Are these two photos legit?

[Dan O'meara]

Thanks Dan. Actually, I have seen that collection of Alyea statements and just did not remember the part about Studebaker placing the hulls, after the rifle was discovered and before taking the crime scene photos of the hulls. I’m pretty sure those crime scene photos of the hulls taken by Day and Studebaker were taken just after they arrived to the sixth floor about 13:15 (from memory), before the rifle was discovered.

Alyea repeats this account in an email exchange with Tom Rossley [http://www.whokilledjfk.net/tom_alyea_film.htm]:

"When Lt. Day started dusting the Rifle, Capt. Fritz reached into the pocket and retrieved the three shell casing he had taken from the Sniper’s Nest and handed them to Studebaker, with the instruction to include them in his photos he would be taking of the Shooting Site at the Southeast window, while Lt. Day dusted the Rifle where it was found. We all watched Lt. Day dust the Rifle as I filmed it. I still have photos of this. Studebaker was alone at the Shooting Site. He had not seen the original location of the casings, so he tossed them on the floor, and this is the photo that is recorded for history."

[Dan O'meara]

 Alyea's account of Fritz picking up the shell casings is confirmed by the testimony of Deputy Sheriff Luke Mooney.
As a result of the investigation on the 6th floor there is no photographic evidence of the original position of the shell casings.
There is no photographic evidence for the original position of the bag that was supposed to contain the rifle.
There is no photographic evidence for the original position of the boxes that make up the Sniper's Perch.
There is no photographic evidence for the original position of Williams' lunch remains.

Can this really be put down to insane levels of incompetence?
Is Fritz picking up the shell casings incompetence?

[Charles Collins]

Alyea's account of Fritz picking up the shell casings is confirmed by the testimony of Deputy Sheriff Luke Mooney.
As a result of the investigation on the 6th floor there is no photographic evidence of the original position of the shell casings.
There is no photographic evidence for the original position of the bag that was supposed to contain the rifle.
There is no photographic evidence for the original position of the boxes that make up the Sniper's Perch.
There is no photographic evidence for the original position of Williams' lunch remains.

Can this really be put down to insane levels of incompetence?
Is Fritz picking up the shell casings incompetence?

…there is no photographic evidence of the original position of the shell casings.


There is testimony that conflicts with your assessment.



Mr. BELIN. Would you circle the three hulls on Exhibit 716? Do you know whether or not Exhibit 716 and Exhibit 715 were taken before these hulls were moved?
Mr. DAY. They were taken before anything was moved, to the best of my knowledge. I was advised when I got there nothing had been moved.
Mr. BELIN. Who so advised you?
Mr. DAY. I believe it was Detective Sims standing there, but I could be wrong about that.



Mr. Ball.
And what did you see?
Mr. Sims.
We saw the boxes stacked up about--I don't know--three or four stacks high and found three empty hulls laying there next to the wall of the Elm Street side of the building, the front of the building.
Mr. Ball.
Who was there when you saw them?
Mr. Sims.
Well, there was two or three officers was there when we got there, and I believe the officer that found them was still there. I have his name here someplace.
Mr. Ball.
Was he a deputy sheriff?
Mr. Sims.
Yes, he was a deputy sheriff.
Mr. Ball.
And who else--Luke Mooney?
Mr. Sims.
Yes--there was two or three officers there besides us--I don't know who all.
Mr. Ball.
And did Luke tell you whether or not he had moved the hulls or not?
Mr. Sims.
He said he had left them like he had found them.
Mr. Ball.
Did you take a picture of those hulls?
Mr. Sims.
Lieutenant Day did, I believe.
Mr. Ball.
Was he there right at the time?
Mr. Sims.
No, sir; he didn't get there until a few minutes later.
Mr. Ball.
Did you see the picture taken of the hulls?
Mr. Sims.
Yes, sir.
Mr. Ball.
You saw Day take the pictures, did you?
Mr. Sims.
Yes, sir.
Mr. Ball.
He was the cameraman, was he?
Mr. Sims.
Well, there was another one there too. Actually, it was Detective Studebaker that works for him.
Mr. Ball.
Studebaker and Day?
Mr. Sims.
I believe it was Studebaker.
Mr. Ball.
Did they both have cameras?
Mr. Sims.
I don't remember if they both had cameras or not.
Mr. Ball.
You saw one of them at least take a picture?
Mr. Sims.
Yes; I know pictures was being taken.
Mr. Ball.
When the picture was taken, were the hulls in the same position as when you had first seen them?
Mr. Sims.
Yes, sir; they were.

[Dan O'meara]

…there is no photographic evidence of the original position of the shell casings.


There is testimony that conflicts with your assessment.



Mr. BELIN. Would you circle the three hulls on Exhibit 716? Do you know whether or not Exhibit 716 and Exhibit 715 were taken before these hulls were moved?
Mr. DAY. They were taken before anything was moved, to the best of my knowledge. I was advised when I got there nothing had been moved.
Mr. BELIN. Who so advised you?
Mr. DAY. I believe it was Detective Sims standing there, but I could be wrong about that.



Mr. Ball.
And what did you see?
Mr. Sims.
We saw the boxes stacked up about--I don't know--three or four stacks high and found three empty hulls laying there next to the wall of the Elm Street side of the building, the front of the building.
Mr. Ball.
Who was there when you saw them?
Mr. Sims.
Well, there was two or three officers was there when we got there, and I believe the officer that found them was still there. I have his name here someplace.
Mr. Ball.
Was he a deputy sheriff?
Mr. Sims.
Yes, he was a deputy sheriff.
Mr. Ball.
And who else--Luke Mooney?
Mr. Sims.
Yes--there was two or three officers there besides us--I don't know who all.
Mr. Ball.
And did Luke tell you whether or not he had moved the hulls or not?
Mr. Sims.
He said he had left them like he had found them.
Mr. Ball.
Did you take a picture of those hulls?
Mr. Sims.
Lieutenant Day did, I believe.
Mr. Ball.
Was he there right at the time?
Mr. Sims.
No, sir; he didn't get there until a few minutes later.
Mr. Ball.
Did you see the picture taken of the hulls?
Mr. Sims.
Yes, sir.
Mr. Ball.
You saw Day take the pictures, did you?
Mr. Sims.
Yes, sir.
Mr. Ball.
He was the cameraman, was he?
Mr. Sims.
Well, there was another one there too. Actually, it was Detective Studebaker that works for him.
Mr. Ball.
Studebaker and Day?
Mr. Sims.
I believe it was Studebaker.
Mr. Ball.
Did they both have cameras?
Mr. Sims.
I don't remember if they both had cameras or not.
Mr. Ball.
You saw one of them at least take a picture?
Mr. Sims.
Yes; I know pictures was being taken.
Mr. Ball.
When the picture was taken, were the hulls in the same position as when you had first seen them?
Mr. Sims.
Yes, sir; they were.

The following excerpt is from Connie Kritzberg's "Secrets from the Sixth Floor Window" and is the result of an interview she did with Tom Alyea. Years later Alyea read through the excerpt and inserted some corrections (which I have put in italics):

"Fritz then walked to the casings, picked them up and held them in his hand over the top of the boxes for me to get a close-up shot of the evidence. I filmed about eight seconds [changed to "between three and four seconds"] of a close-up shot of the shell casings in Captain Fritz's hand. I stopped filming, and thanked him. I do not recall if he placed them in his pocket or returned them back to the floor, because I was preoccupied with recording other views of the crime scene. I have been asked many times if I thought it was peculiar that the Captain of Homicide picked up evidence with his hands. Actually, that was the first thought that came to me when he did it, but I rationalized that he was the homicide expert and no prints could be taken from spent shell casings. Therefore, any photograph of shell casings taken after this, is staged and not correct."

Alyea is a newsman, there to report what he sees. Fritz moves into the SN, as far as Alyea is concerned he is the first officer to do so and, therefore, the first officer to pick up the shell casings. Alyea actually films the casings in Fritz's hand, this is a first-hand witness account from a news reporter. If it was only Alyea's account of this incident it could be written off as someone with a grudge against Fritz or the DPD, because he is so specific it is either the truth or completely made up. But we also have Mooney's testimony:

"Mr. Ball: Those were empty shells?
Mr. Mooney: Yes, sir.
Mr. Ball: They were turned over to Captain Fritz?
Mr. Mooney: Yes, sir; he was the first officer that picked them up, as far as I know, because I stood there and watched him go over and pick them up and look at them. As far as I could tell, I couldn't even tell what caliber they were, because I didn't get down that close to them. They were brass cartridges, brass shells."

Again, Fritz picks up the shell casings and is thought to be the first officer to do so. Deputy Sheriff Mooney is guarding the SN so nobody touches anything until Fritz arrives. He observes Fritz "go over and pick them up and look at them". It must also be noted that Mooney is not one of Fritz's men.

How can you account for these two, independently corroborating, first-hand eye-witness accounts that Fritz was the first officer to pick up the shell casings?

[Charles Collins]

The following excerpt is from Connie Kritzberg's "Secrets from the Sixth Floor Window" and is the result of an interview she did with Tom Alyea. Years later Alyea read through the excerpt and inserted some corrections (which I have put in italics):

"Fritz then walked to the casings, picked them up and held them in his hand over the top of the boxes for me to get a close-up shot of the evidence. I filmed about eight seconds [changed to "between three and four seconds"] of a close-up shot of the shell casings in Captain Fritz's hand. I stopped filming, and thanked him. I do not recall if he placed them in his pocket or returned them back to the floor, because I was preoccupied with recording other views of the crime scene. I have been asked many times if I thought it was peculiar that the Captain of Homicide picked up evidence with his hands. Actually, that was the first thought that came to me when he did it, but I rationalized that he was the homicide expert and no prints could be taken from spent shell casings. Therefore, any photograph of shell casings taken after this, is staged and not correct."

Alyea is a newsman, there to report what he sees. Fritz moves into the SN, as far as Alyea is concerned he is the first officer to do so and, therefore, the first officer to pick up the shell casings. Alyea actually films the casings in Fritz's hand, this is a first-hand witness account from a news reporter. If it was only Alyea's account of this incident it could be written off as someone with a grudge against Fritz or the DPD, because he is so specific it is either the truth or completely made up. But we also have Mooney's testimony:

"Mr. Ball: Those were empty shells?
Mr. Mooney: Yes, sir.
Mr. Ball: They were turned over to Captain Fritz?
Mr. Mooney: Yes, sir; he was the first officer that picked them up, as far as I know, because I stood there and watched him go over and pick them up and look at them. As far as I could tell, I couldn't even tell what caliber they were, because I didn't get down that close to them. They were brass cartridges, brass shells."

Again, Fritz picks up the shell casings and is thought to be the first officer to do so. Deputy Sheriff Mooney is guarding the SN so nobody touches anything until Fritz arrives. He observes Fritz "go over and pick them up and look at them". It must also be noted that Mooney is not one of Fritz's men.

How can you account for these two, independently corroborating, first-hand eye-witness accounts that Fritz was the first officer to pick up the shell casings?

How can you account for these two, independently corroborating, first-hand eye-witness accounts that Fritz was the first officer to pick up the shell casings?

How can you account for the two independently corroborating, first-hand eye-witness accounts that say the shells were photographed before anyone moved them.

Since you aren't providing any images of this close-up film that Alyea supposedly made, I assume that no one has ever seen it.

Sims testified that he heard the shouting when the shells were first found. Sims also testified that he was on the seventh floor when he heard the shouts and went immediately to the sniper's nest on the sixth floor. So, exactly when is Fritz supposed to have done this? I believe that Day testified that he had just finished dusting the shells for fingerprints and put them in an envelope and turned them over to another detective when the rifle was first found. And I find it very difficult to believe that someone with Fritz's experience would do something like that.

[Dan O'meara]

How can you account for these two, independently corroborating, first-hand eye-witness accounts that Fritz was the first officer to pick up the shell casings?

How can you account for the two independently corroborating, first-hand eye-witness accounts that say the shells were photographed before anyone moved them.

Since you aren't providing any images of this close-up film that Alyea supposedly made, I assume that no one has ever seen it.

Sims testified that he heard the shouting when the shells were first found. Sims also testified that he was on the seventh floor when he heard the shouts and went immediately to the sniper's nest on the sixth floor. So, exactly when is Fritz supposed to have done this? I believe that Day testified that he had just finished dusting the shells for fingerprints and put them in an envelope and turned them over to another detective when the rifle was first found. And I find it very difficult to believe that someone with Fritz's experience would do something like that.

Day's isn't a first-hand witness account. He"believes" Sims advised him but "could be wrong about that".
Sims is one of Fritz's main men and is covering for him. What Fritz has done is an unbelievably flagrant abuse of evidence, something beyond incompetence.
What reason do Alyea and, in particular, Mooney have to lie about this?
Why would you not believe their accounts?

[Charles Collins]

Day's isn't a first-hand witness account. He"believes" Sims advised him but "could be wrong about that".
Sims is one of Fritz's main men and is covering for him. What Fritz has done is an unbelievably flagrant abuse of evidence, something beyond incompetence.
What reason do Alyea and, in particular, Mooney have to lie about this?
Why would you not believe their accounts?

Mr. Mooney - …So, at that time, I didn't lay my hands on anything, because I wanted to save every evidence we could for fingerprints. So I leaned out the window, the same window from which the shots were fired, looked down, and I saw Sheriff Bill Decker and Captain Will Fritz standing right on the ground.
Well, so I hollered, or signaled I hollered, I more or less hollered. I whistled a time or two before I got anybody to see me. And yet they was all looking that way, too except the sheriff, they wasn't looking up.

And I told him to get the crime lab officers en route, that I had the location spotted.
So I stood guard to see that no one disturbed anything until Captain Will Fritz approached with his group of officers, city officers. At that time, of course, when I hollered, of course Officers Vickery and Webster, they came across and later on several other deputies--I believe Officers McCurley, A. D. McCurley, I believe he came over. Where he came from--they was all en route up there, I assume.


Again, exactly when was Fritz supposed to have done this? The above testimony (by your man Mooney), indicates that Fritz was outside the building on the ground when he hollered out that the shells had been found. Therefore, it appears unlikely to me that Fritz could have made it all the way up to the sixth floor and done this before Sims was able to get there from one only floor above. So it seems to me that if Fritz did this, Sims and the other officers who went to the area would have seen it. Have Vickery, Webster, McCurley, or anyone else besides Alyea said anything about Fritz doing that?
Without any actual film that would show what Alyea said that he filmed, it is easy to discount his story. And I find it easy to discount Mooney’s story without any of his fellow officers (who were there) backing it up.

[John Mytton]

How can you account for these two, independently corroborating, first-hand eye-witness accounts that Fritz was the first officer to pick up the shell casings?

How can you account for the two independently corroborating, first-hand eye-witness accounts that say the shells were photographed before anyone moved them.

Since you aren't providing any images of this close-up film that Alyea supposedly made, I assume that no one has ever seen it.

Sims testified that he heard the shouting when the shells were first found. Sims also testified that he was on the seventh floor when he heard the shouts and went immediately to the sniper's nest on the sixth floor. So, exactly when is Fritz supposed to have done this? I believe that Day testified that he had just finished dusting the shells for fingerprints and put them in an envelope and turned them over to another detective when the rifle was first found. And I find it very difficult to believe that someone with Fritz's experience would do something like that.

Since you aren't providing any images of this close-up film that Alyea supposedly made, I assume that no one has ever seen it.

Hi Charles, @2:59 in the following YT video which was broadcast later that day and for some reason is "age restricted"? we see footage that Alyea filmed on the 6th floor and even though half of the footage is barely watchable, WFAATV obviously being desperate to broadcast whatever they could showed Alyea's film to what appears through to it's very end and I see Oswald's murder weapon, people standing around, a stairway direction sign, a detective holding a bottle but I don't see any close-ups of Fritz holding shells?

EDIT I was thinking back to footage of Day removing the rifle from the floor and it's not in the footage above. So after a quick search, on DVP's YT video site I found some additional Alyea footage but still no close up of Carcano hulls. It's interesting that WFAATV didn't initially show the more news worthy footage of the rifle being recovered and instead gave us a stack of flickering images?

JohnM