized LHO had been working with DeBrueys in New Orleans that summer.

[Charles Collins]

I think this order was given when the FBI realized LHO had been working with DeBrueys in New Orleans that summer.

Based on things that he learned later, Hosty makes a reasonable case that he believes that it had to do with the top FBI officials trying to keep a lid on the Mexico City aspects of the case. Here’s another excerpt from “Assignment Oswald”:

“Ken, how did Shanklin find out about the Oswald note so fast?” I asked. Howe explained that after Oswald was arrested and his picture was shown on all the TV stations, Fenner recognized him as the guy who had brought the note in ten days ago. She reminded Clark about the note, but Clark couldn’t recall it. Then Fenner told Howe and Shanklin.

In 1979 I learned from Clark that he had received a call the day of the assassination from Bill Sullivan, one of Hoover’s other top assistants, who told him to make sure I did not see the communique from the D.C. field office about Oswald writing to the Soviet Embassy in Washington. Clark then told Howe to keep the communique — which had just arrived the day of the assassination — and any others concerning Mexico City from me. Howe knew I had already seen the communique that afternoon, but he decided to remove it and other related memos from my file drawer so I couldn’t see it again. Going through my file drawer, Howe came across the Oswald note and took it to Shanklin. Howe said Shanklin instantly became livid. How was this going to appear to the public, and especially to Hoover, he wanted to know. I told Howe I still didn’t think the note was that big a deal, and what we had to do was put it in context. Howe shrugged. I went back to my desk and began reviewing my Oswald file again.