Colors of Blue and Gold

[Jon Banks]

After a nine month battle, the Russians have captured the city of Bakhmut.

There is no final accounting of losses on either side. Prigozhin praised the Ukrainians defending the city. Bakhmut’s fall came after the most heavily defended part of the city, called the Citadel, fell to Wagner forces after fierce fighting and heavy bombardment by Russian artillery.

Almost all standing structures in Bakhmut have been damaged severely or destroyed completely. The Ukrainian army actually blew up a number of buildings as they retreated so Wagner forces could not use them for firing platforms. (See brief video here on Prigozhin’s announcement.)

It isn’t clear what next steps will be carried out by the Russian army. On the previous night, Russia carried out another large-scale bombing of Ukrainian targets and also claimed they shot down a number of HIMARS rockets and Storm Shadow cruise missiles.

Meanwhile, the Russians destroyed key bridges to Chasiv Yar, the town supplying Ukrainian forces in Bakhmut and on the Bakhmut flanks. It is possible Russian forces may go after Chasiv Yar as a staging point for a run to the Dnieper River. A lot depends on how the expected Ukrainian offensive develops.

While Ukrainian sources are claiming Bakhmut was unimportant, the long battle over nine months was ordered by Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky, reportedly against the advice of his military commanders.

There are now unconfirmed rumors circulating on Telegram Messenger, where most of the Russian “mil” bloggers operate, that Ukraine’s top general, Valerii Zaluzhny, may be dead.  He has not been seen or heard from for some days.

Also strange is that Zelensky himself would run off to the G-7 meeting in Hiroshima, Japan just as one of Ukraine’s most important battles concluded. There is a sense, no more than that, that there is substantial political turmoil in Kiev that could change the direction of the country and the war.

https://asiatimes.com/2023/05/bakhmut-has-finally-fallen-to-the-russians/

[Martin Weidmann]

Post #289 in this thread. 

"Nobody is saying that Russia will overrun Europe, because they won't. They don't have the guts or the means to take on NATO."

This is a blatant falsehood.  You weren't speaking just for yourself.  You said that "nobody" is saying Russia will overrun "Europe."  That is a demonstrable lie.  One of the primary arguments for supporting Ukraine in this war by leftists and right-wing war mongers is not to repeat the mistake of WWII by appeasing Hitler.   A poster on this board has repeatedly made that claim.  You know that are now running away again instead of apologizing for your dishonesty or ignorance of the facts.

And where did I mention Hitler in post #289?

This is a blatant falsehood.  You weren't speaking just for yourself.

Pathetic! Who else would I be speaking for?

You said that "nobody" is saying Russia will overrun "Europe."  That is a demonstrable lie.

No. It's a figure of speech which expresses an opinion. That isn't lying.

It would only have been a lie if I had checked with everyone and knew for sure that some did in fact say that. Are you really foolish enough to actually think I had checked with every one?

Your desperation to turn an expressed opinion into a lie says everything we need (and want) to know about you.

[Rick Plant]

The G7 leaders are united with Ukraine.

Ukraine’s Zelenskyy at center of last day of high-level diplomacy as G7 looks to punish Russia
https://thehill.com/policy/international/ap-ukraines-zelenskyy-at-center-of-last-day-of-high-level-diplomacy-as-g7-looks-to-punish-russia/

Zelensky Asks G7 Leaders for More Ukraine Aid
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/05/20/us/politics/zelensky-g7-japan.html

Biden announces new $375M military aid package for Ukraine during Zelensky meeting
https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/4014072-biden-announces-new-375m-military-aid-package-for-ukraine-during-zelensky-meeting/

Zelenskyy hints new Canadian aid package for Ukraine is coming soon
https://globalnews.ca/news/9714201/volodymyr-zelenskyy-canada-ukraine-aid/

Zelensky arrives at G7 summit as world leaders call out China - BBC News

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky made a scene-stealing arrival at the G7 summit in Japan on Saturday.
 
It came as world leaders issued a veiled warning to China against the use of what it called “economic coercion”.
 
His visit prompted G7 leaders to issue their statement early, in which they also condemned Russia.

Watch:

[Richard Smith]

And where did I mention Hitler in post #289?

This is a blatant falsehood.  You weren't speaking just for yourself.

Pathetic! Who else would I be speaking for?

You said that "nobody" is saying Russia will overrun "Europe."  That is a demonstrable lie.

No. It's a figure of speech which expresses an opinion. That isn't lying.

It would only have been a lie if I had checked with everyone and knew for sure that some did in fact say that. Are you really foolish enough to actually think I had checked with every one?

Your desperation to turn an expressed opinion into a lie says everything we need (and want) to know about you.

Rabbit hole nonsense.  Leftists and right wing war mongers have used Hitler and WWII as the primary example for why Putin needs to be confronted in Ukraine (i.e. the West should have confronted Hitler before WWII. Failure to do so resulted in Hitler overrunning "Europe:).  That is a demonstrable fact.  I provided an example from this very thread but it is also a widely expressed justification for this endless war.  In response you said the following:

"Nobody is saying that Russia will overrun Europe, because they won't. They don't have the guts or the means to take on NATO."

This statement is a blatant falsehood.  In your defense you bizarrely argued that YOU had never made the claim that Russia would overrun "Europe."  But your statement was that NOBODY had made this claim.   Now that your lie has been exposed you are trying to move the goal posts yet again.

[Rick Plant]

Rabbit hole nonsense.  Leftists and right wing war mongers have used Hitler and WWII as the primary example for why Putin needs to be confronted in Ukraine (i.e. the West should have confronted Hitler before WWII. Failure to do so resulted in Hitler overrunning "Europe:).  That is a demonstrable fact.  I provide an example from this very thread but is a widely expressed justification for this endless war.  In response you said the following:

"Nobody is saying that Russia will overrun Europe, because they won't. They don't have the guts or the means to take on NATO."

This statement is a blatant falsehood.  In your defense you bizarrely argued that YOU had never made the claim that Russia would overrun "Europe."  But your statement was that NOBODY had made this claim.   Now that your lie has been exposed you are trying to move the goal posts yet again.

"Endless war".

Putin can end his war anytime he wants but refuses.

World leaders are not going to allow Puitin to take Ukraine.     

[Richard Smith]

"Endless war".

Putin can end his war anytime he wants but refuses.

World leaders are not going to allow Puitin to take Ukraine.   

Finally some wisdom!!!!  Putin can end this war.  But who can't?  Ukraine or Old Joe.  So it is endless from the American perspective just as Vietnam and Afghanistan were endless and pointless.  We can't force an end to it.  Our adversaries control that decision.  And what happens if the creeping pattern of escalation continues?  Just like in Vietnam.  Old Joe wasn't going to send in the missile systems.  Then did.  Old Joe wasn't going to send tanks.  Then he did.  Old Joe wasn't going to send F16s.  Then he did.  What happens when Zelensky demands NATO ground forces?  We know how that goes from the long track record.  The advisors will go in first.  They are already there according to many media outlets.  Then the NATO troops will slowly be sent in for support roles, then combat roles.  The US will, as always, bear the brunt of that effott while "Europe" laughs at us.

[Rick Plant]

It's refreshing to have a leader as President again instead of a Russian stooge like Donnie selling out America and our allies to Putin.

Biden tells G7 leaders he supports joint training for Ukrainians on F-16s
https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/biden-tells-7-leaders-supports-joint-training-ukrainians/story?id=99458369

[Jon Banks]

Ukraine in unlikely to get F16s this year.

By this time next year, Americans will be focused on the 2024 election.

Big political gamble for Biden if the war worsens for Ukraine between now and then.