Truly's False Roll

[John Mytton]

Why do your "plausible scenarios" always pre-assume Oswald's guilt?

Edward Shields said that Givens was with him at Record and Main at noon.  And why did it take Givens 5 months and 5 interviews to remember going back for his cigarettes out of a "jacket" on the 6th floor when he said he hung up his coat on the first floor when he got to work?  And that was after Revill stated to Gemberling that Givens had been previously handled by the Special Services Bureau on a marijuana charge and he believed that Givens would change his story for money.

But by all means, let's go with that statement because it's the only thing putting Oswald on the 6th floor at any time that day.

"he believed" LOL!

JohnM

[Dan O'meara]

Mr. Truly: When I noticed this boy was missing, I told Chief Lumpkin that "We have a man here that's missing." I said, "It my not mean anything, but he isn't here." I first called down to the other warehouse and had Mr. Akin pull the application of the boy so I could get--quickly get his address in Irving and his general description, so I could be more accurate than I would be.
Mr. Ball: Was he the only man missing?
Mr. Truly: The only one I noticed at that time. Now, I think there was one or two more, possibly Charles Givens, but I had seen him out in front walking up the street just before the firing of the gun.
Mr. Ball: But walking which way?
Mr. Truly: The last time I saw him, he was walking across Houston Street, east on Elm.
Mr. Ball: Did you make a check of your employees afterwards?
Mr. Truly: No, no; not complete. No, I just saw the group of the employees over there on the floor and I noticed this boy wasn't with them. With no thought in my mind except that I had seen him a short time before in the building, I noticed he wasn't there.
Mr. Ball: What do you mean "a short time before"?
Mr. Truly: I would say 10 or 12 minutes.
Mr. Ball: You mean that's when you saw him in the lunchroom?
Mr. Truly: In the lunchroom.
Mr. Ball: And you noticed he wasn't over there?
Mr. Truly: Well, I asked Bill Shelley if he had seen him around and he said "No."
Mr. Ball: Now, you told Chief Lumpkin that there was a man missing?
Mr. Truly: Yes; and he said, "Let's go tell Captain Fritz." Well, I didn't know where Captain Fritz was.

Was there a roll call?
The definitive answer is "No".
Truly himself states he didn't take a check of his employees. He states he saw a group of men stood around and noticed Oswald wasn't with them.
He makes the point that, other than Oswald, there were "one or two more" others missing. One was Givens, the other would have been Dougherty who, at this time, was wandering around the TSBD looking for Truly!
He states that Oswald's absence stood out because he'd seen him in the building shortly before, so why he would assume Oswald had left the building is hard to say.
There was no attempt at any search to locate Oswald. All Truly does is ask Shelley if he'd seen him. Shelley says no but, interestingly, Oswald is reported to have met up with Shelley just before he left the TSBD and it was actually as a result of a conversation with Shelley that Oswald decided to leave.
Maybe that's how Truly knew Oswald had left the building - because Shelley had told him that.

Whatever the case, Truly had no real reason to assume Oswald had left the building, there had been no roll call and no search for him.

[Richard Smith]

Mr. Truly: When I noticed this boy was missing, I told Chief Lumpkin that "We have a man here that's missing." I said, "It my not mean anything, but he isn't here." I first called down to the other warehouse and had Mr. Akin pull the application of the boy so I could get--quickly get his address in Irving and his general description, so I could be more accurate than I would be.
Mr. Ball: Was he the only man missing?
Mr. Truly: The only one I noticed at that time. Now, I think there was one or two more, possibly Charles Givens, but I had seen him out in front walking up the street just before the firing of the gun.
Mr. Ball: But walking which way?
Mr. Truly: The last time I saw him, he was walking across Houston Street, east on Elm.
Mr. Ball: Did you make a check of your employees afterwards?
Mr. Truly: No, no; not complete. No, I just saw the group of the employees over there on the floor and I noticed this boy wasn't with them. With no thought in my mind except that I had seen him a short time before in the building, I noticed he wasn't there.
Mr. Ball: What do you mean "a short time before"?
Mr. Truly: I would say 10 or 12 minutes.
Mr. Ball: You mean that's when you saw him in the lunchroom?
Mr. Truly: In the lunchroom.
Mr. Ball: And you noticed he wasn't over there?
Mr. Truly: Well, I asked Bill Shelley if he had seen him around and he said "No."
Mr. Ball: Now, you told Chief Lumpkin that there was a man missing?
Mr. Truly: Yes; and he said, "Let's go tell Captain Fritz." Well, I didn't know where Captain Fritz was.

Was there a roll call?
The definitive answer is "No".
Truly himself states he didn't take a check of his employees. He states he saw a group of men stood around and noticed Oswald wasn't with them.
He makes the point that, other than Oswald, there were "one or two more" others missing. One was Givens, the other would have been Dougherty who, at this time, was wondering around the TSBD looking for Truly!
He states that Oswald's absence stood out because he'd seen him in the building shortly before, so why he would assume Oswald had left the building is hard to say.
There was no attempt at any search to locate Oswald. All Truly does is ask Shelley if he'd seen him. Shelley says no but, interestingly, Oswald is reported to have met up with Shelley just before he left the TSBD and it was actually as a result of a conversation with Shelley that Oswald decided to leave.
Maybe that's how Truly knew Oswald had left the building - because Shelley had told him that.

Whatever the case, Truly had no real reason to assume Oswald had left the building, there had been no roll call and no search for him.

"Roll call" has a subjective meaning to different people.  It could mean a school-like reading of names in which everyone says "here" but it could be interpreted more informally as in checking around for who was there.  The police were also taking names.  Truly had a great reason to "assume" Oswald had left the building.  He wasn't there.   Truly had every reason to specifically recall Oswald because he knew that, unlike most others, Oswald was in the TSBD during the assassination.  He had seen a policer officer actually pull his gun on Oswald.  Not something easily forgotten.  And the same guy is not around after the fact.  Truly had reasonable grounds - "roll call" or no roll call - to notice and report Oswald missing.  And what difference does it really make if there is no suggestion that Truly was acting as part of some conspiracy to frame Oswald?  Whether there was a roll call or some other explanation for noticing Oswald missing in that context it doesn't really matter except as an historical curiosity. 

[Dan O'meara]

"Roll call" has a subjective meaning to different people.  It could mean a school-like reading of names in which everyone says "here" but it could be interpreted more informally as in checking around for who was there.  The police were also taking names.  Truly had a great reason to "assume" Oswald had left the building.  He wasn't there.   Truly had every reason to specifically recall Oswald because he knew that, unlike most others, Oswald was in the TSBD during the assassination.  He had seen a policer officer actually pull his gun on Oswald.  Not something easily forgotten.  And the same guy is not around after the fact.  Truly had reasonable grounds - "roll call" or no roll call - to notice and report Oswald missing.  And what difference does it really make if there is no suggestion that Truly was acting as part of some conspiracy to frame Oswald?  Whether there was a roll call or some other explanation for noticing Oswald missing in that context it doesn't really matter except as an historical curiosity.

"Truly had a great reason to "assume" Oswald had left the building.  He wasn't there."

If that reasoning were any more circular it would have infinite angles.
The point I'm making is that there were others missing at the time in question and no attempt was made to locate Oswald in the building.
How could Truly know Oswald had left the building?
How could he be so sure of it as to feel it should be reported, before any attempt is made to locate Oswald elsewhere.
Dougherty wasn't there, he was wandering around the building looking for Truly.
The importance, whether intended or not, is that Truly reporting Oswald immediately focused the attention of the police on locating Oswald. If the Tippit murder hadn't have happened, this would have been the sole reason to focus on Oswald.

It must also be remembered that, if what Biffle overheard is true, Truly is less than truthful when he said Oswald had failed to report for a roll call at 1:15pm, because, as we know from Truly's own words, there was no such roll call.
Truly also 'extends the truth' when he says they can't find Oswald anywhere, not surprising considering nobody looked for him.

Also of interest is what's known as the Revill List - a list of people signed out of the TSBD. At the top of the list is Oswald's name and, of great interest, his Elsbeth Street address. At the TSBD they only had his Irving address, so where did the Elsbeth address come from?

As I believe Oswald was a patsy these things become more than just historical curiosities.

[Richard Smith]

"Truly had a great reason to "assume" Oswald had left the building.  He wasn't there."

If that reasoning were any more circular it would have infinite angles.
The point I'm making is that there were others missing at the time in question and no attempt was made to locate Oswald in the building.
How could Truly know Oswald had left the building?
How could he be so sure of that as to feel it should be reported, before any attempt is made to locate Oswald elsewhere.
Dougherty wasn't there, he was wandering around the building looking for Truly.
The importance, whether intended or not, is that Truly reporting Oswald immediately focused the attention of the police on locating Oswald. If the Tippit murder hadn't have happened, this would have been the sole reason to focus on Oswald.

It must also be remembered that, if what Biffle overheard is true, Truly is less than truthful when he said Oswald had failed to report for a roll call at 1:15pm, because, as we know from Truly's own words, there was no such roll call.
Truly also 'extends the truth' when he says they can't find Oswald anywhere, not surprising considering nobody looked for him.

Also of interest is what's known as the Revill List - a list of people signed out of the TSBD. At the top of the list is Oswald's name and, of great interest, his Elsbeth Street address. At the TSBD they only had his Irving address, so where did the Elsbeth address come from?

As I believe Oswald was a patsy these things become more than just historical curiosities.

So you are suggesting Truly was involved in some unspecified manner in a plot to frame Oswald for the assassination of the President?  His role was to allow Oswald to escape but later note that he was missing even though Oswald would quickly have become a person of interest given that:  1) he was missing without explanation; and 2) his suspect political background was known to the FBI.  Given the timing of these events, Truly would have to not only be involved in the post-assassination frame up of Oswald, but be recruited prior to the assassination.   There is zero evidence that Truly was involved in any such plot.  None.  Again, Truly entered the TSBD with a police officer right after the assassination.  He saw the police officer with a gun pointed at Oswald inside the building.  A memorable event.  Oswald comes to his mind for that reason when he is noticed missing.  Getting hung up on whether there was a "roll call" or not when that term is not defined in this context is an example of focusing on minutia instead of what is important.  Truly knew Oswald was in the building during the assassination (unlike most others) and was gone after the assassination (unlike most others).  That is why it came to Truly's mind as he himself explained. 

[Bill Chapman]

"Truly had a great reason to "assume" Oswald had left the building.  He wasn't there."

If that reasoning were any more circular it would have infinite angles.
The point I'm making is that there were others missing at the time in question and no attempt was made to locate Oswald in the building.
How could Truly know Oswald had left the building?
How could he be so sure of that as to feel it should be reported, before any attempt is made to locate Oswald elsewhere.
Dougherty wasn't there, he was wandering around the building looking for Truly.
The importance, whether intended or not, is that Truly reporting Oswald immediately focused the attention of the police on locating Oswald. If the Tippit murder hadn't have happened, this would have been the sole reason to focus on Oswald.

It must also be remembered that, if what Biffle overheard is true, Truly is less than truthful when he said Oswald had failed to report for a roll call at 1:15pm, because, as we know from Truly's own words, there was no such roll call.
Truly also 'extends the truth' when he says they can't find Oswald anywhere, not surprising considering nobody looked for him.

Also of interest is what's known as the Revill List - a list of people signed out of the TSBD. At the top of the list is Oswald's name and, of great interest, his Elsbeth Street address. At the TSBD they only had his Irving address, so where did the Elsbeth address come from?

As I believe Oswald was a patsy these things become more than just historical curiosities.

How the fck is a typewritten list any proof of who the hell signed out? Let's see signatures.
It seems this list is of the ppl who had gone missing at that point

Can you point out where the following Revill list indicates that these people 'signed out'? Did Oswald himself say he had signed out?

[Dan O'meara]

How the fck is a typewritten list any proof of who the hell signed out? Let's see signatures.
It seems this list is of the ppl who had gone missing at that point

Can you point out where the following Revill list indicates that these people 'signed out'? Did Oswald himself say he had signed out?

Alright Bill, keep your wig on!
"Signed out" was completely the wrong term to use.
I retract it, I withdraw it, it is an ex-statement, it has ceased to be.

It was more the Elsbeth address I was interested in. What's with that?

[Bill Chapman]

Alright Bill, keep your wig on!
"Signed out" was completely the wrong term to use.
I retract it, I withdraw it, it is an ex-statement, it has ceased to be.

It was more the Elsbeth address I was interested in. What's with that?

Stop squirming. You retract it only because you got got caught.