Are these two photos legit?

[Walt Cakebread]

I’m sure this has been discussed before...
If these two photos are legit, how are the different “sniper nest" box setups explained?

AND if the president is going by, why would anyone take a picture of these two guys on the fifth floor?
Who took both photos?

Compare the horizontal white strip of the window sash above BRW's head in both photos ......The wider strip would indicate that the sun was lower in the sky.    ( Conversely, the narrower strip would mean that the sun was higher in the sky.  )   

If the Powell and Dillard Photos were taken within just 30 seconds of each other, then there should be NO noticeable difference of the width of that white strip....But it is obviously wider in the Powell photo....

[Dan O'meara]

I was referencing the two OP photos taken just after the assassination.  There is no conceivable reason for anyone to have moved some boxes between those photos in the moments after the assassination.  No one has articulated any such explanation.

I know what you were referencing.
I was referencing the same OP photos.
That BRW is pretty much in the same position in both photos strongly indicates the pics were taken seconds apart and not minutes apart.
As such, the idea that boxes were moved around in the seconds between the pictures seems nonsensical.

In terms of the investigation, the 6th floor was full of boxes.  The DPD no doubt moved some items in their search for evidence.  I'm not sure that is incompetence given that they had to search the building to figure out what had happened.  Maybe it would be done differently today but we also have six decades of hindsight to criticize.  They were working blind in the moment.

The second Mooney stepped into the SN and realized the shots had been fired from there, that whole area became a crime scene and should have been protected as such until the Crime Lab arrived to document and analyse the crime scene.
In a truly staggering display of investigative incompetence:

1) The Sniper's Nest, the barricade specifically constructed by the assassin to hide his location during the shooting, WAS NOT PHOTOGRAPHED/DOCUMENTED IN IT'S ORIGINAL POSITION. At least one stack of boxes had been removed before any photos were taken.

2) The Sniper's Perch, the arrangement of boxes used by the assassin to rest the rifle on, WAS NOT PHOTOGRAPHED/DOCUMENTED IN IT'S ORIGINAL POSITION. Instead, re-staged photographs of these boxes were entered as evidence.

3) The long paper sack supposedly used to carry the rifle in WAS NOT PHOTOGRAPHED/DOCUMENTED IN IT'S ORIGINAL POSITION. Instead, a photograph with a drawing on it of where the bag might have been was entered as evidence.

4) Bonnie Ray Williams' lunch remains WERE NOT PHOTOGRAPHED/DOCUMENTED IN THEIR ORIGINAL POSITION. Instead, the half-eaten piece of chicken, initially discovered on top of one of the stacks that formed the SN, was placed in the lunch sack (also initially discovered on the same stack) and moved around 25ft away, where it was stuffed down the side of a two-wheeler trolley.

There is also very strong testimonial evidence that the empty shells were moved before being photographed by the Crime Lab.
Not one piece of evidence pertaining to the location of the assassination was documented correctly. It was the murder of the President and it was the worst investigation possible.
You might put this down to it being the 1960's, but to imagine there weren't certain standards and protocols in place regarding the investigation of a homicide, during the '60's, demonstrates a massive amount of naivety on your behalf.

It is possibly the worst, most staggeringly incompetent investigation of a murder I have ever heard of. That you can brush it off so easily says a lot about you and how you view this case.

I don't see anything they did as influencing the conclusion that Oswald was the assassin.  When all is said and done, Oswald's rifle was left at the crime scene.  Fired bullet casings from that rifle were found by the window from which the shots were fired.

I don't see anything they did as influencing the conclusion that Oswald was the assassin

Of course you don't, you're a zealot. You are completely blinkered to anything that challenges your spoon-fed beliefs.

When all is said and done, Oswald's rifle was left at the crime scene.

What a perfect way to frame someone.

[Richard Smith]

Can you show us a photo that shows no assassin in the 6th floor window at 12:30?

Yes!! It's the Dillard Photo , and  it's been posted hundreds of times......  The problem with the Powell  / Dillard photos is:.... Folks simply will not believe their eyes....

Tom Dillard snapped the photo DURING the shooting  ( the first shot got his attention , just as the first shot alerted officer Marrion Baker )  Dillard looked up, just as Baker had looked up, and Dillard saw a man behind a fifth floor window (BRW) and he snapped the shutter.   What Dillard captured on film was the FACT that there was NOBODY aiming a rifle out of that sixth floor window at that time.

You believe that the Dillard photo proves that there was no one in the 6th window at the moment of the assassination?  That is unreal logic.  Robert Jackson saw a rifle in the window at the moment the shots were fired.  He directed Dillard's attention to that window which is WHY the photo was taken in the first place.  There would be absolutely no reason to single out that window for a photo at that moment unless he had cause to believe that is where the shots came from.  The photo is taken AFTER the assassination which is why it doesn't show the shooter.  The fact that it was taken at all lends itself to the conclusion that there was a shooter in that window.  There were hundreds of such windows in DP.   There would be no reason whatsoever to take a photo of that particular window unless there was cause to believe that is where the shots came from.  Numerous witnesses saw a person or the rifle in that window at the moment of the assassination.  BRW and the others on the 5th floor heard the shots and operation of the rifle right above their heads.  It is conclusive that a person was in the 6th SN at the moment of the assassination and fired the shots.

[Walt Cakebread]

I know what you were referencing.
I was referencing the same OP photos.
That BRW is pretty much in the same position in both photos strongly indicates the pics were taken seconds apart and not minutes apart.
As such, the idea that boxes were moved around in the seconds between the pictures seems nonsensical.

The second Mooney stepped into the SN and realized the shots had been fired from there, that whole area became a crime scene and should have been protected as such until the Crime Lab arrived to document and analyse the crime scene.
In a truly staggering display of investigative incompetence:

1) The SN, the barricade specifically constructed by the assassin to hide his location during the shooting, WAS NOT PHOTOGRAPHED/DOCUMENTED IN IT'S ORIGINAL POSITION. At least one stack of boxes had been removed before any photos were taken.

2) The Sniper's Perch, the arrangement of boxes used by the assassin to rest the rifle on, WAS NOT PHOTOGRAPHED/DOCUMENTED IN IT'S ORIGINAL POSITION. Instead, re-staged photographs of these boxes were entered as evidence.

3) The long paper sack supposedly used to carry the rifle in WAS NOT PHOTOGRAPHED/DOCUMENTED IN IT'S ORIGINAL POSITION. Instead, a photograph with a drawing on it of where the bag might have been was entered as evidence.

4) Bonnie Ray Williams' lunch remains WERE NOT PHOTOGRAPHED/DOCUMENTED IN THEIR ORIGINAL POSITION. Instead, the half-eaten piece of chicken, initially discovered on top of one of the stacks that formed the SN, was placed in the lunch sack (also initially discovered on the same stack) and moved around 25ft away, where it was stuffed down the side of a two-wheeler trolley.

There is also very strong testimonial evidence that the empty shells were moved before being photographed by the Crime Lab.
Not one piece of evidence pertaining to the location of the assassination was documented correctly. It was the murder of the President and it was the worst investigation possible.
You might put this down to it being the 1960's, but to imagine there weren't certain standards and protocols in place regarding the investigation of a homicide, during the '60's, demonstrates a massive amount of naivety on your behalf.

It is possibly the worst, most staggeringly incompetent investigation of a murder I have ever heard of. That you can brush it off so easily says a lot about you and how you view this case.

I don't see anything they did as influencing the conclusion that Oswald was the assassin

Of course you don't, you're a zealot. You are completely blinkered to anything that challenge your spoon-fed beliefs.

When all is said and done, Oswald's rifle was left at the crime scene.

What a perfect way to frame someone.

That BRW is pretty much in the same position in both photos strongly indicates the pics were taken seconds apart and not minutes apart.

"That BRW is pretty much in the same position in both photos "

Doesn't this seem odd to you?   Is it possible that BRW was added to the Powell  photo?   The shadows indicate that the Powell and Dillard photo were taken minutes a part.....The sun doesn't lie.... But men do.

[Dan O'meara]

That BRW is pretty much in the same position in both photos strongly indicates the pics were taken seconds apart and not minutes apart.

"That BRW is pretty much in the same position in both photos "

Doesn't this seem odd to you?   Is it possible that BRW was added to the Powell  photo?   The shadows indicate that the Powell and Dillard photo were taken minutes a part.....The sun doesn't lie.... But men do.

Doesn't this seem odd to you?

No. The pics are taken seconds apart. That's why it's not odd.
It would be odd if the pics were taken minutes apart and BRW stayed frozen in the same position all that time.

Is it possible that BRW was added to the Powell  photo?

Really, Walt?
Have a think about that for a second. It shouldn't take too long before you realise what a poor idea this is.

The shadows indicate that the Powell and Dillard photo were taken minutes a part.

Only in your imagination Walt.
As has already been explained to you, the variance in thickness of the bottom of the window is caused by the diffusion of the white colour in the Powell pic, which you can clearly see is of an inferior quality to the Dillard pic.

I've chosen the same window at random from each photo to demonstrate the point. Look at how thick the cross-member of the window is in Powell pic compared to the Dillard pic. This has nothing to do with the movement of the sun. It is created by the diffusion of the white colour in the Powell pic:

pic sharingimage host

[Walt Cakebread]

The table shows the sun position from 12:20-12:40. Azimuth changes almost 6 degrees over this short time span, while altitude changes very little. The animation simulates a view similar to Powell’s view. There is no noticeable change in the window shadow over this time period. I don’t know why there is an apparent difference between Dillard and Powell, but it is not due to sun position the best I can tell.

I don’t know why there is an apparent difference between Dillard and Powell, but it is not due to sun position the best I can tell.

James, is it possible that BRW was cropped from a Dillard photo and then added to the Powell photo... And in the process the person who altered the Powell photo cut some of the white off the bottom of the window above BRW's head and therefore the white strip is narrower.  The decorative cornice above and east of the window where BRW is seen, is casting a shadow onto the face of the TSBD.

 I've tried for years to determine the precise spot for that shadow on the face of the TSBD.  I'm 99% certain that it falls on the fifth row of bricks below the sixth floor window ledge in the Dillard photo ...But I can't determine where that shadow is striking the building in the Powell photo.

In the Dillard  photo the point of the shadow from the cornice, appears to strike the building on a vertical line about one brick west of a vertical line drawn between the east side of the 5th and sixth floor windows.   ....but the Powell photo isn't clear enough to locate where that shadow falls.   

[Walt Cakebread]

Well, we know you lie. In this case, you're continuing to cherry-pick and use (even after it's been pointed out to you) the light-infused fuzzy version of the Powell photo to make your false claim the Powell photo shows the sunlit portion of the window frame above BRW significantly larger. Anything goes if it's in-service of your wider fantasy of a LBJ/Hoover assassination coup.


Years ago, I thought there might be a detectable change in the shadow on the fire escape (Powell photo on bottom).

I thought there might be a detectable change in the shadow on the fire escape

You thought right.....Using the fire escape support brace as a reference point ....The shadow from the roof edge falls about 2 feet below the support brace on the fire escape in the Powell photo ....    And that shadow strikes the fire escape about 18 inches below that support brace in the Dillard photo.

[Walt Cakebread]

Well, we know you lie. In this case, you're continuing to cherry-pick and use (even after it's been pointed out to you) the light-infused fuzzy version of the Powell photo to make your false claim the Powell photo shows the sunlit portion of the window frame above BRW significantly larger. Anything goes if it's in-service of your wider fantasy of a LBJ/Hoover assassination coup.


Years ago, I thought there might be a detectable change in the shadow on the fire escape (Powell photo on bottom).
[ quote]

Well, we know you lie.

I do not lie about anything in this case...  I believe that lying is self defeating.    If I lie about some aspect of this case just to satisfy my ego and I convince someone that the lie is the truth...then that person may form a distorted picture that warps the true picture.

I'm sure that I have made mistakes and formed distorted images of the case.... But I do not lie.