Colors of Blue and Gold

[Richard Smith]

So if the voters elect Trump in the 2024 election that is your definition of the end of democracy?  Good grief.  What twisted logic.

No. It's an undeniable truth you're just not willing to accept. How can a guy who tried to overthrow a fair election not be considered a threat to democracy?

I explained it.  That is a false premise.  Trump believed that he won the election.  He was not trying to "steal" it.  That is leftist propaganda.  You can argue that Trump was unreasonable in reaching his conclusion that he won the election but not that was trying to steal it.  And, for the reasons already explained, there were a number of reasons to be concerned about how the 2020 election was conducted.  The rules were changed in the months leading up to the election.  We know that media and social media outlets suppressed information that was harmful to Biden.  There was censorship and politicalization of the COVID pandemic.  The net result was an outlier election with more votes for an elderly man who almost never left his house than for any other candidate in American history.  If that had happened in some third world country, every sane person would have laughed at the result.

As President, Trump was the most powerful man in the world.  He was commander and chief of the military.  But the leftist media would have us believe that his plan to overthrow the election was to have some random hillbillies roam about the Capitol like tourists.  It is laughable.  No doubt some crimes were committed like vandalism and trespass but that was no effort to overthrow the election.  The leftists used the event - as they did the pandemic - to promote a fake narrative.

[Martin Weidmann]

I explained it.  That is a false premise.  Trump believed that he won the election.  He was not trying to "steal" it.  That is leftist propaganda.  You can argue that Trump was unreasonable in reaching his conclusion that he won the election but not that was trying to steal it.  And, for the reasons already explained, there were a number of reasons to be concerned about how the 2020 election was conducted.  The rules were changed in the months leading up to the election.  We know that media and social media outlets suppressed information that was harmful to Biden.  There was censorship and politicalization of the COVID pandemic.  The net result was an outlier election with more votes for an elderly man who almost never left his house than for any other candidate in American history.  If that had happened in some third world country, every sane person would have laughed at the result.

As President, Trump was the most powerful man in the world.  He was commander and chief of the military.  But the leftist media would have us believe that his plan to overthrow the election was to have some random hillbillies roam about the Capitol like tourists.  It is laughable.  No doubt some crimes were committed like vandalism and trespass but that was no effort to overthrow the election.  The leftists used the event - as they did the pandemic - to promote a fake narrative.

Trump believed that he won the election.

Even if he did believe that, it still doesn't alter the fact that he lost and it most certainly doesn't give him the right to try to overthrow the results of the election.

He was not trying to "steal" it.  That is leftist propaganda.

BS. That's exactly what he was trying to do...... When you start calling officials and ask to "find" 11.000 + votes (that did not exist) and you are trying to use fake electors, you are trying to steal the election. To deny this is just foolish.

And, for the reasons already explained, there were a number of reasons to be concerned about how the 2020 election was conducted. 

If he didn't agree with the new rules, why did he not object before the election? That would have been the right way to do it. I seriously doubt he would have complained about the rules if he had won the election.

As President, Trump was the most powerful man in the world.  He was commander and chief of the military.  But the leftist media would have us believe that his plan to overthrow the election was to have some random hillbillies roam about the Capitol like tourists.  It is laughable.

Sure, that would be laughable, but they were not hillbillie tourist. Maybe some went there for a peaceful demonstration but guys like the Proud boys (Stand down and stand by) didn't go there for peaceful protest. They prepared weeks in advance and they are now paying the price in court, as did a few hundered other people so far. What is truly laughable is the pathetic right wing attempt to pretend it was nothing more than some tourists who were sightseeing at the Capitol.

And, yes, at that time Trump was the most powerful man in the world as well commander and chief of the military but that doesn't mean he could overthrow the rightfully elected government by himself. He needed the help of the military and he wasn't getting it. To protect democracy it takes brave men to stand up to a wannabe dictator! That's why Trump figured he needed his own private militia.

No doubt some crimes were committed like vandalism and trespass but that was no effort to overthrow the election.

For crying out loud, he wanted Mike Pence to refuse to certify Biden as the winner of the election. How is that not an attempt to overthrow the election? What planet are you from?

[Rick Plant]

The United States will always defend our allies and our national security. Only traitors would be against defending our national interests and our democracy.

Pentagon confirms Ukraine downed Russian missile with Patriot system
https://thehill.com/policy/defense/3996387-pentagon-confirms-ukraine-downed-russian-missile-with-patriot-system/or

[Joe Elliott]

I explained it.  That is a false premise.  Trump believed that he won the election.  He was not trying to "steal" it.  That is leftist propaganda.  You can argue that Trump was unreasonable in reaching his conclusion that he won the election but not that was trying to steal it.  And, for the reasons already explained, there were a number of reasons to be concerned about how the 2020 election was conducted.  The rules were changed in the months leading up to the election.  We know that media and social media outlets suppressed information that was harmful to Biden.  There was censorship and politicalization of the COVID pandemic.  The net result was an outlier election with more votes for an elderly man who almost never left his house than for any other candidate in American history.  If that had happened in some third world country, every sane person would have laughed at the result.

So, you are a strong defender of democracy. And believe that no man has the right to overturn a fair election. Anyone who does so must be prosecuted to the utmost of the law. Unless they profess that they actually won. And, I should remind you, that the law does not make any special exceptions, for people who insist that they were the real winner.

This makes about as much sense as saying people cannot commit murder. Unless they insist that they believed they were acting in self defense. And so they must not be prosecuted. Even though there is no evidence that backs up their belief that caused them to ambushed someone, and take their wallet, because they thought they were going to be killed.

I submit that this stand does nothing to protect democracy. Because anyone who wants to overturn a fair election will simply insist that they are the real winner. And thereby make themselves immune to prosecution. As Trump is trying to do. It makes a mockery of law.

As President, Trump was the most powerful man in the world.  He was commander and chief of the military.  But the leftist media would have us believe that his plan to overthrow the election was to have some random hillbillies roam about the Capitol like tourists.  It is laughable.  No doubt some crimes were committed like vandalism and trespass but that was no effort to overthrow the election.  The leftists used the event - as they did the pandemic - to promote a fake narrative.

Why didn't Trump simply use the military? Because, under General Milley, they would disobey President Trump's orders. The problem is, members of the military do not take an oath to obey whatever order the president issues to them. They take an oath to protect and defend the constitution, from all enemies, foreign and domestic. And that can include the President of the United States, if he turns traitor, violates the oath he gave to the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court, face to face, to protect and defend the constitution.

So Trump used the groups that would obey him. The radical MAGA crowd and Proud Boys.

[Joe Elliott]

Which could be negotiated today if there was anyone with a functioning brain in the Biden administration.  For "as long as it takes" is not a policy when you don't define "it" and if "it" means the Russians are defeated on the battlefield and agree to pull out all their forces, that will mean war for years.

What Richard Smith wants is a Neville Chamberlain for American. He believes that is what America needs. And Donald Trump can be that man.

In 1938, Britain found the man they were looking for. Someone who would force Hitler to promise to not attack any of his neighbors, after occupying the Sudetenland. And Chamberlain accomplished that for them. And he believes that Trump can accomplish that for us today. I think Richard is right. Trump can negotiate peace with Russia. And be just as effected as Neville Chamberlain.

For a relatively cheap price, compared to our billions of spending over 70 years to defend against Russia, we are giving Ukraine just enough support, to trash the Russian army. Which makes them less able to invade other counties. And this benefits Ukraine as well, since it prevents them from being ruled by Putin. A fate I would not wish on my worst enemies, except for, perhaps, the MAGA crowd, who, if they get there way, will Make Russia Great Again.

[Jon Banks]

Russia isn’t a threat to America and they’re not Nazi Germany.

There’s no rational reason for Americans to be paying more to help Ukraine than the EU.

[Richard Smith]

Trump believed that he won the election.

Even if he did believe that, it still doesn't alter the fact that he lost and it most certainly doesn't give him the right to try to overthrow the results of the election.

He was not trying to "steal" it.  That is leftist propaganda.

BS. That's exactly what he was trying to do...... When you start calling officials and ask to "find" 11.000 + votes (that did not exist) and you are trying to use fake electors, you are trying to steal the election. To deny this is just foolish.

And, for the reasons already explained, there were a number of reasons to be concerned about how the 2020 election was conducted. 

If he didn't agree with the new rules, why did he not object before the election? That would have been the right way to do it. I seriously doubt he would have complained about the rules if he had won the election.

As President, Trump was the most powerful man in the world.  He was commander and chief of the military.  But the leftist media would have us believe that his plan to overthrow the election was to have some random hillbillies roam about the Capitol like tourists.  It is laughable.

Sure, that would be laughable, but they were not hillbillie tourist. Maybe some went there for a peaceful demonstration but guys like the Proud boys (Stand down and stand by) didn't go there for peaceful protest. They prepared weeks in advance and they are now paying the price in court, as did a few hundered other people so far. What is truly laughable is the pathetic right wing attempt to pretend it was nothing more than some tourists who were sightseeing at the Capitol.

And, yes, at that time Trump was the most powerful man in the world as well commander and chief of the military but that doesn't mean he could overthrow the rightfully elected government by himself. He needed the help of the military and he wasn't getting it. To protect democracy it takes brave men to stand up to a wannabe dictator! That's why Trump figured he needed his own private militia.

No doubt some crimes were committed like vandalism and trespass but that was no effort to overthrow the election.

For crying out loud, he wanted Mike Pence to refuse to certify Biden as the winner of the election. How is that not an attempt to overthrow the election? What planet are you from?

Hillary and leftists spent years after 2016 claiming the election was stolen.  And Trump did protest the election rule changes in the months prior to the 2020 election.  He had no control over how states conducted their elections, however.  What would ever happen if an election was rigged?  Would you suggest that the loser not protest?  That it would be against Democracy to point out that an election had been rigged? Trump believed he was cheated out of the election.  There is validity to his claims.  What he didn't believe or ever say is that he believed he lost the election and was attempting to overturn the results.   

[Richard Smith]

So, you are a strong defender of democracy. And believe that no man has the right to overturn a fair election. Anyone who does so must be prosecuted to the utmost of the law. Unless they profess that they actually won. And, I should remind you, that the law does not make any special exceptions, for people who insist that they were the real winner.

This makes about as much sense as saying people cannot commit murder. Unless they insist that they believed they were acting in self defense. And so they must not be prosecuted. Even though there is no evidence that backs up their belief that caused them to ambushed someone, and take their wallet, because they thought they were going to be killed.

There is no doubt that if Trump and the republicans had changed the election laws in the months leading up to the 2020 election in such a way as to decide the outcome, that Dems would have rioted and likely engaged in a civil war.  There is no way that Dems could have squared such changes with democracy.  In fact, Dems would have claimed that Trump was acting like a dictator and protests about the election would have been deemed not only justified but noble in the cause of democracy.  This was all done legally by the Dems with the assistance of the many establishment republicans.  The election, therefore, was not stolen as Trump insists.  It was conducted lawfully but unfairly and Trump lost.  That combined with what he know now was a concerted effort of the media working in concert with the FBI and CIA to cover up information that was harmful to Biden, however, is cause for grave concern in a democracy.  But the ends always justify the means for modern day leftist.  Anything goes if it promotes keeping Trump from being elected.