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Author Topic: Who Exactly was Ron Pataky and did he Kill Dorothy Kilgallen  (Read 18027 times)

Offline Tom Scully

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Re: Who Exactly was Ron Pataky and did he Kill Dorothy Kilgallen
« Reply #16 on: May 04, 2020, 02:45:57 AM »
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"An assistant [unnamed] medical examiner reports...."
Why didn't the chief medical examiner step into this for a case involving a celebrated journalist?
"A moderate mixture of alcohol and barbiturates"? "The quantities" [involved] were not excessive..."
Not excessive? Then how come she died?
Like there was some booze and drugs left over?
If it really was suicide, why not step it up with everything there is?
Dorothy didn't kill herself and neither did Marilyn.

You do not recognize that your own biases hobble fact seeking, or you are limiting yourself to confirmation bias.
I won't be disappointed if the facts lead me to presenting evidence to readers that Ms. Kilgallen was murdered. For now, I can't prove that she was. I do know she was a successful self promoter and structured her syndicated column to keep her readership and attract new readers. The newspapers her column appeared in were for profit enterprises dependent on advertising revenue dependent on circulation numbers.

In this regard her motives were similar to Penn Jones's ..... promote, sensationalize. There is doubt, for example, Ms. Kilgallen was ever alone with Jack Ruby, in that actually, every word exchanged by the two was overheard.

Jerry, did you miss [unnamed] being named in the beginning of the second paragraph in the article image? In the April 1, 1964 NY Times article I excerpted above, Dr. Helpern stated that 510 autopsies had been performed in all five boroughs in 1963. Do you suspect less autopsies were being performed in NYC in 1965? Dr. Helpern had also said his goal was to shift all suspicious death associated autopsies to his First Ave. office.

The issue precipitating this policy change was that the gunshots in the first victim of this "animal" were missed during an autopsy conducted in Queens, and police had charged an innocent man in the murder of this "animal's" second victim.:
Quote
https://www.nytimes.com/1964/06/27/archives/trial-of-mitchell-ends-in-hung-jury.html
Trial of Mitchell Ends in Hung Jury
June 27, 1964
...It was learned that one juror had held out for the conviction of the 19‐year‐old Queens youth.

The case had been complicated by two confessions to the crime. Mitchell confessed, but later retracted his statement. Winston Moseley, a convicted murderer in another case, also confessed.....

Quote
https://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/05/nyregion/winston-moseley-81-killer-of-kitty-genovese-dies-in-prison.html
Winston Moseley, Who Killed Kitty Genovese, Dies in Prison at 81 - April 4, 2016
....He had been imprisoned for almost 52 years, since July 7, 1964, and was one of the state’s longest-serving inmates.

His life behind bars had been relatively eventful. Mr. Moseley was condemned to die in the electric chair, but in 1967, two years after New York State abolished most capital punishments, he won an appeal that reduced his sentence to an indeterminate life term. While at Attica Correctional Facility, in 1968, he escaped while on a hospital visit to Buffalo, raped a woman and held hostages at gunpoint before being recaptured. He joined in the 1971 Attica uprising; earned a college degree in 1977; and was rejected 18 times at parole hearings, the last time in 2015.

.....Mr. Moseley seemed an unlikely serial killer. Soft-spoken, intelligent, with no criminal record, he was 29, a married father of two who owned his home in South Ozone Park, Queens, and operated business machines in Mount Vernon, N.Y. Later, in confessions and testimony, he said he had driven around late at night seeking victims, and had killed three women, raped eight and committed 30 or 40 burglaries.....

Post an example of a 1960s autopsy performed by Chief M.E. Milton Helpern, himself. The Kilgallen autopsy was performed in Manhattan, according to the location description in the image below. I already provided explanation of the then recent centralization of suspected homicide autopsies. The result must have been less autopsies performed in Brooklyn, or can you document an alternative explanation? Dr. Baden was one of two who witnessed the autopsy.:

Quote
https://nypost.com/2016/12/04/dorothy-kilgallens-tell-all-on-a-mafia-don-might-have-got-her-killed/
Journalist’s tell-all on mobster tied to JFK might have gotten her killed
By Susan Edelman - December 4, 2016 | 6:46am

...Dr. Michael Baden, who later became the city’s chief medical examiner, told a prior author, Lee Israel, that the dosage in Kilgallen’s bloodstream was the stunning equivalent of “15 to 20” 100-milligram Seconal capsules.

“The amount of barbiturates was more than enough to kill her,” Baden confirmed to The Post. But, he said, cops ruled out suicide and found “nothing suspicious about the death. There was no suggestion that this was a ­homicide.”...



I deliberately reign in my preconceived notions and my disciplined approach has provoked, in one of several examples, eliciting the contrast between facts seeking vs "over investment" in a particular belief system.: Doug Horne reacting to my research details he could not refute...

« Last Edit: May 04, 2020, 03:35:38 AM by Tom Scully »

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Re: Who Exactly was Ron Pataky and did he Kill Dorothy Kilgallen
« Reply #16 on: May 04, 2020, 02:45:57 AM »


Offline Jerry Freeman

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Re: Who Exactly was Ron Pataky and did he Kill Dorothy Kilgallen
« Reply #17 on: May 04, 2020, 05:26:51 AM »
You do not recognize that your own biases hobble fact seeking, or you are limiting yourself to confirmation bias.
Actually, after nearly 60 years, how can much of anything be confirmed?
Quote
Jerry, did you miss [unnamed] being named in the beginning of the second paragraph in the article image?  Dr. Helpern had also said his goal was to shift all suspicious death associated autopsies to his First Ave. office.
I saw a name and forgot to erase unnamed [silly me] So this Dr Helpern just went ahead and sluffed off all the weird stuff huh?
Mr Scully likes to delve into news articles of this type...say perhaps exploring the mysterious disappearance of Warren Commission member and House Majority Leader Hale Boggs...a victim of the infamous Alaskan Triangle [so they say]

Offline Tom Scully

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Re: Who Exactly was Ron Pataky and did he Kill Dorothy Kilgallen
« Reply #18 on: May 04, 2020, 06:40:54 AM »
Actually, after nearly 60 years, how can much of anything be confirmed?  I saw a name and forgot to erase unnamed [silly me] So this Dr Helpern just went ahead and sluffed off all the weird stuff huh?

Mr Scully likes to delve into news articles of this type...say perhaps exploring the mysterious disappearance of Warren Commission member and House Majority Leader Hale Boggs...a victim of the infamous Alaskan Triangle [so they say]

Jerry, I regard you as a curious mix of CT and authoritarian. Please read the seven page .pdf at this link.:

Quote
https://web.williams.edu/Psychology/Faculty/Kassin/files/Kassin%20(2017)%20-%20Kitty%20Genovese.pdf
The Killing of Kitty Genovese: What Else
Does This Case Tell Us?
Saul M. Kassin  - John Jay College of Criminal Justice - 2017

.....At (Alvin) Mitchell’s first trial, Moseley
recounted his depraved spree of violence—including the
step-by-step account of the late-night walk through the
Kralik house and murder. However, this time he refused
to talk: “I didn’t do it,” he testified, “and I don’t intend to
go into any explanation why.”
Mitchell could not catch a break. At 1:35 a.m. on March
12, 1965, after more than 11 hours of deliberation, the
jury convicted Mitchell—not of murder, but of firstdegree manslaughter. He served 12 years and 8 months
before being released. According to Mitchell, he was eligible for parole before then but was denied because he
would not express remorse.
At the time of his death in 2016, Moseley was at the
Clinton Correctional Facility in upstate New York. Three
years ago, embedded in a letter to Moseley from a former
inmate and friend of his, I asked him about the Kralik
murder. In light of all that I had uncovered, I had two
questions: Did you kill her, and why at Mitchell’s second
trial did you refuse to repeat the confession you had
given in excruciating detail five times before? ....

This is what the seven page paper excerpted above hints to me, about Jerry. Author Mark Shaw who filed the motion in October, 2019 to exhume the remains of Dorothy Kilgallen and her husband Richard Kollmar, claimed in the motion it was not clear why a Brooklyn Asst. M.E. had been assigned to perform the Kilgallen autopsy, since she had been found dead in Manhattan. However, the autopsy report describes the place of the autopsy as the 520 First Ave., Manhattan office of the Chief Medical Examiner.

I think Jerry and author Mark Shaw wish for something that did not exist in the 1963 - 1965 period, not in Dallas, and in the details documented in the link in the quote box above, very likely not in NYC, either.

Another excerpt:
Quote
...... Determined to defend Mitchell’s prior
confession to Kralik, police were relieved when Moseley
appeared to misstate how Annie Mae Johnson was killed
1 month earlier. He said he shot her twice in the stomach
and four times in the back with a .22-caliber rifle before
sexually assaulting her and setting fire to her house. But
the Medical Examiner had concluded that she died of
puncture wounds from an ice pick or some other sharp
object.
Moseley was confronted with this apparent inconsistency, but he stood by his story. To discredit him, and
thereby preserve the Mitchell prosecution, authorities
flew to Ms. Johnson’s home state of South Carolina,
where she was buried, and exhumed her body. To everyone’s astonishment, however, the local coroner confirmed
Moseley’s account. Ms. Johnson was shot six times with a
376 Kassin
.22 caliber rifle—just as he had said. Four bullets, detected
in X-rays, were removed from her body.
Although Moseley’s culpability in the Johnson murder
was beyond dispute, the Queens District Attorney never
prosecuted him for it—even while citing this gruesome
crime in a letter opposing his parole 47 years later. In that
letter, the Queens District Attorney’s Office described
Moseley as a “predator” with “an overwhelming compulsion to commit acts of violence” (Testagrossa, 2011).
Also astonishing is that despite Moseley’s newly demonstrated credibility (with confessions confirmed for
both Genovese and Johnson, he was 2 for 2 in baseball
terms), the already shaky prosecution of Mitchell for the
Kralik murder continued unabated. This decision was a
difficult one as the local press was suspicious of the
case. (For a retrospective first-hand account from the
prosecutor who convinced a reluctant D.A. to proceed,
see Skoller, 2008.) .....

Twenty-five years later, the conduct of police and prosecutors had not improved much, if the abuse of the Central Park Five is any guide.

Yet Donald Trump, who Jerry Freeman supports, Trump who was the most prominent prejudiced influence against the five at the time, still insists they deserved to be taken advantage of by authorities and have their lives ruined, despite the evidence as we now know it.

Dorothy Kilgallen was born on second base, Donald Trump, on third! My research informs me that members of organized crime and privileged individuals such as Kilgallen or Trump were among the few who were not taken advantage of by police and prosecutors because these accused were among the very few with resources and know how to contact timely representation by competent attorneys.

I had a close, late friend who was a NY State BCI senior investigator, forensics, who during his career participated in 800 murder investigations. Experiences he shared with me, along with details I linked to in the quote box above, influence me to say it is understandable why JFK's SS detail drew their guns rather than submit JFK's remains to local Dallas authorities and that Oswald never made it out of DPD's basement, alive!

If anything, FBI and federal prosecutors of the 1960s were likely more professional and motivated to seek and arrest those, in fact, guilty, than municipal or state police in most states.

Dorothy Kilgallen was a troubled person in 1965, in an unhappy marriage and abusing alcohol and prescribed depressants. The odds against her death being competently investigated, at the scene, during the autopsy, or later were astronomical.

@ 1:40...

My research indicates the autopsy was likely the most improved component, after she was found dead in a bed she never slept in. NYC cops and prosecutors wanted to clear cases, not seek new ones they likely intentionally tried to avoid a need to thoroughly investigate.

The rest: of the April 1, 1964 article I posted the first column of in a recent post.....
https://www.nytimes.com/1964/04/01/archives/autopsy-report-on-slaying-erred-indicated-a-woman-shot-to-death-had.html



Dorothy's final episode:
« Last Edit: May 04, 2020, 06:52:49 AM by Tom Scully »

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Re: Who Exactly was Ron Pataky and did he Kill Dorothy Kilgallen
« Reply #18 on: May 04, 2020, 06:40:54 AM »


Offline Jerry Freeman

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Re: Who Exactly was Ron Pataky and did he Kill Dorothy Kilgallen
« Reply #19 on: May 07, 2020, 05:46:42 AM »
Jerry, I regard you as a curious mix of CT and authoritarian.
It is not theoretical to have doubts.
Find anywhere that I ever stated a theory.
Quote
Yet Donald Trump, who Jerry Freeman supports
Can you imagine Clinton up there with the virus outbreak going like it is? Can we say martial law?...Perhaps :-\ Besides, I am a Libertarian so there.
Quote
Author Mark Shaw who filed the motion in October, 2019...
I will post a video of a Shaw lecture. 
Quote
Dorothy Kilgallen was a troubled person in 1965...
OK so they say.................


Offline Walt Cakebread

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Re: Who Exactly was Ron Pataky and did he Kill Dorothy Kilgallen
« Reply #20 on: May 07, 2020, 11:21:47 PM »
Walt, I agree.  What do you think she was on to in New Oreans?  Linking Ruby, Oswald and Marcello?  Whoever the source was she would have met at the second visit had she not been killed was likely killed too around the same time and then they went for Ruby.

It may be unbelievable for you.... But I believe that Dorthy K was going to meet Marcello.....  Who may have thought that he could buy her silence.

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Re: Who Exactly was Ron Pataky and did he Kill Dorothy Kilgallen
« Reply #20 on: May 07, 2020, 11:21:47 PM »


Offline Walt Cakebread

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Re: Who Exactly was Ron Pataky and did he Kill Dorothy Kilgallen
« Reply #21 on: May 07, 2020, 11:39:17 PM »
It is not theoretical to have doubts.
Find anywhere that I ever stated a theory.Can you imagine Clinton up there with the virus outbreak going like it is? Can we say martial law?...Perhaps :-\ Besides, I am a Libertarian so there. I will post a video of a Shaw lecture.  OK so they say.................


Wow!!....The presentatation by Mark Shaw is facinating!!.....  Thank you for posting it.    Mark And I share exactly the same view of the " Sixth Floor"....

The Sixth Floor is a revolting ( nauseating )  public  brainwashing facility .....    When I visited the Sixth Floor I felt nausea when I viewed ignorant unsuspecting suckers trooping through the "museum " and nodding their heads in agreement with the pure BS that was being spewed from the monitors. 
« Last Edit: May 08, 2020, 12:18:59 AM by Walt Cakebread »

Offline Paul May

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Re: Who Exactly was Ron Pataky and did he Kill Dorothy Kilgallen
« Reply #22 on: May 08, 2020, 12:55:39 AM »
Dorothy Kilgallen interviewed Jack Ruby and was investigating the JFK assassination when she died.  This was following a trip to New Orleans and a second trip planned very shortly.  The second trip was to fill in some gaps in her ever growing JFK assassination research file an provide a full story to be published telling the whole story of the plot and the people behind it.  This included a definite link between Oswald, Ruby and Carlos Marcello.

Dorothy died of an overdose of sleeping tablets and alcohol.  However, there were 3 types of drug found in her body and she only ever had a prescription for one of them.  The others were lethal in combination and one of those is used in some states for the death penalty.  A small amount of alcohol with this combination would have been lethal.

Earlier that night she was seen in the Regency Hotel NYC with a younger man believed to have been Ron Pataky.  She was found dead in a be she didn't normally sleep in at her home.

Who was Ron Pataky?  Some say he had mob ties and also tie to government agencies?

DK NEVER interviewed JR. Period.

Offline Paul May

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Re: Who Exactly was Ron Pataky and did he Kill Dorothy Kilgallen
« Reply #23 on: May 08, 2020, 12:57:05 AM »
I believe Pataky did murder Kilgallen..... as directed by J.Edgar.

Belief is something one has in the absence of actual evidence.

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Re: Who Exactly was Ron Pataky and did he Kill Dorothy Kilgallen
« Reply #23 on: May 08, 2020, 12:57:05 AM »