Questions For Buell Wesley Frazier

[Alan Ford]

So! Mr Von Pein looks at the document below and 'solves' the problem of its dates and times in the following............ time-bending way:

The curtain rods were submitted by Agent Howlett to Lt. Day
-----------EITHER a good half a day BEFORE Agent Howlett extracted them from the Paine garage (=the 23 March option)
-----------OR nearly two hours AFTER they were released by Lt. Day back to Agent Howlett (=the 24 March option)

ALAN FORD SAID:

Is this really the best you can do, Mr Von Pein?

DAVID VON PEIN SAID:

..................................................

[David Von Pein]

@A. Ford....

Why are you so fascinated with that curtain rod document?

Regardless of the dates mentioned, it's a document that is obviously referring to the curtain rods that were taken down from a shelf (on the WC record) in Ruth Paine's garage on the evening of March 23, 1964 [see 9 H 424].

The document even mentions the exact Warren Commission exhibit numbers assigned to the 2 Paine rods (Ruth Paine Exhibit Nos. 275 & 276).

What is it you're trying to prove by bringing up that document anyway, Mr. Ford? You're not trying to imply that Ruth Paine's on-the-record 3/23/64 testimony from her garage is somehow phony, are you? Where are you attempting to go with it?

To complicate the document's dates even more, did you, Alan Ford, see my earlier post in this thread talking about the additional version of the document you have been fixated on? It seems the "March 24" date on the document is also dated "March 26" in the alternate version (seen at my post below):

https://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php/topic,3326.msg122181.html#msg122181

[Jerry Organ]

Mr. DAY. There was a scar on the top of or the top side of this box that was sitting there. I noticed that at the time. I thought the recoil of the gun had caused that. I later decided that was in the wrong direction. It was not the recoil of the gun but I did notice this scar on the box.

Translation: upon arrival to the SN the box "scar", arrangement of shells and shooting "logic" would have had the assassin shooting as JFK approached on Houston. Therefore the right strip was removed for analysis. I believe this is the one that broke around the 30 inch mark.

Did Day ever say he initially thought the shooter might have fired some or all shots down on Houston? I don't see why Day would figure the shooter fired even one shot out of the right-side window if it was closed and the "gun rest" cartons were at the left-side window?

Note the missing strip on the right but not the left in the photo below.



I believe this piece is referenced below.



I am still trying to locate the doc in my files that mentions two pieces indicating that a break occurred around a nail hole.

I believe the weather strips were left alone until sometime between late-Saturday and the taking of the Nov. 25th pictures which appear to show the left-side strip having been removed.

[John Iacoletti]

Why are you so fascinated with that curtain rod document?

You don't find it odd that these curtain rods were submitted into evidence and checked for Oswald's (why just Oswald's?) prints 8 DAYS BEFORE they were officially "found" in Ruth's garage? 

[David Von Pein]

You don't find it odd that these curtain rods were submitted into evidence and checked for Oswald's (why just Oswald's?) prints 8 DAYS BEFORE they were officially "found" in Ruth's garage?

They weren't. They were submitted into evidence (and marked as Paine Exhibits 275/276) on March 23. We know that for a fact because we have the detailed word-for-word transcript of Ruth's testimony that I linked earlier (9 H 424). Therefore, the March 15th date is quite clearly an error.

[Colin Crow]

Did Day ever say he initially thought the shooter might have fired some or all shots down on Houston? I don't see why Day would figure the shooter fired even one shot out of the right-side window if it was closed and the "gun rest" cartons were at the left-side window?



I believe the weather strips were left alone until sometime between late-Saturday and the taking of the Nov. 25th pictures which appear to show the left-side strip having been removed.

Numerous officers felt that JFK had been shot while approaching the TSBD. Many thought that for years after. When the SN was originally discovered none there knew the position of the car at the time of the shooting. The position of the shells is consistent with shots towards Houston. I never said Day thought he shot out the right window. But maybe they felt the shooter was positioned behind the window and shooting out the left side. The "scar" indicated shots towards Houston from the right side. That's why he made the comment in his WC testimony. It was only later that they realised the scar was not consistent with the car position.

Your yellow lines are not indicative of the thin strip. There are thin strips that are positioned at the front of the frame. They are visible in both windows in the Studebaker photo taken on 11/22. The strip on the right is missing in the later photo.

[Alan Ford]

They weren't. They were submitted into evidence (and marked as Paine Exhibits 275/276) on March 23. We know that for a fact because we have the detailed word-for-word transcript of Ruth's testimony that I linked earlier (9 H 424). Therefore, the March 15th date is quite clearly an error.

So you keep saying, Mr Von Pein. And yet when pressed to suggest what the 'correct date' might have been, you end up checkmated into the following absurd either/or 'solution':

The curtain rods were submitted by Agent Howlett to Lt. Day
-----------EITHER a good half a day BEFORE Agent Howlett extracted them from the Paine garage (=your 23 March option)
-----------OR nearly two hours AFTER they were released by Lt. Day back to Agent Howlett (=your 24 March option)

In other words, you tell us that the March 15th date is quite clearly an error.......only to hypothesize in its place
--------a March 23rd date that would quite clearly be an impossibility
--------a March 24th date that would quite clearly be an impossibility.

Do you believe in time travel, Mr Von Pein?

[Jerry Organ]

Numerous officers felt that JFK had been shot while approaching the TSBD. Many thought that for years after. When the SN was originally discovered none there knew the position of the car at the time of the shooting. The position of the shells is consistent with shots towards Houston. I never said Day thought he shot out the right window. But maybe they felt the shooter was positioned behind the window and shooting out the left side. The "scar" indicated shots towards Houston from the right side. That's why he made the comment in his WC testimony. It was only later that they realised the scar was not consistent with the car position.

The "scar" doesn't point down towards Houston. If the Carcano rifle caused the "scar" (while pointed down Elm), it might be from the forward corner of the trigger-guard housing resting on top of the box and somehow gouging the cardboard, possibly from steadying the rifle or the recoil. Later on, Day knew a direct backward recoil wouldn't account for the "scar". But the Carcano doesn't have much of a recoil and the rifle could have been moved a bit sideways when lifted.

Your yellow lines are not indicative of the thin strip. There are thin strips that are positioned at the front of the frame. They are visible in both windows in the Studebaker photo taken on 11/22. The strip on the right is missing in the later photo.

The only strips I'm aware are along the interior side of the base of the frame. That would be the "back" of the frame, the side visible to photographers standing inside.